TD04 TURBO best gear to spool ????

[Tranzlogic]

My delema is on the most efficant way to spool up my turbo for are ound town daily driving.. would an LS 1st gear in a GSR tranny do teh job correctly ?? or would i be better of just LS or GSR any imput is appreciated ..as per i have never seen a car run with just an LS 1st gear

[boosted331]

The car with the GSR trans will accelerate faster, both in town or on the freeway.

[Tranzlogic]

yeah i know the gsr is def. gonna accelerate faster, but i wouldnt a ls first gear in a gsr be more effecient for the turbo to spool up ? that way it would pull alot harder in 1st gear...I just want the best of both worlds

[tran_nsx]

i don't think using an ls 1st gear is going to make a difference. with the money it cost to buy the 1st gear and installing it u could have put money into the turbo itself to get it to spool faster. right now a guy is selling a brand new garret t3 modifed by airesearch into a t3/t4 for 300 if ur interested. i would get it myself since that is a really good deal but i think i'll do things right the first time and save up for a turbonetics ball bearing turbo.

[quick95civic]

with a turbo car it is usually better to run a taller first gear like the one in the gsr tranny that way you can get going faster without the turbo and by the time you hit second the turbo is spooled. Im running a civic ex with a T3/T4 turbo and the ex 5 speed tranny so the first gear is pretty tall and the boost comes on about half way throug first then when I hit second I can already be at full boost. I know my boost comes on about 2800 rpm so you want to have a first gear where you can get to that rpm as fast as possible. So with the ls first gear you would just have to wait that much longer to spool the turbo.

[tran_nsx]

hey guys, i really don't see the point in this gear swapping issue, especially when its only the first freaken gear. if u think about it, the gsr's most important gear is third, this is where it would catch up to the ls small lead and then pull away. the ls' is torquier (dam i think i made the word up ) and reaches its peak torque faster than the gsr would. in other words, the ls is going to get a better jump in first and second.


however; this is only first gear, its not like one is more superior than the other, when u floor it, first gear goes by like nothing. if u add the ls' 2nd gear also maybe that would help you pull away, but honestly i think there are better and less expensive ways to get performance. for example, having your turbo get ceramic ball bearings or turning the turbo into a hybrid by replacing the turbine side for smaller size. this will definately give u a better spool up time. with the first gear thing, i just don't see it.


oh by the way, what motor do u got? if u already have the b18c1 and want the pull from the 818b1 then get an ls tranny so u can ls/vtec it (b18b1 motors are pretty dam cheap compared to the 818c1's, so getting the tranny might even be cheaper), now u get the best of both worlds sorta like the t3/t4 hybrid, which is basically what the ls/vtec is, a hybrid. sound like a lot of things to do, so like i said before, i would just put some money in the turbo instead, makes life so much easier.

[tran_nsx]

Originally Posted by boosted331

The car with the GSR trans will accelerate faster, both in town or on the freeway.

gsr's tranny isn't all that without the vtec head, yes it rev's faster, but that doesn't nessecarilly mean it will accelarate faster. i bet if u remove the vtec head and put an ls head on the gsr tranny and raced it against an ls motor the gsr will lose. this will probably never happen though since its a waste of money and is pretty pointless. on the other hand, an ls tranny and gsr head equals a potent combo.

[Tranzlogic]

im running a hybrid already on a TD04 base, the plant is a b16a2 6:5-1..crower stage 2 turbo cams and fully built top and bottom, so im good as far as my plant goes, thats why im just at a dead end as to which tranny i want to suit my needs for around town hard driving and pulling but with ocasional track nights

[quick95civic]

being that you have a b16 built for turbo you wont have much torque out of boost to help you get off the line in around town driving so you need a first gear with a high ratio so you can get your rpm up as fast as possible. That allows you to get into boost, so the ls first gear would just make you struggle a little more to get into boost where the gsr first would help to get a little more torque to the ground to get the car going. The gear ratios basically multiply your torque so you want to produce as much as possible to help you put down more power if you want to jump off the line.

[duplox]

before i say all this, remember that I work on big 60s v8s, not 4cyls, so lack of low end torque even on turbo cars is something pretty foriegn to me.. but I do know a thing or two about gearing and turbos.

