Mounting repair bills on my 2 older cars

[ike529az]

2003 Hyundai Sonata - 129k miles paid $2300- 2 1/2 years ago // 1996 Buick Park Avenue 116k miles - just bought one month ago for $2000- I lived in New York City so I never needed a car. When I moved hereto Cleveland, Ohio I thought it would be cheaper to buy 2 used cars from my mechanic rather than have a new car with a big down payment and big monthly payment for 6 years. Also, if one car was in the shop, I would never be without a car. However, I'm finding the repair bills are adding up and it almost seems like it might be cheaper to just sell these 2 cars and use the $ for a down payment. I saw at least six well rated 2012-13 cars priced in the 13K range with only 10,000 miles on them getting 26/39 mpg. A 5 year loan would be approx. $175/mo. My 1996 Buick will probably need a lot of repairs moving forward. Maybe my mechanic is not my "friend" -- he sells me cheap cars knowing he'll make $ as well as the regular $300 repair bills. Right now the Sonata has a pending $400 front axle repair needed. The Buick which I just bought already has a temp. programmer control problem which will run at least $300. If this were you, what would you do? My question is should I keep these 2 cars or just buy a new car? Thanks

[MightyMaxxedOut]

Originally Posted by ike529az

2003 Hyundai Sonata - 129k miles paid $2300- 2 1/2 years ago // 1996 Buick Park Avenue 116k miles - just bought one month ago for $2000- I lived in New York City so I never needed a car. When I moved hereto Cleveland, Ohio I thought it would be cheaper to buy 2 used cars from my mechanic rather than have a new car with a big down payment and big monthly payment for 6 years. Also, if one car was in the shop, I would never be without a car. However, I'm finding the repair bills are adding up and it almost seems like it might be cheaper to just sell these 2 cars and use the $ for a down payment. I saw at least six well rated 2012-13 cars priced in the 13K range with only 10,000 miles on them getting 26/39 mpg. A 5 year loan would be approx. $175/mo. My 1996 Buick will probably need a lot of repairs moving forward. Maybe my mechanic is not my "friend" -- he sells me cheap cars knowing he'll make $ as well as the regular $300 repair bills. Right now the Sonata has a pending $400 front axle repair needed. The Buick which I just bought already has a temp. programmer control problem which will run at least $300. If this were you, what would you do? My question is should I keep these 2 cars or just buy a new car? Thanks

I got this question many times over the years when I wrote dealership service. Because there is so much money involved, folks want to choose the right answer, obviously. But the truth is there is no universal right answer because there are so many variables that go into the answer to the question. Yes, you should sell them and get a newer car. No you should not sell them to get a newer car. Either answer can be correct for you depending on an untold number of variables and specific circumstances. What is the overall mechanical condition of both of the cars? What are your DIY skills? WHAT IS YOUR FINANCIAL situation at this very moment? Will it change for the better or worse in the near future? What are your vehicle needs? Now and in the future? See what I mean? The only right answer is the one that is tailored to your specific needs and circumstances.
But I will tell you this- owning two cars (paid for or not) is costing you more than it really should. I can appreciate the philosophy of 'needing' two older cars as opposed to only one newer one. Instead of repairs and insurance for one, you are paying for two. Cars need to be driven or else they deteriorate much much faster than you think. One car is enough unless you have a family but even then if there is a 'stay at home' spouse you can generally eek by with only one car. (At least for a short time). I could ramble on forever with different scenarios but suffice to say only you can answer your question.
My advice to you is this- sell one of the cars and keep the one that is is the best mechanical condition RIGHT NOW. Both cars have good longevity and use the money from the sale of one to get the needed repairs on the other. The 3800 V-6 in the Buick has been named one of the best engines of the entire 20th century...I kid you not. Its a long lived motor with great economy for it's power. I routinely saw those motors with 300,000+ miles when I was writing service. Hyundai's are good cars too. Ask specific questions and I will be more than happy to answer them as best as I can. Good luck.

