Nissan 350SX.......what????

[Fliquer]

Nissan has mentioned that the FM platform can be shortened further than with the Z, so that is a possibility. Also, there is no point in nissan building a S16 with proportions similar to the S15 or Z. If anything they will lean towards a small hatch-style car similar to the 180sx. Seeing as how a lot of the Z's weight is in the heavy VQ35 and lux equipment, nissan shouldnt have too much trouble keeping the base s16 around 2700 lbs.

I predict the power will come from a NA QR producing 200 or so HP. The S16 would start around $18k in very VERY frugal form (no lsd, 16" wheels, no spoiler, 4 speakers, all-season tires maybe, etc.) and probably option up to $24k. Also, a substantial nismo catalog would be offered for the car.

Anyways, this is just what I think nissan should do with the S16 to make it fun AND profitable. The car I've described would fit nicely into nissans current line-up, imposing very little on other models. SE-R and 350Z sales would have to stay strong in the USA for Nissan to build a S16.

[VQuick]

That's very close to what I thought of. Great job!

My only question is...where do the back seats go? I don' t think the Z had room for them, let alone a shrunken version of the Z's chassis variant. That's why I was pushing for the longer G35 wheelbase.

Who knows, Nissan might have a few more little tricks up their sleeve with this FM platform. They were able to stretch it, and give us the upcoming Fuga/M45, so maybe they can shrink it a bit and keep it a four seater, too.

[Fliquer]

My only question is...where do the back seats go?

Same place they were on the 180sx

[Soyo]

who says it has to have back seat? not like you can use them anyways, unless your under 10 years old, and I think they should forget about an S16 and start up something new but still base it off of the S chasis cars.

honestly they could whip up a new engine relatively easy, in the time it takes to design and build a whole car they could design and build a new engine, that could all be done in like 3-5 years tops if they took ideas from the S chasis.

and I know the TR26DE isn't an engine, thats why I said they should make a new engine that was about a 2.6 and call it like TR26DE, I just pick some letters for the hell of it, so chill

and you don't think 2700lbs is practicul??? I bet they could make it 2500lbs if they wanted to. with a 4cyl engine, in a 2-seater your already looking at under 3000lbs, use some light weight material and don't put in heavy seats or any of that crap and you'll easily be at 2700lbs

EDIT: whens the last time you road in a car thats like 1998+ that didn't come standard with all that? and all the other stuff like leather, bigger wheels, sunroof/moonroof, bigger spoiler... those were all OPTIONAL!

[VQuick]

Originally Posted by Soyo

who says it has to have back seat?

Silvia tradition, not to mention all the enthusiasts who pay insurance based on whether a car is a four seater or not. Besides, what's the point of slotting another two seater into the lineup? That would be too close to the Z, the prevention of which being almost the central theme of this thread.

honestly they could whip up a new engine relatively easy, in the time it takes to design and build a whole car they could design and build a new engine, that could all be done in like 3-5 years tops if they took ideas from the S chasis.

This statement here blows your credibility. Nissan showed a GT-R concept in 2001, and the launch has been pushed back until 2007. With everything Nissan has on their plate now, the delay was a necessity. The GT-R doesn't even have an exclusive chassis, so the development time is shorter than what it could be. It will take quite a while to create a new motor, even if Nissan saw the need to...and they probably don't.

Out of curiosity, what 'ideas from the S chasis' are you talking about? The factory hasn't been making S-chassis cars for about a year and a half now, and has probably been retooled for making something else.

and you don't think 2700lbs is practicul??? I bet they could make it 2500lbs if they wanted to.

When did I say 2700lbs was impractical? Why would I say something like that? I didn't even say it was impossible, but it would still be quite difficult with all of the safety features required now. Heck, Nissan could probably make the car weigh under a ton if they wanted to, but then it'd be too expensive.

with a 4cyl engine, in a 2-seater your already looking at under 3000lbs, use some light weight material and don't put in heavy seats or any of that crap and you'll easily be at 2700lbs

At what cost, my friend? Lightweight material costs more money. Even with a 4 cylinder engine, you will have to choose carefully with regard to weight. The VQ is pretty light for a V6, and is as light as some 4 bangers. It probably weighs less than the KA(~493lbs), considering the VH41DE V8 only weighs 521lbs.

whens the last time you road in a car thats like 1998+ that didn't come standard with all that?

