W8 Brake Problem !

[Canada Bob]

I bought a 2003 W8 and in the 6 months/10,000 Miles that I've had it on the road the Dealer has had to replace 6 rotors !!!

On the first occasion they repleaced all 4 and within 3 weeks after that they have had to replace the front 2.

I first noticed the problem {what ever it is} when the brakes started to squeak quite a bit, and after driving the car for no more than 10 miles the heat from the rotors was INTENSE.

The thing is the front passenger side seems to be by far the worst one, then the front driver side followed {pun intended} by the rear rotors, which never get quite so hot.

The heat was enough to start cracks in the 4 original rotors, but not quite that bad in the replacement ones, but having said that they have only been on a few weeks.

The Dealers don't know what's causing this, VW don't seem to care too much, they have in effect told me to carry on driving the car, and they will replace as need be when things go wrong !

I'm none too happy with this attitude, it leaves me driving a $64,000 Cnd $'s that is, car, that is giving me anxiety attacks {and I'm not that sort of a guy}, but I don't want to think what happens to me and my family if these brakes sieze or fail in a more catastrophic way {if part of the rotor fractures, and comes off}, what happens to me at highway
speeds and that can be 60mph or up to 75mph in the US ?

Would you want to guess the result of something going wrong as you pass an 18 wheeler, or are meeting one coming the opposite way ?

I'm not happy with VW, but I have no option but to keep driving a car that I don't any longer feel safe driving !

I would have thought VW would have had a better attitude than this !

I've bought 3 new VW's in the last 2+ years, a Polo, a V6 Passat and now the W8, I can tell you that although other than this, the car is a fine car, but so is a bleedin' Hearse !

Hope that someone will be able to provide me with some feed back or insights on this.

It will be the LAST VW I buy after being treated with such disregard by VW, the Dealer has shown more concern than VW have !

Canada Bob.

robert01942#hotmail.com

[boschmann]

You don't brake with your left foot do you? I'll assume your not leaving your foot on the pedal while driving. Have they checked with the car on a lift to see if the brakes are sticking on after you release the pedal? Make sure they do it with the car running, a problem in the vacuum booster could be the problem, putting slight pressure even when your foot is off the pedal.

[Canada Bob]

Hi,

Thanks for the comments, I appreciate any feedback I can get on this, driving the car right now is no pleasure at all, and for $64,000 it's supposed to be.

As far as the left foot thing, no, I don't do that, nor do I ride the brakes, a give away on that would be {I think} equal wear and temps on all 4 rotors ? {maybe}, anyway I've never had this problem in 30 odd years of driving.

Took the car out todat, less than 20 miles, was careful not to use the brakes {almost at all} just to see the result as a buddy of mine had brought a digital {non touch} thermometer thing, we logged the temps and while the back rotors were OK at around 120f, the front rotors were over 400f at one point, and as I say I tried my best not to use the brakes at all.

This situation aint any fun at all, I could smell the hot metal as I was driving, and that's in less than 20 miles. How do I live with this if I have to drive 600 miles in a day, and I am required to do that in the work that I'm in {from time to time}.

The car is a great car, but the situation with the brakes is causing me a lot of concern, not that VW see it the same way, they seemingly couldn't care less {about my safety} and all they are prepared to do is replace as needed while the warranty lasts, does that sound like a Responsible Company to you ?

As things are now I don't feel comfortable driving the car, if something does wrong it may now be me who loses his life, it could be some completely innocent person, who has no idea I have a car with a brake problem, and I can't have that on my conscience, I respect folks too much for that, pity VW can't think the same way.

This is THE LAST car I'll buy from them, and that's after buying 3 new cars straight, back to back from VW in the last 2+ years !

I'm staggered that my complaints and concerns have simply been responded to by some girl in a call centre type thing, reading me a statement presented to her ! What the hell does she know ? and what the hell do the report writers know ? they didn't even know that I' had 6 rotors replaced, told me it was only 2 !!! so you might imagine my chagrin at their response.

If this is how VW treat their clients then my advise is STAY AWAY from them, no matter how good the cars {might be}, if they can't respond to a brake situation in a better way then what does it take to get respect for their customers !

If the car is the best car in the world, but the brakes seize or fail in some other way, then this is nothing more than an "accident" waiting to kill someone ! right now I don't even want to take it out of the garage.

The next letter to VW will be from a Lawyer, and followed up real soon after that with the Media, maybe that's the only thing they concern themselves about ?

Would YOU believe this from VW ??? I'd expect better from Lada or Hyundai !!!

Bob.

[boschmann]

There seems to be good and bad dealers, you tend to hear more about the bad ones. I agree that temp reading is horrible and actually dangerous. If they are getting that hot with little/no use they can actually cause the fluid to boil & you can lose your brakes. DOT 4 fluid boils around 500F. You need to contact VWOA about this dealer's complacency with this situation. Obviously the front brakes are dragging & they need to find the reason before the car is driven any further. I don't know if this is who you've called but try VWOA's customer care @ 1-800-222-8987 (have your VIN available), or email through this link:

http://www.vw.com/VwSFB/index

You can also ask the dealer for the factory representative's number. They usually won't give it out, but will have them call you. Keep bringing it back with the same complaint, most US states have a lemon law regarding this, Canada should be similar (info should be in your manual). This gives you tremendous leverage, although can be aggravating, but if your not driving it anyway who cares.

[Canada Bob]

Hi Boschman...

