Replicas

[Adrenalin Trip]

Theres many points about this thread that I could spend hours answering. I won't because there is no point. I am a replica builder. I would love to own a real one but I can't afford it, or rather, afford to run and maintain it. However, and this is the one area I want to address, I won't settle for a replica that in my opinion carries visual differences to the real thing. The silver replica talked about early on is a prime example. The amount of work, time and money that has gone into that car makes me respect the owner no end, but personally I wouldn't be happy with it for the reason's someone mentioned ie wheel gaps. front fender widths, sv scoops being incorrectly shaped etc.

My point is that not all replicas are based on the IFG car and there are quite a few alternatives now that have moulds pulled from a genuine Diablo shell. My replica is one of them. See www.lamboreplica.co.uk/body.html and scroll to the end to give you an idea. Yes, your man is right, it takes a lot of filler and sanding to get the bodies right but it CAN be done. Also see www.paralleldesigns.co.uk/gallery.html and scroll down to the pics of the orange gtr (and before anyone says, no it doesn't have the original front fenders (yet).

Personally I would never knock a real Diablo, or it's owner, and most guys that do can appreciate why someone would build a replica, but I'm just trying to point out that there are lookalikes, and there are replicas. Personally I would rather put my money into a replica that looks right than spend XXX on the engine. For that reason I went for a spaceframe chassis (so I at least sit in the right place), a body pulled from a genuine car, genuine lights, glass, window frames, interior mouldings, exact copy wheels, genuine wiper arm (God that cost a packet), genuine locks, handles, interior door pulls, ignition barrel (had to have the Lambo bull on the key!) and a full set of genuine badges. Sure, theres loads of things on my car which aren't genuine, or a poor alternative to the original (like the very low powered Buick/Rover V8) but these are things that I decided were not important to me.

At a fully built cost of around £35K (about $52K?) it's going to give me what I can afford, but more importantly I will be able to drive the thing when I want, as much as I want. If it goes wrong, I won't be heading off to Lambo with a wad of notes either, more likely over to the local Rover dealer...

Cheers to all

Nathan.

[Diablo_Jota]

i must admit with a replica you still get that evil devilstyle, but nothing else lambo at all like that magnificent V12. what engine and drivetrain others use in their replicas? mclaren? bmw? ferrari? or american muscle?? auto box or 5 speed? gearbox in front of engine??
i'd probly buy a diablo replica on mclaren f1 or koenigsss?? running gear and engine
of course if i had the money which i'm working on

[lovetogofast]

Originally Posted by Adrenalin Trip

At a fully built cost of around £35K (about $52K?) it's going to give me what I can afford, but more importantly I will be able to drive the thing when I want, as much as I want. If it goes wrong, I won't be heading off to Lambo with a wad of notes either, more likely over to the local Rover dealer...

Cheers to all

Nathan.

to be more realistic a fully built good replica would run ya around 65k-98k.

[Adrenalin Trip]

OK, say that I bear with you (and accept that my car isn't 'good' enough for you) a $65K replica is still far cheaper than a real one unless you're another one of those people who insist that replica owners should just go out and buy a real one for the money they have spent. I've seen £55K ($80K) genuine Diablos. They ain't worth mud IMO.

[lovetogofast]

Originally Posted by Adrenalin Trip

OK, say that I bear with you (and accept that my car isn't 'good' enough for you) a $65K replica is still far cheaper than a real one unless you're another one of those people who insist that replica owners should just go out and buy a real one for the money they have spent. I've seen £55K ($80K) genuine Diablos. They ain't worth mud IMO.

lol oh no...im all for replicas heck too many people bash on replicas i think but the truth is if you take it out on the roads virtually 98% of the people out there would not know the difference saying that its a good complete bulid inside and out, ive seen it with my very own eyes since there are 2 of them that live in my area. but that would depend on the person again....if i had the money of course id buy the real deal but right now a replica will do nicely for me....plus i want a daily driver so it works for me! with that being said ive also seen alot of crappy ass replicas out there as well for like 35-40K on ebay that dont do it justice...ick.

