Japan vs American muscle

[Layla's Keeper]

Ahem? Muscle cars are uncomfortable? You've got to be kidding me. The big block Impalas, GTX's, Chargers, Torino Cobras, Galaxies, AMX's and later Javelins, Catalinas, Monte Carlos, Grand Prixs, GSX's, Wildcats, *takes a breath*, Bel Airs, Fairlanes, Furys, 300 letter series, Monacos, New Yorkers, C3 Corvettes, later C2 Corvettes, Monza Corvairs, GTO's, Gran Sports, high end Mustangs, and Cougars were all loaded to the gills with luxury options and many felt like you were driving your couch down the road at 60mph. Heck, the 1962 Impalas with the 409 could be had with optional tissue dispenser. Now that's luxury!

Now, if you had argued that the majority of imports have better interior fit and finish than the majority of domestic cars, you would've had some merit to the argument.

And by the way, the Camaro/Firebird is an import according to the US Government. It's built almost entirely in St. Therese, Quebec. Also, according to the US Government, the Honda Accord (assembled in Marysville, Ohio) is a domestic.

[DeViL]

Don't get into that Camaro is an Import and the Accord is a domestic thing, someone else explained corrected that pretty well either here or in another post. Is the Camaro imported through Canada yeah buts thats where you draw the line as far is it being called an import. The money goes back to a domestic company, therefore, domestic vehicle.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally posted by DeViL
Don't get into that Camaro is an Import and the Accord is a domestic thing, someone else explained corrected that pretty well either here or in another post. Is the Camaro imported through Canada yeah buts thats where you draw the line as far is it being called an import. The money goes back to a domestic company, therefore, domestic vehicle.

So the money that's being paid to Nissan's Tennessee plant workers are being paid to foreigners? What about Toyota's Georgia plant? What about Honda's various domestic plants?

[sameintheend01]

Originally posted by Neutrino



ok there is one big hole in your storry...the step down from the M3 (huge step dow but aside that) is an Integra Type R or at least GSR....but you went all the way to an LS

ahhh yes. When i went to the dealership, i didn't know anything about integras, literally. They only had 2 LS's. I know my BMW's backwards adn forwards. If i was to buy an M3, i would be driving it for a long time. The integra is just transportation for me until i'm outta my undergrad and then i can upgrade.

sorry bout that.

[Neutrino]

Originally posted by sameintheend01


ahhh yes. When i went to the dealership, i didn't know anything about integras, literally. They only had 2 LS's. I know my BMW's backwards adn forwards. If i was to buy an M3, i would be driving it for a long time. The integra is just transportation for me until i'm outta my undergrad and then i can upgrade.

sorry bout that.

ok cool

[Layla's Keeper]

Originally posted by carrrnuttt


So the money that's being paid to Nissan's Tennessee plant workers are being paid to foreigners? What about Toyota's Georgia plant? What about Honda's various domestic plants?

Exactly. In fact, most American auto workers who are working for foreign manufacturers go on record as saying they've been better treated and better paid working for Honda or Mazda than for General Motors or Ford. Which is true, considering I've been inside of both the Marysville, Ohio Honda Plant and the Ford Cleveland Motor Plant. The Honda plant is clean, relatively quiet, well lit, and work is done cheerfully and effectively. The workers I've talked to there tend to mention "job security" and "benefits" above anything else.

The Ford Plant, however, seems mired in the dank, dark stereotype of Post-Industrial Revolution America. It's noisy, dirty, and difficult to breath inside of. The Ford workers are more older gentlemen who're just waiting for retirement. When I spoke to them, they were more worried about the security of their pensions than ready to praise the corporation they worked for.

It's a different philosophy of business, and that's why quite frequently I feel that the foreign companies are better for workers. I live in a town where near 50% of the middle-aged men were or are GM or Ford workers. I see what was done for them (very little) and then see their undying loyalty to the manufacturers that employed them and can't help but have my faith shaken in American automobiles.