A rented Pontiac Grand Am, in the spring of 2000 comes to mind. Oh and there was a 2001 Chevy Silverado, too. Next question?

[Fliquer]

At what cost, my friend? Lightweight material costs more money

Just FYI, the mid-90s maximas were less than 3000lbs. 2700 in an optionless 2-door coupe isnt a problem.

[VQuick]

Originally Posted by Fliquer

Just FYI, the mid-90s maximas were less than 3000lbs. 2700 in an optionless 2-door coupe isnt a problem.

I know exactly what you're talking about. My dad has a 3rd gen(89-94) Maxima. Sure, it might weigh under 3000lbs...but my 4th gen(95-99, I have a '99) Maxima weighs around 3200lbs, and that's with a lighter aluminum block engine! My dad's car doesn't have air bags, and other safety equipment that came along later. That's why it is hard to keep cars light now.

Your ending statement says it all. The car just might have to be a stripper to get down to that 2700lbs target. Actually, I wouldn't mind buying that. I was glad to hear Mitsubishi was selling the Evo RS here. If I can get one with just ABS and A/C, I'll be happy.

[Soyo]

I hate people like you that talk like they know, then I have to look up the info to prove them wrong...

2004 car weights (all cars between $15,000-$25,000)
2004 Acura RSX Type S 2 Dr Coupe - 2,767 lbs.
2004 Chevrolet Cavalier LS Sport 2 Dr Coupe - 2,749 lbs.
2004 Honda Civic EX 2 Dr Coupe - 2,554 lbs.
2004 Mitsubishi Lancer O-Z Rally 4 Dr Sedan - 2,700 lbs.(look 4 doors, full back seats, and still 2,700lbs, oh and only $16,000 but the S chasis will never be that light)
2004 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V 4 Dr Sedan - 2,710 lbs.(look a 4 door nissan with seating for 5 and only $17,000!)
2004 Subaru Impreza WRX 4 Dr Sedan - 3,085 lbs.(another one with 4 doors and seating for 5!)
2004 Toyota Celica GTS Action Package 2 Dr Hatchback - 2,500 lbs.(WOW celica with full features and only 2,500lbs. but nissan could never do that)
2004 Mazda RX-8 2 Dr Coupe - 3,053 lbs.($25,000 with all that nice interior, 250hp, 6-speed, 18inch wheels wrapped in bridgestone potenzas, has sport suspension, and 2 half doors and back seats)
2004 Ford Mustang 2 Dr Coupe - 3,066 lbs.(had to add this huge car since you think a new S chasis would weight 300lbs. yea it'll be as much as a mustang alright)
2004 Mitsubishi Lancer LS Sport Wagon 4 Dr Wagon - 3,020 lbs.(maybe it'll way as much as a 4 DOOR WAGON!)

and if you think any of that is false just check www.motortrend.com I got it all there, just copy pasted it for each one.

now please stop posting over and over about what you don't know ok? thanks you, have a nice day.

[TheLogikal1]

Originally Posted by VQuick

Your ending statement says it all. The car just might have to be a stripper to get down to that 2700lbs target.

sometimes i read what you post and wanna kick myself to see if im dreaming. cause i think that idiocy like that cant possibly exsist in real life.

but you prove me wrong vquick, you prove me wrong indeed.



nice post soyo.

[Fliquer]

nonono I was referring to the 95+ ones.....but I was wrong.

The base 95+ maximas weigh exactly 3001lbs.

[VQuick]

Originally Posted by Fliquer

nonono I was referring to the 95+ ones.....but I was wrong.

The base 95+ maximas weigh exactly 3001lbs.

Yeah, that body went up for some reason in '97. Lucky me.

Originally Posted by Soyo

2004 car weightsall cars between $15,000-$25,000

So what's your point? Most of these cars are well over 2700lbs, and fwd to boot. Typically, a rwd vehicle will weigh more. Especially one the size of a 240SX, which is bigger than most of the cars you listed. Even the S14 240SX was about 2800lbs.
Additionally, the RX-8 tends to support my reasoning, since the motor and chassis were lightweight. Mazda was planning on the car being well under 3000lbs, perhaps even lighter than the FD3S(~2700lbs). Somehow, it ended up being 3053lbs like you mentioned.