Scroll to the bottom of this page to see the best of the 20th century.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...0_Best_Engines

[ike529az]

I only drive local - 9000 miles at the most.That makes sense, selling one to cut double repairs / 2 registrations - I only pay an extra $20 for ins. on the 2nd car though. My current mechanic has a small shop with his son. He is 2 mins. away, good, honest and popular therefore, he is slow getting my car back to me after a repair. I can't be without a car for 5 days waiting for him to return the car, that's why I have 2. He even lets me get my parts online and just charges me labor when possible which is rare and saves me money. I got a referral from a friend to another mechanic who is well respected, but 30 mins. away. He's more efficient and faster. I'm having him check out the overall condition of both cars. I have to be honest, That Sonata has been in and out of the shop. Right now it has 2 broken front axles with a price tag of $400 and my mechanic said something on the back end was going. I hear you on the Buick having a great engine but I am still concerned about having to replace one part after the next as it falls apart from age, after all it is almost 20 years old! I may be entirely wrong because I have no auto repair or car experience since I lived in New York City my whole adult life and did not need a car. I say that from my experience with the 20 year old Prism and I understand its not in the same class as the Buick Park Avenue. I guess what I'm saying is that I really don't feel comfortable with either of these cars as longer term options. I do like the idea of just one car. Perhaps I can switch to the new mechanic that can get me my car back faster and be ok with being without the car 1 or 2 days when it needs repairs. Another idea I have is selling both which will bring in $4500, and maybe putting up / getting a loan of $1000 or $2000 (I could get a lot more or charge but I don't want to) and upgrade to a better car that is LESS likely to have as many repairs as these 2 (I realize there are no guarantees and it could have issues as well). What do you think?

[MightyMaxxedOut]

Originally Posted by ike529az

I only drive local - 9000 miles at the most.That makes sense, selling one to cut double repairs / 2 registrations - I only pay an extra $20 for ins. on the 2nd car though. My current mechanic has a small shop with his son. He is 2 mins. away, good, honest and popular therefore, he is slow getting my car back to me after a repair. I can't be without a car for 5 days waiting for him to return the car, that's why I have 2. He even lets me get my parts online and just charges me labor when possible which is rare and saves me money. I got a referral from a friend to another mechanic who is well respected, but 30 mins. away. He's more efficient and faster. I'm having him check out the overall condition of both cars. I have to be honest, That Sonata has been in and out of the shop. Right now it has 2 broken front axles with a price tag of $400 and my mechanic said something on the back end was going. I hear you on the Buick having a great engine but I am still concerned about having to replace one part after the next as it falls apart from age, after all it is almost 20 years old! I may be entirely wrong because I have no auto repair or car experience since I lived in New York City my whole adult life and did not need a car. I say that from my experience with the 20 year old Prism and I understand its not in the same class as the Buick Park Avenue. I guess what I'm saying is that I really don't feel comfortable with either of these cars as longer term options. I do like the idea of just one car. Perhaps I can switch to the new mechanic that can get me my car back faster and be ok with being without the car 1 or 2 days when it needs repairs. Another idea I have is selling both which will bring in $4500, and maybe putting up / getting a loan of $1000 or $2000 (I could get a lot more or charge but I don't want to) and upgrade to a better car that is LESS likely to have as many repairs as these 2 (I realize there are no guarantees and it could have issues as well). What do you think?