[Doucette]

North American Exotic Replica Cars Inc. even replicates the engine. That seems to be the problem that people have with replicas, it's more about looking like the real thing as opposed to being (like) the real thing.

North American Exotic Replica Cars Inc. website:
http://www.naerc.com/

"Engine Bay Replication Parts Are Now Available":
http://www.exoticreplicacars.com/htm...in.shtml#cover


"Whether you are running a V6 or a V8, ,whether your engine is cross mounted or longitudinally mounted, when you open your deck lid everyone will swear you are running a Lamborghini V12!"

[Jason Doucette]

lear60man, you have some good points, as well. Here is my reply:

You said the people you know with Diablos sold them for reliability issues, and you agree that reliability declines with performance increase. This is what I was trying to point out... If your replica has far less power, then the reliability will be better (given all other factors are the same). Buying a race car (we are not talking about luxury cars, here) dictates that you are going to feel more bumps on the road, and there is usually going to be more repair bills.

Regarding build quality: I think we may be speaking about two different terms. Often discussions turn into arguments over a definition problem. I define build quality to be, not only the expertise of the person building the car, but also that of the materials being used, and the quality of the machines used to create them. I agree that an expert craftsman can do just as well a job as the people putting Diablos together, and I agree that anyone (even a Diablo builder) can have a bad day. I am sure this is evident in some exotics running around today, if you care to look closely. So, what I believe separates the original from the replica are the quality of the materials, and the quality of how they were manufactured into the parts that are used to build the car - and not necessarily the expertise of the craftsman (although I am sure they are well above average).

> So I guess the original question still stands. Is a Replica better than the original?

I have respect for people who can build their own cars, even if it is a result of them being unable to find a car out there that they like. However, building your own car and building something that resembles another car (to fool other people into believing you have the original) are two totally different things. If it is built to resemble and perform (as good or better) than the original, then that's a different story. For example, some 427 Cobra replica builders make Cobras pretty much exactly the same way the originals were built, even the same engines, and are very comparable on the track.

...however, and it basically boils down to this...

If a replica builder can make a Diablo replica that is as good (or better) than the original in all aspects (I do not mean just 1/4 mile ETs), then why couldn't this guy merely change the body to his own design, and sell a $250,000+ car. It would run with the big boys, and would certainly be desirable.

[lear60man]

Jason, thank you for the well thought out reply. I was also, as others on this thread, a nay sayer to the whole kit thing. But with the invention of the internet the trial and error period for making custom cars is closing. I guess I dont want to make my own design because of the fabricating of pieces and time involved. I can write a check and now purchase the body off molds pulled from an original. For me the perfect car is one that goes like a bat out of hell, looks awesome and is reliable. If anyone asks I'll fess up in a second. I worked in Hollywood as a propmaster. I made countless props that were identical to originals from a toaster to full scale aircraft mockups. For me half the fun is in the building / modifying process. So in the end I am one of thoes people who is going to be driving a car that is exactly what he wants because I made (or had it made) to my exact specs.
Cheers

[Adrenalin Trip]

Originally Posted by Jason Doucette

lear60man, you have some good points, as well. Here is my reply:

You said the people you know with Diablos sold them for reliability issues, and you agree that reliability declines with performance increase. This is what I was trying to point out... If your replica has far less power, then the reliability will be better (given all other factors are the same)..

Reliabilty DOESN'T decrease with performance increase, (at least not with the power to cc figures we are talking about) you should just be building the car accordingly.

This is one area which is a sore point for me. I don't buy into the 'Diablos & Ferraris etc. are allowed to be unreliable because of the power they produce' scenario. I owned a TT Supra with the HKS big twin kit/cams/uprated fuel system etc. before I started my replica and at around 550~600bhp on the stock engine with pump fuel they will perform for years and years. The first one we built 7 years ago (on a big single) is still around and has had nothing more than an oil change every 3K and 2 cambelts. Look at the reliability of 450bhp+ Porsches- they can do it, why couldn't Lambo and Ferrari?