[DeViL]

No thats not what I meant I should of made that clearer. When you buy the car, the money is going towards that domestic or import company. The Camaro may be made in Canada but the car goes to a Chevrolet, domestic, dealership, and when a person buys that car, the money goes to Chevrolet, benefitting America. When someone buys an Acura, the money goes to Honda, benefitting Japan. Trade however benefits both countries, just in different ways. Honda gets paid for selling the car, and American employees have more job opportunities and get paid for making and selling the car.

Short term, Accords are still imports and Camaros are still domestics regardless of where they are produced.

[Layla's Keeper]

All right. I just bring it up because I tend to find this argument silly for one simple reason....

THEY'RE ALL CARS!

There are torquey brutish cars built in England (they call them Bentleys and TVR's). There are big V8's in Japan (Toyota Land Cruiser and Tundra). And there are peaky revvy engines in small nimble well-built cars here in the States (DOHC Neon, for instance). You can't pigeonhole cars by what country they come from, or even by the build philosophy.

Back in the 30's, Ettore Bugatti called the Bentley Speed Six "The world's fastest lorry". His cars were (for the day) technological masterworks compared to the squarish and dull Bentleys. Even still, both the Bugattis and the Bentleys fought hard with each other for overall wins around Europe. Bentley won Le Mans. Bugatti won many Gran Prix. But they were both excellent cars that won races against each other.

Two different philsophies both produced wonderful cars. I'd love to have them both in my garage. If this is the case, then why bother with arguing it?

[LjasonL]

Originally posted by ldelaysionl
I did not read any of this thread, but I would like to say that this argument is retarded. American cars are not "better" than Japanese cars, and vise versa. Cars are cars, and you have to look at them on an individual basis.

[DeViL]

I think we stopped arguing about cars a couple pages back though, don't really need all that. This topic just like every other one, got off topic hahah.

[DeViL]

The Ford Plant, however, seems mired in the dank, dark stereotype of Post-Industrial Revolution America. It's noisy, dirty, and difficult to breath inside of. The Ford workers are more older gentlemen who're just waiting for retirement. When I spoke to them, they were more worried about the security of their pensions than ready to praise the corporation they worked for.

Ya know I've never really even thought about that before. Most of these Ford, Chevy, and Dodge, dealerships are pretty cruddy looking when you step into where all the mechanics work. For instance Stohlman Oldsmobile down in Alexandria, that place was just like you said, noisy (all repair areas are going to be noisy), dark and filthy. It was recently taken over by Mercedes which cleaned the place up big time, its a lot cleaner now however the noise level has increased a lot more then before. Mainly because of the material they used around the place and the floors. Those people are going to all be deaf there in a few years. However that Oldsmobile dealership had been there for a very long time, it most likely dated back to the 50's or 60's. I would assume the place looked brand new back then as the Mercedes dealership looks now. However thats no excuse not to clean the place up after a good 45-60 years. Thats management for you they don't give a fuck what your work environment is like as long as your doing the job.

The Mercedes people that own it now don't have any much different of an attitude though. They will keep that place clean but not because they care about their workers, because they are high-class and there buyers wouldn't expect anything less then a clean environment when they step into the maintenance area. Oldsmobile didn't have to do any of that since their company isn't anything special or pricey like Mercedes, so of course they leave it looking like crap. I wouldn't put it past a Honda dealership doing the same thing after a good 40 years in the same dealership.

[RACER D12]

I know what you mean you go to any Benz or Bimmer dealership and their garages are spotless.......Maybe thats just because them germans make such sound cars

[DeViL]

Aye....rich Nazis they are.

[sameintheend01]

Originally posted by RACER D12
I know what you mean you go to any Benz or Bimmer dealership and their garages are spotless.......Maybe thats just because them germans make such sound cars

HAAAA. I put more oil in my benz than gas!

[Z Babe]

Originally posted by SR20DETpower
GO NISSAN !!!

lol

Yeah! Go Nissan!!! Not that I don't like the other makes, everyone (I've had my share also) . . . just a matter of personal preference. Mr. K is my hero! :angel: