is car oil, fuel system cleaner, and octane booster ok?

[tran_nsx]

i just purchased my bike, a 1997 suzuki gsxr 750 last week and im curious if this is alright for the motor. i don't see why not to be honest since it is using the same fuel as cars. another thing that caught my eye is the lubricant used. i read this article about motorcycle oil on another forum and found out that some car oil works just as well as the more expensive motorcycle oil. in one of the article's example, it pointed out a guy had reached 100,000 and on a follow up even passed 200,000 miles!!! on his cbr using castrol motor oil. after telling my friend who had been riding 4 more years than i did, he thought it was jibberish. anyways, a couple days later, i was helping him to fix his brake light on his 2004 cbr 600rr. while he was busy checking the fuses, i saw a specs label on the frame under the passenger seat. what really caught my eye was that for lubricant, it stated sae 10w-40 which is the same as car motor oil. so im curious what ur take on this is???

heres the article:
http://www.sportbikechat.com/modules...article&sid=18

[Z_Fanatic]

I kinda agree, but not all automotive oil, you have to check which fits your bike best.

For FZR, this guy pointed out how dealership make more money selling the same crap:

http://www.tourtimemedia.com/fzr/sucker.html

[aussieidiot]

oils break down over time and usage. thats why they recommend 10,000k's or 6 months. i've seen a car go over 270,000ks without an oil change but the oil was very shitty. it still lubricated and didn't leak so the owner thought the oil was still good.

is it worth the risk not to change it?

also your bike has a wet clutch so the clutch is in with the oil. clutches are a friction based part so you will end up with sediment within the oil circulating.

its true that some guys use Mobil 1 or other synthetic oils in their bikes over bikes brands but just check it out first. hell i use Repsol or Motul in my car.

[Z_Fanatic]

semi-synthetic or synthetic blend also works with bikes with wet clutches.

hey, aussie, I know you're mechanically inclined from before, but how'd you get to learn more about bikes? buy service manual or work at any shop? I need to learn this stuff fast. this crazy mechanic is charging me $65.00 an hour to repair the bike, totaling over $500.00. like cleaning carbs, change rear tire, putting on a choke, repairing rear brake. stuff that I know I could do if I had the tools and know how. I figured changing the tire would be easy, but then I realized I have to set the chain, sprockets, brake, etc.

[tran_nsx]

[quote=aussieidiot]i've seen a car go over 270,000ks without an oil change QUOTE]

how much is that in miles???? i personally know a female who didn't change her oil in her car becuase she didn't know she was suppose to, so the only thing she did was add oil when it needed. the outcome; the oil basically turned to a thick mollasses consistancy and she had to buy a new motor.

about the oil, i come to the conclusion that automotive oil can be used in motorcycles, thanks for everyones opinion, so i think i'll try it out. with the fuel system cleaner, which no one had answered??? i checked with some of the guys at cycle loyds, and they tell me that they've used it, so i later purchased a vavoline fuel system cleaner and will put it in tommorrow. lastly, the octane booster. if a motorcycle engine uses the same gas as cars, and can use autmotive oil, and automotive fuel system cleaner, i see it that there wouldn't be a problem with me using an octane booster. thanks again everyone, u might see me here more often since i do have a bike now

[NaKeDZX]

FWIW, do not use auto oil in your motorcycle. The only auto oil that can safely be used in bikes today is Mobil 1 with the red cap. All other auto oils that say "energy conserving" in the label on the back of the bottle are not safe for wet clutches. Yes, I used to use Castrol in my bikes years ago, that was before all of the friction modifiers they put in auto oil today. You don't have to buy synthetic, but at least use a motorcycle specific oil. Auto oils also aren't designed to deal with the shearing effects the transmission gears have on oil. For a few cents more every few months.....

BTW, I use Mobil1 15-50 in my bikes most of the time, but when they change that particular formula to an "energy conserving" type, I'll be using motorcyle oil. JMO YMMV

Edit: As for octane booster, unless your engine is highly modified (increased compression ratio) there is absolutely NO benefit to using an octane booster. Any engine with stock internals will never need more that the high test at the pumps today. Fuel system cleaners; I don't see a problem, but you shouldn't need to use them very often, I never do.

[tran_nsx]

Originally Posted by NaKeDZX

Auto oils also aren't designed to deal with the shearing effects the transmission gears have on oil. For a few cents more every few months.....

im not trying to point u out, but how can u say auto oil aren't designed to deal with the shearing effects from transmission gears? u can use auto oil as manual transmission fluid in cars no problem. if u ever go to any auto store and ask for manual transmission fluid, the workers gonna look it up and tell u to use a 10w-30 or something close to that. i made the mistake of going to honda and paying for 6 dollars a bottle which is probobaly car oil but instead they put mtf as the label and a 6 dollar price tag on it.

[Z_Fanatic]

OEM and Dealer Parts...

You find yourself at your local authorized Yamaha dealership checking out the new R1 when you are actually there to pick up a part for your old reliable FZR. Then you see it. The shelf that has all the oil, lubricants, cleaners and fluids you can possibly imagine. At closer inspection you see they all say "Motorcycle" or "Yama-lube" somewhere on the packaging. You think to yourself... "This stuff is made for my bike... I better buy it." Then you see the price. Wow! $13 for the oil filter! $7.50 a quart for semi-synthetic oil. $5 for DOT 4 brake fluid. - "But it must be good. I mean this stuff was made for my bike!


Stop right there hoss. Let me fill you in on a few secrets. None of the Japanese motorcycle companies make oil, filters, lube, grease, or any other maintenance product you see on the shelf. Every one of those products are OEM. - Made by other companies who print different names on them. If you think you're doing your bike a favor by putting on a $13 Yamaha oil filter over a Napa Gold oil filter you are highly mistaken! Keep this in mind... Yamaha buys filters from companies who OEM them with their name, they don't make them. That's not to say their are NO differences between filters, but in reality, if you change your oil every couple of thousand miles like you're supposed to, you will reap no benefits spending more for an OEM or specialty brand name filter.

Marketing, Marketing, Marketing... Partial to a type of battery are you? You think the one that says Yamaha on the side will give you more cold cranking amps for your FZR? Let Larry give you the skinny. Their are only a handfull of major auto battery manufactures who OEM them for all other names. The biggest being Johnson Controls, Exide Technologies and Delphi. So don't get suckered into thinking your getting a "superior" product for your FZR when all your really getting is ripped off. Use this new found knowledge... and keep your money.



Johnson Controls makes: Interstate, Optima, ProStart, TrueStart, Duralast, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Honda Eveready, Energizer, Power Connection, DieHard, Equalizer, Kirkland Signature, EverStart, Motorcraft batteries and dozens of others.


Exide makes: Champion, Brylite, Deta, Dunlop, Dynex, Endurance, Centra, Fulmen, GNB, Marshall, Napa, Pacific Chloride, Marathon, Sonnenschein, Orbital, Stowaway, Tudor, Sprinter,Yuasa and dozens of others.


Delphi makes: ACDelco, Amoco, Atlas, BlueStar, Delkor, Double Eagle, Dura-Power, Ford, Freedom, IntelleGuard, Sams Club, Shell, Western Auto, Advance Auto, International, Dynavolt and dozens of others.


Get the point? If you're really into batteries, and need to see the complete list, you may do so here.


Oil Filters... Same story with oil filters. Their are only a handfull of major oil filter manufactures who OEM them for all other names.


Allied-Signal makes: Fram, Autolite Penzoil, and Bendix.


Champion makes: ACDelco, AutoZone, Champ, Champion, Car & Driver, Deutsch, Lee, Lee Maxi, Mobil 1, OEM Motorcraft, STP, Volvoline, Many OEM brands and over 100 private label filters.


ArvinMeritor makes: Aftermarket Motorcraft, PowerFlo, ProLine, Purolator Pure One, Purolator Premium Plus, Quaker State, etc.


Dana Corporation makes: CarCraft, Napa Gold, Wix, etc.


Tokyo Roki, Ltd. - Japan makes: Suzuki, Honda & Kawasaki OEM filters etc.


Here's what you do... go to your local aftermarket AUTO parts store. (Yes I said AUTO) and check to see what filters, oil, cleaners and fluids they stock for you bike. You will find that the FRAM oil filter is $5. Motorcycle oil will be less too if you can find it, and the DOT 4 Brake fluid is about $2.50. Most batteries are available there too. I just paid $25 for a battery and then witnessed a guy who paid $60 for the same one at the dealer.

A word regarding synthetic oil... Some people (non-FZR-owners) have reported clutch slippage using synthetic oil in a wet clutch situation (which the FZR has). But it's not like we're dealing with the kind of torque that's in the R1! I am personally running Spectro Gold semi-synthetic 10w40 motorcycle oil in my FZR. Yes this stuff costs $6-$7/quart. I'm not sure if I got ripped off or not, but it's a proven fact that synthetic oil is superior to dino-oil. Since I'm reluctant to use 100% synthetic, and Specto has been making this stuff for like 30 years, I decided semi-synthetic by Spectro would be a safe bet.

[NaKeDZX]

It's just a common thing I've read in reports comparing auto and mc specific oils. I'm not an oil expert, just a pretty good mc mechanic. I've had personal experience with clutch slippage due to auto oils. Years ago it was perfectly ok to use auto oil in your bike. Things have changed and I strongly recommend using mc oil or M1 15-50 (the only one that isn't energy conserving) in your bike. It doesn't have to be synthetic, just made for a bike.

I do agree with Z Fanatic about the OEM vs aftermarket parts thing. There's not a whole lot I'll buy from the dealer anymore.