You still don't understand my point about how heavy the FM platform is. Why else would the 350Z weigh so much, even with an aluminum block motor and weight saving tricks like a carbon fiber driveshaft? It will take some additional measures to keep a four seater version at the same weight, let alone any lower.

You've seen the weights for the FM-based vehicles. I've posted them. The Z is the lightest, at 3188lbs. If Nissan shrunk down the chassis like Fliquer mentioned, I think they could get something around 2700lbs. Using current the current chassis variants out there, it just won't happen.

[Soyo]

Originally Posted by VQuick

Yeah, that body went up for some reason in '97. Lucky me.




So what's your point? Most of these cars are well over 2700lbs, and fwd to boot. Typically, a rwd vehicle will weigh more. Especially one the size of a 240SX, which is bigger than most of the cars you listed. Even the S14 240SX was about 2800lbs.
Additionally, the RX-8 tends to support my reasoning, since the motor and chassis were lightweight. Mazda was planning on the car being well under 3000lbs, perhaps even lighter than the FD3S(~2700lbs). Somehow, it ended up being 3053lbs like you mentioned.

You still don't understand my point about how heavy the FM platform is. Why else would the 350Z weigh so much, even with an aluminum block motor and weight saving tricks like a carbon fiber driveshaft? It will take some additional measures to keep a four seater version at the same weight, let alone any lower.

You've seen the weights for the FM-based vehicles. I've posted them. The Z is the lightest, at 3188lbs. If Nissan shrunk down the chassis like Fliquer mentioned, I think they could get something around 2700lbs. Using current the current chassis variants out there, it just won't happen.

you have got to be the dumbest person in the world...
2 of the cars listed were 2,500lbs
4 of the cars listed were 2,700lbs
4 of the cars listed were 3,000lbs(one being a freaking mustang which is huge, 2 being 4 door sedans, and the rx-8 with the half back doors which really are 4 is just doesn't have handles on the outside so they don't count as 4 doors)

why can't you admit that your dumb and you were wrong, say your sorry, then never post in this thread again, you can post all over the forums, I could care less but stop making this thread longer with all the wrong info your stating.

then you said some crap abotu your 99 maxima or whatever being 3200lbs... yea http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/u...ex.cfm/id/2214
the 96-99 maximas are exactly 3001lbs with 4 doors and a 3.0, so your wrong again

but you still say nissan can't make a 2-door car that is smaller, and with a 4cyl engine that only 2700lbs? *sigh* kids these days

the 90-94 maxima was 3129lbs. but yet you say newer cars weigh more cuz of safety stuff... BS

although now the 2000-2004 maximas are 3189lbs. they also got more options, plus 2 more inches to the wheel base, which doesn't seem like much but add that much around the whole car and you've got quite a bit of weight, and a 6spd and more engine goodies so that explains more weight there seeing as how its not a 3.0 with 225hp but now a 3.0 with 255 and we are talking about a 240 style car with a 2.4-2.6 and 180-210hp

then 2003 got a new design and are 3233 but also bigger and even more options

then 2004 got a whole new design and weighs 2400lbs

good to know that you know exactly how much your car weighs trying to say it went up in 97... it didn't go up till 2000 though makign you WRONG AGAIN


now, the 240sx coupe weighs 2699 and the hatch weighs 2730, an FC3S rx7 weighs 2800, a 91-95 mr2 weighs 2657... ok basing the new car on any of these would easily make it in the 2700 range, now lets see I'll list this part for you for simplicities sake(oh yea and the 240sx convertable weighed 2800, so if they can make a vert 2800 then I think they can handle it buddy)

-car specs all in inches-

89-93 240SX(coupe and hatch are the same):
wheelbase 97.4
length 178
width 66.5
height 50.8

90-92 RX7 2 seater:
wheelbase 95.7
length 169.9
width 66.5
height 49.8

91-95 MR2:
wheelbase 94.5
length 164.2
width 66.9
height 48.6

those are all almost exactly the same size only the 240SX has back seats even... now you say the cars I listed earlier where smaller than a 240sx... you will now see how WRONG YOU WERE AGAIN

