Transmission disengages between 1st and 2nd

[spinktec]

1998 3.8 Windstar 147K. No previous indications of a problem. Problem occured 5 minutes into first drive of the day while pulling away from a stop. Vehicle pulled away normally through 1st gear, trans seemed to begin to shift into second gear, but just disengaged as if being shifted into neutral. Coasting down to to a stop reengaged 1st gear as if normal, but pulling away results in the same symptoms.

Reverse works normally. Selecting gear 1 holds in gear 1 normally. All other gear selections result in no shifts past first gear. Trans fluid looks normal, speedometer and tach operate normally, and no warning lights present on dash. Problem always present, not intermittant.

Any ideas?

[glennet404]

Hello-

The first place to start is by checking the fluid level. Could be your just low on fluid. If that's okay - how long has it been since your last transmission fluid/filter change. The consensus on this web site is at about every 20K - 30K miles you should be doing that maintenance. If you take care of those two issues and still have the problem - the next reasonable thing to do would be to replace the TRS (aka neutral safety switch). A faulty switch or connection can cause some pretty unusual symptoms - and not throw a code. After that the next most likely and least expensive would be to replace the shift solenoid 1. If you have experience maintaining your vehicle - you could do all those jobs in a long weekend for about 125 bucks.
If you did all that and still had the problem - you need to get to a transmission shop ( you may want to do this 1st depending on your level of experience) and go for a ride with the transmission analyzer hooked up and find out what the computer is doing while that tranny is fumbling for 2nd gear. If the computer is functioning properly then you more than likely have an internal issue and may be looking at a transmission rebuild.

Good Luck-
Glenn

[serge_saati]

Normally, when you select the 2nd gear on a Windstar, it should start in 2nd gear.
If it disengages suddenly in 2nd, or past the 1st gear in Drive, the problem is obviously the 2nd gear.

I don't think it's the TRS. Your torque converter seems to be good too.

Glenn says that it can be the shift solenoid 1-2, I think it's that. It's the 1st thing to check. Common failure also.

If it's not that, it can also be the 2nd gear piston clutch. But I doubt.

[spinktec]

Thanks.

A co-worker that is an ASE MM, although mostly GM products, suggested I try a wide open throttle through first gear to try to skip second gear. He has seen the sun ring on the the front planetary set strip in one catastropic moment (no slipage leading up to the event) causing 2nd, 4th, and reverse to be lost. In that situaton the PCM doesn't detect the failure until it sets a code for extended high RPM driving.

I tried WOT to 5800 rpm (44 miles per hour) and it didn't go into third.

More questions:
Is this an electric solenid or hydraulic solenoid?
How would I check it?
Does anyone have an ATSG schmatic for this transimission?

[glennet404]

I suggest you be VERY careful with the WOT test at 147K miles. You could be looking to replace the engine as well.

Check a recent thread from Jeckler on a hard 1 -2 shift. It will have all the solenoid information you need.

Glenn

[serge_saati]

Originally Posted by spinktec

Is this an electric solenid or hydraulic solenoid?

It's an electro-hydraulic solenoid. We are not in 15th century to have pure hydraulic system.

Originally Posted by spinktec

How would I check it?

It's located in the trans pan. Here's a photo of the precise location:



Your part is the 367a, at the left of the trans (the picture is mirrored from the reality) when you're facing the car.

To check it, you disconnect the wires, you apply current on it with the 12V battery, and you must hear a click noise.

Originally Posted by spinktec

Does anyone have an ATSG schmatic for this transimission?

Yes, there's the schema:



It's the shift solenoid 1.


If you want to skip the 1st gear, try that instead:

• Put in 1 manually.
• Go at 40 mph (not necessary WOT)
• Release the accelerator at 15%.
• Put in D directly.

You should get in 3rd.

[spinktec]

Excellent response, thanks. Looks like I have my Saturday worked out.

About the 15th century comment: I guess I deserved that, but I'm really not a dolt; I just don't take anything for granite. I manage a maintainabilty engineering group for an company that reverse engineers engines, trans, axles, electrical systems, phenumatic, and hydraulic systems for the US military.

I really appreciate the schematic and advice, thanks again.

[serge_saati]

I was just joking. LOL

[spinktec]

Originally Posted by serge_saati

I was just joking. LOL

I know, it had to be said.

BTW, How do you like your 99? I love my 98 and I don't know how I'd feel not having the huge driver door as a trade of the driver side sliding rear door on the 99. Unfortunately, the time is drawing near when I'll need to replace it and I don't know what mini van, ford or otherwise, I'll end up with.

[serge_saati]

I like the 99 very much. Very comfortable to drive, a lot of space inside. The driver door is not so small.

When you'll replace your van, I don't recommend you a Ford again. They looks very well, but they have very bad transmission that break often. I know many peoples who have their 04-05 Freestar 4.2L needed a transmission rebuild after 50k miles only.

I suggest you a new Toyota Sienna. At least you'll have something that last, you'll have the quality.

[12Ounce]

On the rear of the tranny case, there is a "lo-range" servo and a "hi-range" servo. Behind some heat schields. They are entire hydraulic units ... pistons, springs and seals. I had a failure with a circlip breaking in the lo-range servo. Possibly was a freak ... but gave symptoms similar to yours .. IIRC.

Not the easiest things to reach ... best to lower the rear of the sub-frame a bit.

[Gobowiec]

Have the same problem. Looks like this:
http://rapidshare.com/files/373797851/wolnobieg1.mp4
http://rapidshare.com/files/373797942/wolnobieg2.mp4
Oil level is OK, running about 17k miles. Previous change was made after 15k miles.
I called this a "freewheel" as I remember such clutch in oldie cars.
This happens only when engine/AT is cold. After a while (up to 1 mile) it starts to work without any problems. I heard (can't find post) that shift valve should be changed every 60k miles. wiswind - are you still using Auto RX?
The topic is quite old but maybe someone will write how problem was solved...

PS> I found this: http://www.aa1car.com/library/transm..._ford_ax4s.htm although theres no answer to topic, might be usefull...

[serge_saati]

Your transmission is done. The problem is not the second gear clutch, but the 1-2 piston clutch. Or maybe the 1-2 shift valve. It takes time to shift to the 2nd.

The original poster had replaced his Windstar by a Freestar. I think it's how he gets rid of the problem.

[Gobowiec]

I found that Ford recommends replacing EPC every 90kkm (60k miles). Could malfunction of EPC cause such problems and only when engine/AT is cold? As its getting warmer every day, the tranny starts to shift earlier.

[serge_saati]

No, I don't think it's the EPC. Cause this one controls the torque converter, which affect all gears, not just the second. TC is like the clutch of a manual car. You can't even run in 1st if it malfunctions.

In an automatic, you have many clutches bands, but it's not a clutch bands problem.
It doesn't slip. So I think it's a piston clutch problem. The one who activate the clutch bands.

Or the shift valve that activate the piston clutch.

I don't know why it happens only when it's cold. Maybe because there's more pressure when it's getting hot, so piston clutch activates more easily.