First general rule to remember- it is always ALWAYS less costly to maintain a car as opposed to buying new every 5 years. And, cars last a whole lot longer than people are willing to give them credit for. Case in point..I bought my Mighty Max pick-up new in 1988 and still have it. 350,000 miles later and I still have it. It needs a few minor repairs and that's it. I can drive it from North Carolina to California right now. Working at dealers for 20 years taught me thing or two about servicing, buying and selling them. The advice I give you you can take to the bank.
I would never recommend to anyone to buy new. EVER. Simply because depreciation is so costly. If you are an informed used car buyer you can find a car that is just like new at the bottom of the depreciation curve. (Around 8 years old for most cars...the depreciation has bottomed out at that time.)
Second general rule- "near luxury" cars are your best buys in the used car market. Acura, Lincoln, Infiniti, Lexus, Buick etc. In today's dollars a car that had an MSRP of 40-50K new. Cars with a 20K sticker price (or less) new are just not going to be a good buy at 8 years old because the owner body of those cars are people that are just not made of gold. LOL. They are used up at 8 years old and 150k. They just are. Your Hyundai falls into that category. On the other hand a near luxury or high line European import will be fastidiously maintained at the dealer because they were bought new by higher income people. A Lincoln would normally have been bought by retirees...garage kept...those folks have nothing better to do than take the car in for every tiny squeak or other noise. And they pay to get them fixed.
Third general rule. Never buy a used car that doesn't have a service history. CarFax is for the low information general car buying public that doesn't know any better. I can't overemphasize this so I'll say it again. NEVER BUY A USED CAR WITHOUT A PAPER SERVICE HISTORY. No matter how good the deal appears, walk away. To go along with that, pay an hour's worth of labor at a dealer of that particular make to have a 'pre-purchase inspection'. It will cost you an hour's labor at a dealer but has the potential to save you thousands down the road. The best mechanics are at the dealers. (Or they got most of their experience at dealers...they just got tired of doing warranty work that doesn't pay jack except Mercedes-Benz.) And nobody knows that make and model of car like they do. Ask for the "most experienced" guy to do the inspection. He will usually be a white haired dude.
All that said, you can sell both and get a 2007-2008 near luxury used car. Lincolns are great because they do not carry the premium a Lexus or Acura does. They are a Ford...therefore they depreciate like a Ford does. Fords are the used car buyers best friend. LOL. Buicks are a great used car buy too. They are a cut above the average domestic in quality.
In 2011 I bought a 2005 Lincoln LS V8 from the original owner for $8500. Retired military, his wife drove it. It was like brand new with 89,000 miles, mostly interstate. When I opened the passenger doors to inspect the car, it had spider webs in the door jambs. I'm like "now I like that..." In other words this car had an easy life. The car had the original window sticker with the paperwork- it had an MSRP of $40,000. See what I mean?
With your budget you can land a primo like new used car for $7000 dollars- I did just that. I just splurged and got a Lincoln.

Any questions just holla.

[Levithan9]

I work as a auto technician. Been one for 16 years. When I buy a car to sell, people start blowing up my phone. I usually spend about 2 months getting it ready to sell. I work on them on my days off, and I make sure it's a car I'd sell to my mom. I don't do it for the money, I do it because I enjoy working on car on MY TIME!!

I usually sell the car for a little more than its worth, but the people who buy from me know that the car is not going to have any major problems with it down the road.

I sold 2 cars this year, a2003 Acura TL Type-S with 250,000 miles of it for $4,000; and a 2001 Honda Civic for $3,000. In both cars, I did the timing belt, water pump, idler and tensioner pulleys, coolant flush, power steering flush, evac and recharge the A/C system, new fuel ,air and cabin filters, a complete interior cleaning using a hot water extractor and steam cleaner, and a full paint correction, which usually takes about 2 weeks to get it done right.

I sold both cars within 3 days of putting them up for sale.

Perhaps your mechanic friend should invest a little more, and charge a little more for decent rides.

[ike529az]

I like your idea, its smart. I checked Kelly Blue book on some 07-8 Lincolns. They fell in your suggested price range. Of course, when I checked the Cleveland, Ohio dealer prices, they were way over - no surprise. Maybe I'm wrong but perhaps one factor is how many miles is on the car that you can live with. The 2007 Town car with 85000 miles came in at an avg. price of $8500. The 2006 Zephyr came in at $9000 with 85000 miles. Not many of the LS models - saw a 2005 one for $7000 with 73000 miles. I noticed these models are in the 17/24 mpg range. Any suggestions on Buick models - perhaps ones with better mileage? Do you still think the Lincoln would be your 1st choice even with the lower fuel economy? Thanks!

[ike529az]

Found this Infinity G35 X - $8656 - 92351 miles - if its gone, there will be others...
I could sell my 2 cars for around $4500 and come up with another $500 to make $5000. get a 4 or 5 year loan for the balance. Of course, I'd get the bigger loan til I sold the cars then just pay off some of the loan and change it to a 4 year loan at $89 a month. I can't see letting the dealer give me only $1000 or $500 for each of the cars as a trade in when I could sell them privately for more. Then I'd have just one quality car with a small payment for 4 years and not have to worry about 2 beaters constantly in the shop. This car still has:
Manufacturer's Original Warranties
Basic 4 Years/60,000 Miles
Drivetrain 6 Years/70,000 Miles
Corrosion 7 Years/Unlimited Miles
Roadside Assistance 4 Years/60,000 Miles
What do you think? I could start selling one of these cars now...probably the Sonata.

[MightyMaxxedOut]

Originally Posted by ike529az

I like your idea, its smart. I checked Kelly Blue book on some 07-8 Lincolns. They fell in your suggested price range. Of course, when I checked the Cleveland, Ohio dealer prices, they were way over - no surprise. Maybe I'm wrong but perhaps one factor is how many miles is on the car that you can live with. The 2007 Town car with 85000 miles came in at an avg. price of $8500. The 2006 Zephyr came in at $9000 with 85000 miles. Not many of the LS models - saw a 2005 one for $7000 with 73000 miles. I noticed these models are in the 17/24 mpg range. Any suggestions on Buick models - perhaps ones with better mileage? Do you still think the Lincoln would be your 1st choice even with the lower fuel economy? Thanks!

I like our mechanic poster friend- he is a 'helpful soul' car guy also. He uses his knowledge, experience and passion for cars to help others. You're awesome dude!
Lincoln 101- (And Mercury) Lincoln was sorting out it's identity in the mid-2000s therefore there was some major model shuffling going on. But rewind first to the late 90s- The Lincoln LS debuted when Ford owned Jaguar- the DEW98 platform it was based on along with the 'new' Thunderbird- was a worldwide platform that had it's design DNA that came from Volvo(?) and therefore was as safe and sturdy as a tank. In addition Jaguar's overall sporty driving characteristics was firmly entrenched in the car too. The LS was Ford's attempt to go head to head with the best European sports sedans like the BMW 5 series. They pulled it off IN SPADES but for 1000s less. Out of all the cars I have ever owned, the 2005 LS was the fining driving car I ever had. Near perfect 50/50 weight distribution, very small turning radius, independent rear suspension...it all resulted in a package that was stellar and sooooooo easy to live with day to day. All cars should drive that well. Really.
The problem was the car was so outside the typical 'floaty boaty' image of Lincoln, it became less and less of a viable sales model for FoMoCo. So Ford went the route of a FWD midsize. (The Zephyr which became the MKZ with a name change was actually sold side by side at Lincoln dealers in the LS's last year which was 2006.) There was a major update in 2003 which makes the 2003-2006 better cars overall. But the MKZ will be easier to find no doubt. The counterpart in the FoMoCo model hierarchy was the Mercury Milan. (Mercurys are a great buy too since they are a defunct car brand that can be serviced at a Ford dealer, tire stores, or independents. Plus they are cut above the average Ford in features and quality like Buick is to GM.) Grand Marquis the same story. Safe tanks with incredible durability and reliability built it. The mileage is not bad with a V-8 either. But if you want to go with a smaller engine, I suggest gravitating towards a Sable 2008-2009- the interiors of those cars are huge or a 2006-2009 Mercury Milan, either in a I4 or V-6. (Consumer Reports ranked these on their most reliable list in 2006 and remember they still have the benefit of depressed Ford re-sale value. Here is the link for the NADA- every sales manager at every dealer in the U.S.has one of these in his pocket. The value guides are pretty similar but this one is the gold standard of values-
http://www.nadaguides.com/
Buick 101- The Buick Lacrosse 2005-2009 (most have the 3800 Series III except the top of the line CXS trim which have the DOHC 3.4) and I've showed you how the 3800 is one of the best motors out there.) and Buick Lucerne 2006-2008 are the cars here. If you want a little more room you will appreciate the Lucerne over the Lacrosse. Both are great cars. Really good economy for the day to day driving power they provide.
An Acura is a higher price Honda and an Infinity is a higher priced Nissan. Same with Lexus- they are a higher priced Toyota. I would need to do some quick research to see which models are the best choices but suffice to say those Japanese models will cost you a little more on the used car market. The only cars I have first hand experience with are the Lexus ES 300/350 only because they are a re-badged Toyota Camry. I worked as a Toyota adviser for 5 years so I have real world experience with Toyotas. Those Hondas and Toyotas have steller resale value for a reason- they are super reliable cars that translates to used car value. But a person with insider knowledge knows what domestics have reliability that rivals the best Japanese cars and can pocket the difference. Savvy?

