Windstar 96 - High NOx Emissions

[meta_nerd]

Originally Posted by floridatgp

have you checked fuel pressure

When I changed the fuel filter I had to release the pressure.
How would I go about checking the pressure? I dont have any special gauges.

Actually if it was the fuel pressure, wouldn't it be more of a constant problem. Why only when I stop does it cause the problem? I don't know much about this stuff so please correct me when I am wrong. Thanks


Chris

[gbic1]

Most of the time if it is only missing on one cylinder it is going to be some thing common to that cylinder and not something that affects all cylinders. I just ran accross a 4.0 aerostar with rough idle and missfire on 2 and 6 which are part of the same coil. After many checks we did a compression test to find both cylinders low on compression. Usually low fuel pressure will cause bad performance in slow accellaration and not a miss. I would lean toward a vacuum leak or plugged injector. You would need a fuel pressure gauge to test it correctly at the service port on the fuel rail.

[meta_nerd]

How could I test if it is an injector.

Also this is somthing I noticed too. When I am at idle and the car is all warmed up and running rough(misfire in Cyl #2) if I crank the power stering to its limit, the idle drops for a second and then catches itself from stalling.

Any Ideas as to why the power stering would cause this.
Hopefully it is a clue....

[gbic1]

Usually there is a pressure switch in the p/s line to kick the idle up so it does not stall on parking lot manuvers. To check injectors you can test resistance, but usually Ford injectors even pass this when they are bad or try swaping that injector in to a diffrent hole and see if the miss moves.

[meta_nerd]

Originally Posted by gbic1

Usually there is a pressure switch in the p/s line to kick the idle up so it does not stall on parking lot manuvers.

I have seen a post on this being a problem for someone. The reason this is probable is because my idler pully ceased up a few months ago and the belt flew off, I always wondered if it tore anything up. I will look into this. Do you know if the pressure switch is visible on the '96'. I will look tonight when my wife get home.

Originally Posted by gbic1

or try swaping that injector in to a diffrent hole and see if the miss moves.

Thanks, is swaping the injector a fairly easy task, or do I need special tools? I have a book, but was just looking for some experienced folks to shed some true light on the fact. These books never tell the truth of what is in store for you.

Thanks

CR

[meta_nerd]

Well,
did the injectors and man I have never seen such gunk. The first bank especially the 2 cyls furthest from the throtleBody were piled high with so much sludge I don't know how they were working at all....hmmmmm ... maybe they weren't .

Drove for about 35mins and havn't been able to reproduce the problem... so lets keep our fingers crossed. the real test will be tomorrow when it is warm out.

Thanks for the pointers... I will keep you informed of what happened.

Chris

[meta_nerd]

Just got a call from the wife - no problems today on her way to work. I think (and hope) it is fixed.

Thanks to everyone who helped... you all rock.

Since I accidently hijacked this thread,
Here is a recap for others who may have a similar problem:
Ford Windstar '96'
Problem -
At first, when comming to a complete stop (after the car was warm - especially the freeway) the Idle would get real rough and sometimes stall the car.
After I cleaned the EGR ports the car mysteriously passed smog and then went back to the same problem (80miles), only now after a few stops it would start misfiring in Cyl#2. I was getting a "Too Lean code" and "Misfire in cyl#2" and "Manufactur ?something?"(check previous posts for exact numbers and readouts).

Other things I noticed that may or may not be relavant-
Hills especially uphill would definately make the problem worse.
When I turned my stering to the limits it would cause the Idle to get worse.
The car didn't seem to have any problems when engine was cool, or if the outside air was below 60 Deg.F it would not misfire consistently at every stop.

Things I checked and replaced.
Plugs - replaced (mine were fine, wasn't neccessary).
MAF - replaced (don't think this was neccessary)
EGR ports - Cleaned them out.
Check EGR valve by applying vacume while car is idle... (stalls car = OK)
While missfiring open hood in dark and see if any arcing from wires or coil - mine were fine.
Feul Filter - replaced (good to do, but I don't think it was the prob).
Air Filter - replaced (good to do, but not the problem)
PCV - elbow was melted through - replaced.
IAC - removed and thuroughly cleaned (dont know if this did anything, in my posts it seemed to but then again it was a cold night and that might have been what I was experiencing)
Finally Pulled out Injectors and cleaned the hell out of 'em'.
This did the trick.

Well that was my journey in a nutshell. Hope no-one ever has this problem, but if you do I hope this helps.

Thanks again,

Chris

[DRW1000]

Glad to hear the problem is solved. Thanks for the summary in your last post. I am sure this thread will be referenced for a long time.

[meta_nerd]

Originally Posted by DRW1000

Glad to hear the problem is solved. Thanks for the summary in your last post. I am sure this thread will be referenced for a long time.

Thanks, and with a thread this long I figured a summary was neccessary. Good news is havn't had any problems since. Got a long trip planned this weekend, I guess it will be the final test.

[meta_nerd]

Final Note.

The problem came back after about 100 miles...

So I took off the upper intake and masked off all the electrical areas, then I cut and drilled wooden covers to bolt down and block the intake ports. Sprayed engine degreaser all over the engine and used a high pressure power washer to clean the block. Basically I wanted to clean the main manifold to make sure no more dirt could fall down into the injectors. Oh yeah... I also took out the injectors again and cleaned all of the sludge off of the o-rings etc.

Car has gone over 800 miles with no more errors pertaining to this problem. Did get a CEL but it was for low voltage and something else... I am assuming it is just loose or corroded connections from the cleaning. I will deal with this later and in a different thread if it doesn't fix easily.

Thanks again everyone....

[gbic1]

How do you think dirt is getting in injectors? The only you could get dirt in them would be through the fuel tank. Have you driven with no gas cap?

[wiswind]

I have mentioned a few times my experience with a misfire on one cylinder.....that ended up being crud inside the injector cap.....over the spray end of the fuel injector. I had been using fuel system cleaner on a regular basis (Redline Complete Fuel System Cleaner about 4 times a year). I was told by FORD technicians that this crud is NORMAL on any high mileage engine. The crud comes from the atomized fuel spray coming in contact with the EGR gasses and PCV oil vapors. This creates the buildup of crud. This will happen with even the best of gasoline, with periodic fuel system cleaners. Although periodic use of a quality fuel system cleaner is still HIGHLY recommended.

After I cleaned my injectors ends (required removal of the injector), my engine performance was greatly improved. I posted a link to my pictures in this thread.....which include pictures of the spray end of the injectors.

[meta_nerd]

Originally Posted by gbic1

How do you think dirt is getting in injectors? The only you could get dirt in them would be through the fuel tank. Have you driven with no gas cap?

Never driven without gas cap. And just to verify- the tip and actual injectors were not clogged, there was just a bunch of buildup on the body of the injectors (around the o-rings and such).

First of all, the engine block had about a quarter inch of oily dirty grime on it around the injectors on bank 1. I believe that when the engine got hot and expanded the injector&o-ring did not. And dirt&grime would be sucked into the injector port by some vacuum. When I removed the injectors to clean them I noticed that there was just a bunch of grime buildup along the body of the injector (not at the tip). However on Cyl 2 and 3 there was enough build-up that it may have interfered with the actual injector tip. Well, like I said, everything tested fine once I cleaned the block and the injector bodies. Never had to actually do anything to the tip of the injector (none were clogged or anything).

Chris