Lower Intake Manifold Gasket Replacement

[TheBackyardDIYer]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

I was just raising my sub-frame back in place ... it's been low by an inch or so while I replaced gaskets and balancer ... and "OOPS!".... I was wrong, the indicator/pointer for timing procedures is CCW (looking into the crank) of the crank position sensor by an inch or so.

I'm glad you told me that! I've been out there for over an hour trying to figure out how I can get my eyes on that spot! I was about to take off the crankshaft position sensor, but now I know I need to look elsewhere.

I took a couple of pictures I'm going to post in a minute, of marks that are on the pulley...I don't know which one would be the timing mark.

[TheBackyardDIYer]

OK, once I got in there and looked at where you were talking about, I finally realized what I was looking for. I didn't know what a "timing mark" looked like, but now I am assuming that it is that pyramid shaped thing beside the crankshaft position sensor. On the metal ring between the "belt part" and the "gear part" I found some marks that look like a ruler that go around that about an inch or a little more...that is on the edge, and directly on the back there is a green dot. I suppose that is the timing mark that I need to line up? As best as I can tell at TDC they are pretty close to matching. I couldn't get an exact TDC but extremely close and the marks are really close.

[TheBackyardDIYer]

I suppose this is the timing mark...



And this is the green dot I was talking about. You can faintly see the lines that look like ruler lines on the edge of that ring. There is also some oil coming out from behind it that you can see in this image...



Didn't see any cracks on the spark plugs...#2 had some white ashing on it, it's the only one that does...I can't tell if it's carbon or ash...if it's carbon that could indicate a faulty ignition system right?...In the picture from bottom to top left is 1, 2, 3 and from bottom to top right is 4, 5, 6...

[12Ounce]

Yes, those marks that look like a ruler are the ones you are interested in. There are usually some notes at each end of the "ruler" .... something like "10 BTC", "20 ATC", and sometimes it's hand scrawled gibberish (Japanese I suppose) ... but you need these numbers to see if TDC is to be in the middle of the ruler .... sometimes it is, sometimes its off-center. That's why its best to see if one of the marks aligns with the piston top-of-travel.
..... but if its anywhere on the ruler, you don't have a slipping harmonic balancer. You can forget this pursuit.
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BTW, I will be off-radar for a few days. Please don't do anything drastic 'til I get back to civilization. You are doing good work. Good if you get a chance to try a new ignition pack though....
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I'll be back Sunday evening or Monday.

[TheBackyardDIYer]

I'm going to try and talk to the manager tomorrow and see if I can get that coil pack...that is my last attempt. If that doesn't work, I'm out of ideas and knowledge of how to do anything else. Most anything else, I guess, would require the engine to come out and I don't have the capability of doing that...


Thanks for your help!

[12Ounce]

I'm not sure about the green dot.

[12Ounce]

Hold on .... don't lose faith! If the ignition pack doesn't do it ... we'll come up with something else. But the engine will not have to be removed ... I can pretty well promise that.

[Mustang_Driver]

I don't think you can adjust the timing on these vehicles as they are all computer controlled and to adjust the timing it would have to be done at a dealer or a mechanic that has the ability to re-program the PCM. do you have the haynes manual for your van if not PM me and let me know. i am trying as much as i can to help but until the problem is pinpointed you could just be throwing money into things that don't need to be replaced..

as for those marks you are seeing i thing those are for the crank position sensor, all these motors nowadays are non adjustable amd most problems are sensor related

[TheBackyardDIYer]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

Hold on .... don't lose faith! If the ignition pack doesn't do it ... we'll come up with something else. But the engine will not have to be removed ... I can pretty well promise that.

Well I hope we can figure something out...that is CHEAP!

[TheBackyardDIYer]

Originally Posted by Mustang_Driver

I don't think you can adjust the timing on these vehicles as they are all computer controlled and to adjust the timing it would have to be done at a dealer or a mechanic that has the ability to re-program the PCM. do you have the haynes manual for your van if not PM me and let me know. i am trying as much as i can to help but until the problem is pinpointed you could just be throwing money into things that don't need to be replaced..

Yeah, you can't adjust the timing manually, it is electronically controlled. We were just seeing if maybe the rubber part of the harmonic balancer had begun to fail causing the vibration, but it all lines up pretty closely to the timing marks.

And trust me, I don't plan on throwing any more money at this thing unless I know what exactly is wrong with it! Like I told 12Ounce, hopefully the manager at AutoZone will let me try that coil pack and bring it back if it doesn't work...he's usually pretty cool about stuff like that...You know, as long as the part doesn't get dirty or damaged.

No I don't have the Haynes manual...I chose to get a subscription to Alldata instead. Haven't decided which I like better. Alldata is hard to search and find exactly what you need sometimes, but it seems to have A LOT of information once you get in there and get to digging around.

[12Ounce]

One last thing before I hit the road: While you have the plugs out, and have the compression gauge, go ahead and establish #1 cylinder at top-of-stroke and on the compression stroke (or likewise, #5 cylinder at top-of-stroke and on exhaust stroke ... remember the crank revolves twice for one revolution of the cams) and at that point ... inspect the cam position sensor "wand". Its a bit of work because a coolant pipe got mounted in the way, but other than that it is pretty straight forward. This is an adjustable timing point and there is a little plastic tool to get it exact ... but if the wand is pretty much centered in the window you should be OK ... if it is not, grab the wrenches. If you want the plastic alignment tool ... it is often included in the box with a new sensor, surely your friend would let you borrow one of these.
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And while you have the sensor removed, drop some clean oil down around the synchronizer shaft ... this thing is pre-lube ... doesn't get any crankcase oil ... crazy!

[TheBackyardDIYer]

I changed out the coil pack today...no change. I still think it is the harmonic balancer. I went back and re-read Ed Strong's post about his harmonic balancer and it sounds IDENTICAL to my symptoms and problems.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul..._strong&page=4

[12Ounce]

Back.
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Yes, it could be the harmonic balancer ... but have you checked the cam position wand? That's a no cost check.

[12Ounce]

Another low cost check... take a short drive without the serpentine being on ... Of course, you have to "muscle-over" the absence of power steering ... but does the engine run better?

[TheBackyardDIYer]

Where is this said "wand?" Is it located under the black plastic part? I went out there the other day when you posted about it, but I didn't want to mess with it just in case...

I was actually about to take the belt off and check and see if it still happened...I was thinking about this the other day, but it's been raining until today.

I ordered a harmonic balancer from rock auto yesterday. When you change that thing, it only goes on and comes off one way right? It has a key slot so it can only be positioned one way on the shaft? So I won't have to find TDC correct...just take the old one off and put the new one on?