More later.

[ike529az]

After reading your helpful comments, I looked at 3 car sale sites, including in my search all the models you mentioned. It appears that generally speaking, the price tag for a car with 75000-90000 miles is $8000-9000. I don't need a big car - its just me. I'd be happy with a smaller car with the quality and parameters you mentioned with decent gas mileage - it doesn't have to be 30 miles a gallon city... I saw another Infiniti G35. Its at $8500 with 69,000 miles - here's a pic (attachment). I'll tell you - it looks awesome - the mileage is pretty low, its a later model ->2008 and its one of the cars you picked. Do these exotic cars cost more for maintenance and repairs? I'm surprised it doesn't get better fuel economy for a smaller car (18/24 mpg) when compared say, to a Lincoln Town car. Is this the kind of car you would grab and call it a day, if it passed the pre-purchase requirements that you wrote about in your earlier post? Thanks!

[MightyMaxxedOut]

Originally Posted by ike529az

After reading your helpful comments, I looked at 3 car sale sites, including in my search all the models you mentioned. It appears that generally speaking, the price tag for a car with 75000-90000 miles is $8000-9000. I don't need a big car - its just me. I'd be happy with a smaller car with the quality and parameters you mentioned with decent gas mileage - it doesn't have to be 30 miles a gallon city... I saw another Infiniti G35. Its at $8500 with 69,000 miles - here's a pic (attachment). I'll tell you - it looks awesome - the mileage is pretty low, its a later model ->2008 and its one of the cars you picked. Do these exotic cars cost more for maintenance and repairs? I'm surprised it doesn't get better fuel economy for a smaller car (18/24 mpg) when compared say, to a Lincoln Town car. Is this the kind of car you would grab and call it a day, if it passed the pre-purchase requirements that you wrote about in your earlier post? Thanks!

Nissans and (therefore Infiniti of couse) seem to get a scoche more horsepower out of their motors. That may make them a tad bit more thirsty. This is probably due to their involvement in world sports car endurance racing back in the 80s and 90s. Just an observation on my part.
The only cars that you pay through the nose servicing are "high line" European imports. M-B, BMW, Jaguar etc. plus the exotic sports cars from Italia. It's only a matter of time before the German high line cars cause you to "lay down on the railroad tracks." The near luxury Asian brands are really no more for labor for the equivalent badge engineered nameplate although the hourly labor rate and possibly an equivalent part may reflect a premium for that particular brand. Lexus will have a higher hourly rate than Toyota for example. The service experience for Lexus is stellar though...you get what you pay for.
Here's a tip- take a long weekend (if possible of course) and go to Florida or southern Georgia to buy the car. The deep south cars are not subject to much if any road salt like the midwest and northeast is. If you do that, you will end up with a 5-8 year head start on the 'tin worm'. I am less concerned about the body than I am about the suspension and chassis. Metal brake and fuel lines...steering components...road salt takes a toll on all that stuff. My brother routinely makes a trip to California to buy cars- because of the mild salt free climate. He visits our cousins, buys a car and enjoys a drive home back to Chicago.
The profit margin on late model used cars at dealers is enormous- 2-3000 or even more per car. Bottom line- buy from a private seller if you can and pocket the difference. I bought my Lincoln LS from a Craigslist ad. Just insist on service records and have it checked out by a dealer mechanic for that particular brand...that's all you need to do.
The G35 is a good choice BTW.

[ike529az]

Gotcha - I agree with you on the dealers. That's why I went the used route in the first place went I got here from NYC. The problem was I never owned a car so I had no knowledge of buying the "right" used cars and I've paid for it repeatedly and I'm still paying. There are 3 repairs needed between the 2 cars right now that will cost close to $1000.00 - broken front axles on the Sonata - broken temp.controller programmer on the Buick and a future fuel line issue with the Sonata.The famous NBA basketball coach Jeff van Gundy said you have to do something to get yourself out of your dilemma, so here I am.

