Motor fuels

[edwinn]

We had a discussion in another group about gasoline in the USA. I claimed my car ran better with Conoco 76 fuel out west than it did back east using cheap gas such as at 7-11. One guy said that gasoline all comes out of the same tanks and there's no real difference in brand-A vs brand-B. In other words, he claims that Phillips gas is the same as the stuff that's sold at 7-eleven. That was difficult for me to believe. What's your take?

I'm in north Virginia and recently switched to Sunoco 89 octane.


-Ed

[vgames33]

I can't say that I've ever noticed a difference from station to station.

[edwinn]

Originally Posted by vgames33

I can't say that I've ever noticed a difference from station to station.

I've been putting in 7-11 fuel, 87 grade and the vehicle ran ok around town but idled rough in the hot summer months, and recently it started to knock when stepping on the throttle at a traffic signal.

Driving to California last year (and back this year) I put in Conoco fuel, 87 grade and it ran GREAT, and ran good into the mountains to 7300' above sea level. In Ohio I put in BP gas and it idled very rough at the next highway exit. No more BP fuels thank you very much.

Someone in another forum suggested Sunoco (for Virginia driving) where there are FOUR grades to choose from. Now I'm using 89, and the prices have come down some.


-Ed

[shadows]

Originally Posted by edwinn

I've been putting in 7-11 fuel, 87 grade and the vehicle ran ok around town but idled rough in the hot summer months, and recently it started to knock when stepping on the throttle at a traffic signal.

Driving to California last year (and back this year) I put in Conoco fuel, 87 grade and it ran GREAT, and ran good into the mountains to 7300' above sea level. In Ohio I put in BP gas and it idled very rough at the next highway exit. No more BP fuels thank you very much.

Someone in another forum suggested Sunoco (for Virginia driving) where there are FOUR grades to choose from. Now I'm using 89, and the prices have come down some.


-Ed

you're fooling yourself
If any particular gas made a vehicle run different, like you say poor idle, it would be all over the internet and they'd be lucky to keep in business

I'd drive my 08 Escape, with the Volo VP 12, Ultra Gauge, to where you are- and you'd willingly bet me my vehicle would run very different on 3 different known fuels- like from 3 stations that have been in business for a couple years

make it worth my time- I'm presently getting 150% of the EPA Estimate MPG

[curtis73]

All gasoline must conform to ASTM standards. That means its basically all the same. It has to be. If its not and the inspector comes around, it could mean massive fines or losing their license.

What you may experience is individual climates and their different fuels. Colder climates tend to have larger percentages of Ethanol in them (up to 15%). Ethanol has less energy per unit and tends to cause the computer to inject greater amounts of fuel. Lower power output and lower MPGs can be the cause.

[edwinn]

Originally Posted by curtis73

All gasoline must conform to ASTM standards. That means its basically all the same. It has to be. If its not and the inspector comes around, it could mean massive fines or losing their license.

What you may experience is individual climates and their different fuels. Colder climates tend to have larger percentages of Ethanol in them (up to 15%). Ethanol has less energy per unit and tends to cause the computer to inject greater amounts of fuel. Lower power output and lower MPGs can be the cause.

The Riviera doesn't run too well on 7-eleven 87 octane fuel. It would knock when hitting the accelerator off traffic signals, hesitates in mid-acceleration (i.e. loose power momentarily) and idle roughly in HOT weather. Taking at tip from AF (this forum) I switched to Sunoco 89-octane. Sunoco has FOUR grades: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunoco

I found a chemical engineer (an older gent) on a career forum that knows all about the refineries, and he said that pipeline companies send shipments of fuel for major oil suppliers through their lines, and in between shipments the "mix" of fuel is diverted to tanks. That fuel gets shipped to economy stations like at quickmarts and grocery stores. (so he says)

During a trip out to California, I got a bad tank of BP fuel in Ohio along I-70 and the car idled terribly!! It was March and weather was wet, snowy and rainy. The fuel could have had water in it. Once west of the Mississippi River I was putting in Conoco 76 fuel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/76_(ConocoPhillips) and had no complaints whatsoever. It ran good, idled very smooth and climbed through mountains out west with no problem.

It's easy to find the gas station of your choice with an automotive GPS today.

Here are a couple aviation related promotional videos:

Phillips 66 Aviation - history
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0QbPhdgCsk


ConocoPhillips sponsors 2011 EAA Air Venture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45nhMGs8kz8


So in conclusion, the Buick is running ok with Sunoco 89 here in VA.


-Ed

[curtis73]

You cannot compare companies... compare locations. Period. This is like comparing food from two different restaurants. They both might get beef from the same supplier, but how they store it and prepare it is totally different.

There might be a 7-11 on the east side of town with brand new stainless steel tanks, 15 pumps, and a huge volume of fuel going through them. On the other side of town there might be a 7-11 with old steel tanks that are rusty, possibly cracked and letting water in, and their 4 pumps mean that the fuel sits a long time getting stale and wet.

The brand of fuel is not as important as the station. I have spent the last 25 years buying fuel from the cheapest station and have never had an issue. The cheapest station is not only helping your wallet, but since everyone goes there the fuel is the freshest.

Gasoline is gasoline - period. If you've had to change to higher octane fuel, the problem isn't the gasoline, its the car.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by curtis73

You cannot compare companies... compare locations. Period. This is like comparing food from two different restaurants. They both might get beef from the same supplier, but how they store it and prepare it is totally different.

There might be a 7-11 on the east side of town with brand new stainless steel tanks, 15 pumps, and a huge volume of fuel going through them. On the other side of town there might be a 7-11 with old steel tanks that are rusty, possibly cracked and letting water in, and their 4 pumps mean that the fuel sits a long time getting stale and wet.

The brand of fuel is not as important as the station. I have spent the last 25 years buying fuel from the cheapest station and have never had an issue. The cheapest station is not only helping your wallet, but since everyone goes there the fuel is the freshest.

Gasoline is gasoline - period. If you've had to change to higher octane fuel, the problem isn't the gasoline, its the car.

Good points, for the most part. I would agree gasoline is largely a commodity. Independent stations, such as 7-11 buy fuel from major refineries, so their fuel is much the same.

I have noticed some difference here (central Canada) with Shell and Sunoco. Shell fuels smells quite different than everyone else (to me anyways) , and I suspect is coming from their own refineries and their own crude sources.

I have a number of older cars with high compression engines (10.5:1) and no electronic controls to mask or compensate for fuel quality. They are VERY sensitive to octane, and WILL ping on all premium fuels from all brands except Sunoco and Shell, regardless of location. Sunoco seems to work better than Shell.

So to sum up, (at least in central Canada) Sunoco and Shell have some slight differences..... everyone else appears to be identical.

[auto_guy87]

I've personally never noticed a difference in my car's performance based on the station I fill up at. It has to meet ASTM standards before it's shipped out, like someone else mentioned. I guess it's possible though that certain shady gas stations later add water to their gas though. I've heard of that happening, but don't know for sure that it's true.