[kelwa1]

The only time, and I stress the ONLY part, you should use a fuel additive is if your bike has been sitting up a while to stabilize the fuel from basically going bad. Gas can go bad in a month in a motorcycle fuel tank. I'm not saying it will go bad, just that it has happened in the past. Use it sparingly, the container amounts that your FLAPS sells are made for automotive fuel tanks with a capacity of about 10 gallons or above and made to just dump in the tank. Whatever amount you buy, use about .25 to .50 of the bottle to a full tank of gas, or about 3 to 4 ounces per 5 gallons of gas.

What nobody before has actually come out and said is that the engine oil is shared by the clutch on most japanese sportbikes and cruisers, and most motorcycles on the road today. It's simple, oil lubes the crank and bottom-end of the engine, bunch of shearing stress there, plus the extra shearing stress of gears changing constantly, for the most part. Practically double of what an automotive engine goes through. All the oil in the engine of the auto does is pretty much lubing the bottom end, well, maybe I over-simplified it some, but I think you can understand. What somebody mentioned before is true, automotive oils DO NOT share the anti-shearing properties that motorcycle oils contain. Sure they're made by the same companies, but they are made to the manufacturer's spec's for certain energetic uses.

So,,,, for my 99 ZRX1100, I use Golden Spectro full synthetic. Works for my peace-of-mind, and I believe my clutch lasts much longer than if I used an automotive oil.

[NaKeDZX]

Another ZRX owner!! And a 99 to boot! Guess I don't have to ask if you've been to the the ZRXOA. RIGHT???

[tran_nsx]

[quote=kelwa1]What somebody mentioned before is true, automotive oils DO NOT share the anti-shearing properties that motorcycle oils contain. Sure they're made by the same companies, but they are made to the manufacturer's spec's for certain energetic uses.
QUOTE]

u didn't get what i was trying to point out. let me explain in further detail. lets say u need mtf (manual transmission fluid) and u go to honda to get some, they give u a bottle that says mtf that cost $6. why??? motor oil can also be used but apparently some people don't know this as tranmission fluid and only cost $2 a bottle. now which one are u gonna use? if ur gonna say the $6 a bottle of mtf, then the marketing had got u. anyways, the link i had show real proof automotive oil can be use to 200,000+ miles on a bike with any problem. but i guess people were too lazy to read. . heres the results for all u lazy people, if u want to learn more about oil, read on. i know not any automotive oil can be use on any bike, but this is also true with cars too, just have to do a lil research and then u will save some money.

Real World Test Results

Are there any "real world" examples of long motorcycle engine life using automotive oils? There is a good one in the June 1996 issue of Sport Rider magazine in a report called the "100,000 mile Honda CBR900RR." The owner used conventional Castrol GTX oil, 10W40 in the winter, 20W50 in the summer. He changed it every 4,000 miles, changing the filter every OTHER oil change. No valve clearance adjustments were required after the initial one at 16,000 miles. And a dyno test against the same model with only 6,722 miles showed torque and horsepower virtually identical. The 100,000 mile bike was even used for some racing. In a subsequent follow-up, the same CBR had passed 200,000 miles and was still going strong! Plus, many motorcyclists have emailed me with their very positive results using nothing but automotive oils for years in a variety of rides. Oils have changed over the past 10 years, but that just means we need to be more careful in our choices.

[kelwa1]

Originally Posted by NaKeDZX

Another ZRX owner!! And a 99 to boot! Guess I don't have to ask if you've been to the the ZRXOA. RIGHT???

Actually, no, I havent, but I will soon. Good to know. It's my most favorite motorcycle I've ever had in my 34 year riding history, more fun than 10 barrels of monkeys. My big trip of the year is from Atlanta,GA to Key West,FL. I make it a round trip of about 1500 miles.



Tran_nsx ,,,,,,,,

I read everthing you wrote, and I also read that article you mention, but it's been awhile since, hard to remember all the details for a guy my age. Basically, I was just pointing out a few other things to ponder, some facts ( based on 20 years at a dealership ), some opinion, and some real world experience that somebody may or may not listen to. The name of the game is saving money, and we all like to do that, but , irregardless, people will have their preferences. I just happen to be one of them

[aussieidiot]

Originally Posted by kelwa1

What nobody before has actually come out and said is that the engine oil is shared by the clutch on most japanese sportbikes and cruisers, and most motorcycles on the road today. .

not to be rude but i mentioned this up the top

personally i use what will give my bike better performance. i always use full synthetic. isn't that what owning a sportsbike is about? performance. why be a tightarse and use a car oil just because its cheaper. i'm not saying pay $20 for oil at a dealer when you can get the same product for $10 at a parts shop but at least do the right thing by the machine.
i have used a fuel additive once but just to clean out the jets on a long ride day

also mobil 1 down under isn't the best for high reving motors. in cars on track days the oil was to viscous and moved away from bottom end bearings under hard corners.

to answer Z's question about where i learnt, had a shit box car and learnt on that. then on my gixer, when something had to be fixed, i'd pull it apart and see how to fix it. everything from clutch cables and the three points of adjustment suzuki loved so much to re-building the shocks.

and trans-nx 270 000k's is the equivalent of 168 000miles

[NaKeDZX]

"at least do the right thing by the machine"

Amen