I didn't mean to move our target approach towards the dealers. Why pay the premium with them plus when they quote a price, your actual net out the door price will be very different after all those lines and boxes of incidental charges and fees they have to maximize their profit. When I went in and did searches on Kelly Blue Book, Autotrader and Cars.com and checked only the box: Buy used car from private seller, I still got only dealer cars for sale - literally no private sellers - I don't get it. I'll go to Craigslist and also check those grocery store circulars with cars for sales.

What is the protocol when you're face to face with a private seller concerning getting it checked out by a dealer mechanic before buying from them? I would assume people might take issue with handing the keys over to a stranger. I'm sure there's a standard acceptable way of doing it - they want the cash!

I like the southern trip to knock out the salt damage to the car. I would do it. Georgia's 789 miles / 12 hour drive - that's a nice scenic 8 hrs. w/a quick Red Roof sleepover then finish the other 4 or 5 , it would be fun. I could also just fly one way - rent a a car stay there a couple of days - - buy one there and drive it back.

The reason I keep bringing up the fuel economy is because the 1996 Geo Prism that recently died was my main car for a long time and it got 31/35mpg. I have sticker shock when I see 15-16-17-18 mpg city.(Infinity G35 - 18/24mpg) I could live with even something at 20. I'll look again at the pool of cars, but I don't think any of them are over 20... Perhaps the better car quality negates the gas premium, I need help on that one. If you say the quality trumps the gas mileage, then I'll stay with this this pool of cars unless any other ones come to mind that are high quality but have a little better fuel economy. If not, The Infinities seem to be the higher end luxury quality you described. They're smaller which means they're easier to park. I'll tell you, I'm single and they're pretty good looking. They're over my price range but still manageable and worth it in the long run.
If a dealer is selling a 08 Infinity with 69,000 miles for $8500. I wonder what a private seller is gonna sell it at? Although they tend to know what they're worth and price them high - what would you offer them say over Kelly blue book "good condition" price if the car was in "good condition?" It would vary I guess, they might be cash strapped or wanting to just wait and make a nice profit.

[MightyMaxxedOut]

Originally Posted by ike529az

Gotcha - I agree with you on the dealers. That's why I went the used route in the first place went I got here from NYC. The problem was I never owned a car so I had no knowledge of buying the "right" used cars and I've paid for it repeatedly and I'm still paying. There are 3 repairs needed between the 2 cars right now that will cost close to $1000.00 - broken front axles on the Sonata - broken temp.controller programmer on the Buick and a future fuel line issue with the Sonata.The famous NBA basketball coach Jeff van Gundy said you have to do something to get yourself out of your dilemma, so here I am.

I didn't mean to move our target approach towards the dealers. Why pay the premium with them plus when they quote a price, your actual net out the door price will be very different after all those lines and boxes of incidental charges and fees they have to maximize their profit. When I went in and did searches on Kelly Blue Book, Autotrader and Cars.com and checked only the box: Buy used car from private seller, I still got only dealer cars for sale - literally no private sellers - I don't get it. I'll go to Craigslist and also check those grocery store circulars with cars for sales.

What is the protocol when you're face to face with a private seller concerning getting it checked out by a dealer mechanic before buying from them? I would assume people might take issue with handing the keys over to a stranger. I'm sure there's a standard acceptable way of doing it - they want the cash!

I like the southern trip to knock out the salt damage to the car. I would do it. Georgia's 789 miles / 12 hour drive - that's a nice scenic 8 hrs. w/a quick Red Roof sleepover then finish the other 4 or 5 , it would be fun. I could also just fly one way - rent a a car stay there a couple of days - - buy one there and drive it back.

The reason I keep bringing up the fuel economy is because the 1996 Geo Prism that recently died was my main car for a long time and it got 31/35mpg. I have sticker shock when I see 15-16-17-18 mpg city.(Infinity G35 - 18/24mpg) I could live with even something at 20. I'll look again at the pool of cars, but I don't think any of them are over 20... Perhaps the better car quality negates the gas premium, I need help on that one. If you say the quality trumps the gas mileage, then I'll stay with this this pool of cars unless any other ones come to mind that are high quality but have a little better fuel economy. If not, The Infinities seem to be the higher end luxury quality you described. They're smaller which means they're easier to park. I'll tell you, I'm single and they're pretty good looking. They're over my price range but still manageable and worth it in the long run.
If a dealer is selling a 08 Infinity with 69,000 miles for $8500. I wonder what a private seller is gonna sell it at? Although they tend to know what they're worth and price them high - what would you offer them say over Kelly blue book "good condition" price if the car was in "good condition?" It would vary I guess, they might be cash strapped or wanting to just wait and make a nice profit.