2004 Civic Hatchback:
Wheelbase 101.2
Length 165.7
Width 66.7
Height 56.7

2004 Acura RSX:
Wheelbase 101.2
Length 172.2
Width 67.9
Height 54.7

2004 Cavalieron this one I found that the base model 2-door and 4-door are less than the weight of the 2 door LS so proves my point even further)
Cavalier 2-door coupe Cavalier 4-door sedan
Wheelbase 104.1 104.1
Length 182.7 182.7
Width 68.7 67.9
Height 53.0 54.7
Weight 2617 2676 (note both 2-door and 4-door are under 2700lbs even though every aspect of this car is bigger than the 240sx, you can see that for yourself I hope and what makes it even better is the fact that it can be bought new for between $16,000-$18,000 which happens to be the price you said couldn't be done)

2004 Sentra: (yet another car that has a base model at a lower weight than the top end model)
Wheelbase 99.8
Length 177.5
Width 67.3
Height 55.5
Weight 2513 (this car is a nissan, and has a 2.5 which is about the size engine we would expect for the car we are *hoping* will be made and it is only 2,500lbs and still has a bigger width, height, and wheel base than the 240sx and the length is almost exactly the same, plus its a 4 door with seating for 5!)

I'm gonna have to say my job is pretty much done here, if you think any information is false you can check it here http://auto.consumerguide.com/ I got it all there and they are a very reliable sorce.

now tell me again why those cars have equal or larger engines, and are equal or larger in size(which some how traslated into you saying they were smaller, still curious how you figured that one) and some are even 4 doors, but yet you say it can't be under $20,000, and be 2,700lbs., with a 2.4-2.6 4cyl engine, with about 180-210hp and equal torque, heck maybe they'll even keep the back seats in, if they do, you could just take out the bolts and walla loss of weight and no back seats, now everyones happy... well besides you ofcourse because you haven't said one intelligent thing this whole time. bye bye now

maybe someone should put out some 'owned' posts since like 4 of us have proved him wrong

[AWDSR20]

OMG!!! Soyo i did not read all of it, but you deffntly impresed me !!!
good work!!
cool info too!!

[AWDSR20]

yeah you proved him wrong indeed!!!!!

[VQuick]

Originally Posted by Soyo

you have got to be the dumbest person in the world...
2 of the cars listed were 2,500lbs
4 of the cars listed were 2,700lbs
4 of the cars listed were 3,000lbs

Seven of the 10 cars you listed were over 2700lbs, most of which being fwd. Again, all else being equal, a rwd car typically weighs more than a fwd one. This means that you can expect the Silvia to be a bit more than the fwds you mentioned. How am I wrong on this one again?

I’m still talking about basing the car on the FM platform, and why it might be heavier than you guys would like. This conversation has been steered away from that. Few if any of the cars you’ve mentioned are based on a platform that is also the basis for an SUV with a towing capacity of at least 3000lbs. The FM is unusually stiff and beefy for this reason, and that contributes to some of the extra weight. However, the rigidity and balance offered by this chassis cannot be ignored.

With Fliquer’s idea of shrinking the FM platform, your 2700lb target sounds much more feasible. With my idea of using the G35’s longer wheelbase of ~112 inches, it will be much harder and could result in a more expensive car.

Originally Posted by Soyo

yet you say it can't be under $20,000, and be 2,700lbs., with a 2.4-2.6 4cyl engine, with about 180-210hp and equal torque, heck maybe they'll even keep the back seats.

Where did I say the car couldn’t be less than $20k? Look at the prices I listed for my three trim levels. My proposed Silvia keeps the rear seats, and has a 2.5L engine with as little as 187hp and goes up to 215hp. Sticking with the Silvia’s 2L history, there is even a 2L available with 168hp.
Afaik, your major problem with my proposal is the weight and the fact that it uses a V6 rather than an I4.

Originally Posted by Soyo

but now a 3.0 with 255

Btw, that's the VQ35DE motor. At least that bit of info I got from Maxima.org is right. What new design did the '03 Maximas get, btw?