THANKS for your comments, first of all I'd better clarify one point, the Dealership {Hillcrest VW of Halifax, Nova Scotia} are a great outfit, they have done all they {seemingly} can do, it VW Canada/US that my complaint is with, they designed the car and {at least in my humble opinion} they are the ones responsible for the condition/design/problem with the brakes.

I'm indebted to you for your technical expertise, especially on the boiling piont of the brake fluid, I never even gave that a thought, but I will be doing now.

I have also bnoted the excessive amount of brake pad dust on the front wheels, obviously for some reason or other the brakes are {at least} partialy on while I'm driving.

The way things are going I'll just take the car off the road, maybe even return it to the dealer {as considered unsafe to drive} and let them report that to VW Canada/US and follow that up with a Legal Action against them, for recovery of the cost of the car, and if they can't see the light then bang in for the stress that this situation is causing me.

Once again I value and appreciate your comments, Thanks !

Canada Bob.

[janep]

I hear you Bob. I have had my 2002 Passat W8 wagon in the shop for over 2 weeks. The garage had to ship it to another VW garage because they did not have any W8 mechanics on staff. Typical of VW service that I have experienced. Long story short, my W8 crapped out with only 36,000 miles on it. The garage talked about reconditioning engine, then decided to replace the engine with a new W8 engine. I was told the new engine was $31K, but since I am under warranty it is covered. This is just one of many things I have had go wrong with this car. My solution, I am getting the car back tomorrow (after they tap off all the fluids and take if for a test drive) and headed to TOYOTA for a new 2004 Highlander Limited. I am tired of the whole VW experience - service and what appears to be a less than superior car engineering. What ever happened to "German Engineering." No more VWs for me.

[janep]

PS: I had the break thing too. They replaced my rotars, but it took over 2 visits to convince them something was wrong at the VW garage. No more VWs

[Canada Bob]

Something has "gone rotten in Denmark" or more precisely Deutchland,
60 years ago my father couldn't stop the German technology with a bazooka, but 60 years later the {of VW} reliability is the pits, and to make it much worse, the attitude of VW America is SHAMEFUL ! when they get embarrassed the usual response if to put the phone down on their clients !

Think about it... you'd get a better attitude off Lada or Hyundai than that, and I'm NOT joking, they have a lousy "take it or leave it" attitude, shameful to VW and the worst attitude I've EVER come across from anyone in the US, in fact it's unique, but in the worst possible way.

Do me a favour, in fact do everyone a favour, make sure you talk about this, that's the only thing VW America will care about !

$64,000 Cnd for a car that no one wants, VW won't take it back, and I ceratinly don't want it, so for the most part it sits in the garage and I use the wifes Mazda 626.

Anyone interested in buying my W8 ??? ANY REASONABLE OFFER WILL BE LOOKED AT...

But like me, buy it and YOUR ON YER OWN !

[VW/CHEVYGUY]

Sorry to hear you guys have so many problems with your W8s. My 2003 has 23K on it and hasn't given me a days problem. I traded my 2001 GLX V6 5 speed for my 6 speed and wouldn't give it up for the world.....
I had a similar problem with my 86 Jetta back in around 1992. The front brakes were smoking after a 10 minute ride. Turned out the port in the master cylinder for the front brakes was restricted causing thje front brakes to be constantly applied, they would not release when I released the brake pedal... Sounds suspiciously similar.

[zackiedawg]

Hey Canadian Bob, sounds like you got a problem there, and maybe even a lemon. It can happen with any car, if you just happen to be unlucky...my step-father had a horrendous experience with an Acura, in the shop almost 4 months in 2 years with dozens of problems, despite being purchased new with 34 miles on the odometer. He was one of the few, since Acura's reputation is otherwise stellar...he just got unlucky.

I would say it sounds like you have sticking calipers, or you have a problem with brake pressure due to cylinder failure or fluid failure. Try to get them to check the master cylinder, and don't be afraid to have the brake fluid itself checked and tested (I've known of a guy who had power-steering fluid in his brake resovoir...never assume anything is too stupid for a mechanic to have done). Either way, American law states that if the vehicle is in service 3 documented times for the identical problem and it doesn't get resolved, the car is deemed a lemon and must be repurchased from the client at full reimbursement minus use. You may want to check if Canada's laws are similar.

I am happy that I've had my 2003 W8 wagon now for a little under 2 years, and with over 33,000 miles it has been wonderful. It is my second VW, with my 2000 Passat V6 giving me 3 years and 35,000 trouble free miles. I may have been generally lucky with cars, since I have had cars from Honda, VW, Mitsubishi, Pontiac, and Hyundai all run quite trouble-free in some fairly hard usage. I had one car that ever gave me problems, a 1994 Mitsubishi Montero which I purchased to replace my wonderful 1990 Montero (120,000 perfect miles)...it ate its front rotors every 6 months and the belt loosened twice. Knock on wood, I've had a good run with my cars.

I do recommend you pursue a further inspection of the brake system, as this has not really been a known problem area for W8s. So far, since release the car has had a recall for bad coils in some vehicles, and for a clunk in the front right side from loose steering arm bolts on some vehicles. The owners I talk to haven't complained typically about this brake issue, but they do mention that the brake pads do not last as long as stock Passats (not a big surprise considering the 4-piston front calipers and larger surface rotors plus the heavier engine). The brakes and calipers are not exclusive to the car...they come from the Audi A8 where they've been used for several years before the debut of the W8.

Anyway, good luck,and I hope the problem is either resolved to your confidence, or if not that a lemon law can protect you and get the car repurchased at no cost to you. Certainly noone should have to feel nervous or unsure about driving the car they invested good money in...even if it is only a $10,000 car...let alone a $40,000 car.