The gas mileage that the hybrids and subcompacts get tends to give folks a sense of wishful thinking when car shopping. My truck only gets 16-17 in town low 20s on flat level highway terrain. It's because it's carburated- one of the last carburated vehicles ever made. On the plus side repairs cost peanuts...a "mere bag of shells" as Ralph Kramden used to say on The Honeymooners. Haha. One caveat on the near luxury cars- a lot of them require 93 octane premium fuel. My LS did. So keep that in mind when you are considering the various models. The Lincoln 'only' got around 16-18 in town but let me tell you- that thing was faster than blue blazes and would reach close 150MPH within a minute if you floored it and kept it there. Everything is a trade-off. You are just use to the MPGs of a Prism...right? *wink* It got good MPGs but I would not want to drive it across country- no way. Everything is a compromise. When dealing with a private owner, most will not object to having it checked out by a qualified mechanic. As a buyer, it is your choice as to who and which one is used. Don't fall for the seller selling you on his mechanic. An obvious conflict of interest could arise there. He just won't hand the keys over though. LOL. He will probably insist on accompanying you and to be honest he is a dumbbell if he doesn't. Time for football. Be back shortly.

[ike529az]

Ravens beating Panthers 28 to 10 in the 4th, no surprise...
I'll table the fuel economy for now.
I will go for the white haired dealer mechanic.
I checked the Infinity as an example on the fuel. Some said premium, some said regular unleaded - guess it will depend on the model.
This is probably the most important question I will ask you. Say I found an Infinity for $8500 with ok mileage from a private seller tomorrow - took it down to the white haired dealer mechanic and he gives his nod of approval. My inclination would be to take out a loan for $8000 and just buy the car. Then I would take to selling the 2 cars I own. My 2003 Hyundai Sonata is worth $2500 and the 1996 Buick Park Avenue is worth $2000. I could apply that towards the loan balance and then refinance for say $3500. 4 years would $75/mo. - 3 years would be $99/mo. I like the shorter term to get payments out of the way to then have cash available for any repairs that may come. Because I have these pending repairs on these 2 cars I kinda have to make a decision. Nobody wants to drive around with broken front axles! (the Sonata) I suppose I could drive the Buick, but that has the temp. controller beeping non-stop which needs repair as well. I understand its my call and I will decide myself at the end of the day, but if you were in this situation with your car knowledge, what would you do? I think it makes sense to avoid wasting any more money on these 2 cars.

[MightyMaxxedOut]