I would have to disagree with most of the posts on this. Turbos are dependant on load on the engine, not specifically RPM. Any of the guys drivin turbo cars here can see this - floor it from 1500rpm in first gear and watch to see when boost comes on. Then floor it from 1500 in third or whatever higher gear and see when boost comes on. It'll be significantly lower. The turbos in my dad's audi TT will spool at around 3100 in first, in fourth or fifth around 2400-2500. If you run a really high ratio gear, you may not even see boost in first gear. I personally would rather put a low ratio gear in there and see boost pull through most of gear. I had 4.20:1 ratio gears in my mustang when it was n/a, now that its bein turbo'd i lowered them to 3.50s, and probably should go lower. In addition to seeing boost for more of your RPM range, a lower ratio gear will mean you have to shift later... shifting takes time and is no good for speed. It may allow you to avoid shifting once when you're racing someone, which would definately make your car quicker.
If you REALLY want to make your car spool fast, put an extra fuel injector or two in the plenum that you can activate. Hook up a NOS ignition retard module into your ignition(MSD makes all this kind of stuff) wire them together so when you hit a button it'll retard the ignition and add fuel. I'd also rig it up so it only works at WOT(i dont think having your turbo tryin to blow past closed throttle blades would be terrific for the life of the turbo) and so that the whole thing turns off when you hit your desired boost level. The retarding of the ignition and extra fuel causes very high exhaust gas temperatures - turbos like high temperatures. this will make for a pretty much instant spool. I dont know about EFI though - your computer might get confused and freak out and cut your fuel supply down because it sees a massive rich condition w/ the O2 sensor, then when your extra injectors turn off you have a spooled turbo and no where near enough fuel, which obviously means a lean condition and a nice hole in a piston(if you're lucky!). I'm doing this setup on my car but I have a carb so its easier, dont have to worry about it causing a lean condition. This isnt the best thing for the life of the turbo, but if you only use it every so often it shouldnt make a huge difference. Combine it with a very low ratio gear and you'll be in for a ride... make it spool at 1500 and watch it pull all the way to redline. With a steep gear that might be your 0-60 right there, no shifting! But that'd have to be pretty steep...

[Tranzlogic]

yeah, well see thast what i have always said and thought..but I hear about how much better LS trannys are for turbos all the time. About how they are able to be dropped down as much as 2 gears for a rapid rpm gain for blowin by people basically. But the GSR makes more scence to me as far as acceleration..but i dont know about thier gearing as far as to be able to be dropped down like that

[boosted331]

A honda with a first gear that lets you hit 60 MPH would accelerate much slower than a honda with normal gearing. The tighter gearing gives you a mechanical advantage, allows you to put more torque to the wheels than you do with a numerically lower gear. The extra fuel injectors/pulling timing thing isn't going to work too well either, if you want to build boost off the line go buy a 2-step. A 2-step combined with the shorter GSR or ITR gears will give you boost right off the line, much quicker acceleration due to the tighter gears, and you would have overall a much faster car. Yes, a taller gear will load the motor more, but it definitely will not be faster. If you want to try out this first gear to 60 MPH experiment, go drive an ITR. Second gear with an 8500 RPM redline and stock height tires will let you hit 60 in second gear. If you launched off of a 2-step in second in an ITR the only things that would happen would be the car would bog down and stall, or if it didn't stall the engine would still bog hard and you would fall right out of boost again.

[Tranzlogic]

my scentiments exactly...so i guess ive just had people blowing smoke up my a$$. Cause I am leaning towards a GSR with a type R or phantom LSD..

[Tranzlogic]

its just hard cause each way seems to make sence...

[tran_nsx]

u guys are forgeting some variables into all of this. first off in stock form, the ls is better for forced induction. i don't feeling like debating about this over and over again, yes the b18c1 has a shorter gear ratio, yes it has vtec and lets say it does boost quicker. the question is- would you rather settle for a little quicker boost maybe about 500 rpms faster, but can only safely handle 8psi with about 230whp and 170 lb/tq, or use the ls and have boost a bit slower but can handle 12 psi with about 250whp and about 240 lb/tq? i'll take the ls any day. this again i just want to make sure is the complete motor and not about first gear.