Just to let you know- I have not had a car loan since 1988. (The new (demonstrator with 5400 miles) Mighty Max.) Everyone should have the joy of a brand new car once in their life. JMHO. Back in the day, you bought a car and just paid a monthly payment until the coupon book was gone. Then the average car buyer would quit doing repairs due to age and mileage until they were forced to get another new car. Lather rinse repeat. Buying used mitigates that to a great degree yes that's true but I am old school to the core. I have the same values as someone who lived through the depression. Rebuild, recycle re-use. Use it until it turns to dust. LOL. That's just me. What you ask of me is just a foreign perspective to me. I didn't even know you could refinance cars just like you could a home. Simply because that need never arose for me. It bears mentioning that I spent ALL of my time in service. No time in sales or F & I (finance and insurance.) It sounds as though you have a good plan as far as that goes though. I am not the one to give advice in that regard, but your own financial homework looks to be plenty adequate. I will certainly agree that there comes a point to where you are throwing good money after bad. Cut your losses- I agree whole heartedly. As far as fuel requirements, they vary within a brand for specific models. Find a site that gives reviews and specs for a specific model, it will vary within the brand. (The Lincoln Town car used regular unleaded, the Lincoln LS required premium unleaded. Depends on the model.) My perspective is from the world of new car dealers. That's just how my life played out. Dealers have a bad reputation in general, but to be fair the vast majority of dealership personnel are just people making a living like you and me. From the very beginning back in the "black and white days" the dealers learned how to make a regular profit...they had to to stay in business. Nobody goes in business to lose money. Dealers are no different. They make their money with "fluff"- extended warranties, paint protection packages, and other junk of dubious value that gives the car buyer "peace of mind". What a crock. You will still have to pump gas in the rain, change flat tires etc. "Peace of mind" to me is stretching your buying and servicing dollars. I can help you on the servicing end. You seem to have a good handle on the 'financial' buying end. I can help on the 'servicing' buying end. Make sense?
The reason you only got dealers instead of private sellers from those sites you listed is because (I think) those sites are subsidized(?) by the auto industry. It is in their best interest to steer you towards dealers. I will also add that the Kelly Blue Book values are normally too high. They are 'pie in the sky' for the most part. Stick with the NADA. It is more realistic measure of true market value. For example I don't think that Sonata is worth $2500...$2000 on average private seller or $2200 TOPS on a good day. Those axles knocking will not bode well when selling. NADA does not give private party values so a good rule of thumb would be to split the different between retail (whereas a car has gone through mechanical and aesthetic reconditioning) and trade in which has gone through NO reconditioning then bias more towards the trade-in value. (I had to guess how it was equipped and guess on aesthetic condition also). Split the difference and you will be pretty close to real world private party value or Actual Cash Value or ACV. All that said, I think there is a used car shortage right now. I have my reasons for thinking that but I found a Chevy Malibu that was listed through a private seller on Autotrader.com. Only one. (There was a double-wide mobile home in a rural setting so I think it was legit). But try Craigslist. You'll find plenty of sellers there who won't accept trade-in value, esp on a newer car.

[ike529az]

Because of my mechanic's conflict of interest in both selling me the 2 cars and then repairing them as well I was given some going forward advice before I came on here by a forum mechanic. I'm not bashing my mechanic. He's done lots of free work and let me bring parts in. The forum mechanic had told me that the broken axle repair price of $400 seemed really high. He also said that if I was thinking of selling these 2 cars I should think of getting them checked out by an independent mechanic to see just what kind of shape they're in. I followed up on that by 1st taking in the Buick for a full car analysis with a recommended mechanic and also to get a quote on fixing the temp. controller. He called me back on Fri. and said the car overall was fine but he could not fix the controller. I'm scheduled to pick up the Buick and drop off the Sonata tomorrow for the analysis and get the broken axles quote. Its free however he might not like keep doing this for nothing and I don't blame him. I'll offer him money for his time.

I looked at NADA - you were right $2000 on the Sonata however most people here quote Kelly Blue book for car values even though they are inflated. Before that I had wanted to see what the lifespan was on the 2003 Sonata was and what owners thought in terms of repairs they were having to deal with. I was shocked to find out of 300 owners this car had a 8.5 rating out of 10, go figure. Comments like I love it, problems were cheap to fix... However a car site flagged transmission issues. You could to talk to one person and its their dream car and to another, its their worst nightmare. I've owned it 2 1/2 years - 129k miles right now: I had to have new brakes front and back/ok -new tires/ok - then a condenser then brake line, now - gas line (I could be wrong on the last one > the exact repair - he showed me / I was clueless). I will know shortly what the deal is. When I quoted the $2500 with all my limited car knowledge I was including brand new stereo - tinting - modified muffler - bodywork ---> I just bought 4 new 70,000 Brigestone lifetime warranty tires a couple of months ago! - flawless interior - sharp hubs. My thought was a young buck would see and hear car this an pay a premium. I paid $2300. I would split the axle repair and I think it will be cheaper than $400. I would negotiate down, I'm a realist -- or am I? HaHa

What if the mechanic comes back and says yeah the broken axles and the other thing need repair, but after those its fine. Might someone else say, hey you put all this money into the Sonata and now you're gonna dump it and take a $1300 hit?
Why not sell the Buick while you haven't paid a penny in repairs and then run the Sonata into the ground and get some use out of that car you just pumped a ton of cash into the last 6 months? You can then take that Buick sale cash and then build more cash for that better quality later model car you want. What do you think?