Much as I love Italian exotics it's fair to say they have been getting away with murder for years simply because people get sucked into 'it's the nature of the beast Sir I'm afraid' spiel from the salesmen who know that the punters who buy them simply adore the car so much that nothing else matters. Only now, with the Gallardo and Murcielago do I think we will see a change in the reliabilty stakes because Audi would be turning in their graves to be associated with the known reliability problems of the past.

Love the italian exotics for what they are, but don't ever kid yourself that it's not possible to build a reliable, powerful engine, or indeed, a reliable car just because it's overall performance is on a higher plane.

Cheers

[Jason Doucette]

lear60man,

I understand where you are coming from. In reality, the amount of work you are placing into creating the vehicle is something you would normally be paying for, if you bought the exotic. So, it is potentially possible for a person to create something as good as the exotic for much cheaper, only because you are not paying yourself for labour. On the other hand, you need lots of money for researching and testing. They spend millions of dollars on this for their cars, and without a wallet that is that deep, you would never be able to match your car against the original. Basically, what I mean here, is that it is unlikely that a replica would beat an original on the track, even if it had a more powerful engine - because there is a lot more to a race car than a frame and an engine. Also, you must consider the opportunity cost. The amount of time you are working on the car, apparently saving money, you are spending away from your real job in which you could be making money. But, nonetheless, I can understand where you're coming from... It is far cheaper for you to buy the pre-made design on the Lambo than create your own. And, it certainly takes talent to produce quality replicas. I just think it is a sin that people are buying engine covers to pretend their V6 or V8 is actually a V12. There's something about that that rubs me the wrong way. I would buy a good Cobra replica in a second, because I believe they are as close to the original as you can get - same engine, looks, performance, etc. Of course, this is my personal opinion...

Adrenalin Trip,

I think you missed the point. The point was, if you have two identical cars (i.e. a Diablo original, and a Diablo replica that is made as close to the original as possible), and you test the cars with the V12 in the original, and a Corvette V8 in the replica, then the replica will be more reliable. I am saying that this is not a fair test.

I agree 100% with you that just because a car has a lot of performance, it is not an excuse for it to be unreliable. Take a look at the folks at Lingenfelter - they have some pretty impressive upgrade packages, but they also have (if I am not mistaken) 100,000 mile warranties on them, so they didn't just add turbos to make your Vette have 700+ HP, but they ensured the rest of the car is up to par to handle it. In any case, this is not what I was arguing, and I agree with your points.

[Doucette]

Something just feels wrong about this...






http://www.exoticreplicacars.com/

...and I think the reason someone would dislike this 'pretending' is the same reason someone would dislike replicas to begin with. There's just something wrong with pretending to be something you're not. No matter how perfect a replica is, it is still a replica and not the real thing. I think "Lamborghini" is more than just looks and performance, it's a status symbol and a lot of other intangibles.

I still have a great deal of respect for anyone who can produce their own automobile. Check out http://factoryfive.com/ for example. I do like their Cobra replicas. For some reason, replicating a Cobra does not seem as bad as replicating a Lamborghini. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that these replicas are built almost exactly the same way as the originals, as Jason explained above. A Lamborghini with a V6 is not build the same as a true Lamborhgini.

Factory Five has moved on to building their own super car...

http://factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html
http://factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits...tmrelease.html

...This I have no problem with at all, but if they started replicating Lamborghinis, I would have disliked their decision.

[Adrenalin Trip]

Originally Posted by Doucette

I think "Lamborghini" is more than just looks and performance, it's a status symbol

With a statement like that it's absolutely no surprise that you aren't keen on Lambo replicas.

Personally my cars have all been about personal choice, not about advertising my status. If I was in love with a Skoda I'd be happy to drive that no matter what anyone else thought. I find the Diablo a thing of utter beauty- it is for that reason alone that I wanted one (or something that looks like it )

Fake engine covers...? Hmm....well I've got a fake engine, chassis, interior, wheels and god knows what else so why not?

Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick, but if I owned a real Diablo I'd be flattered that people are being as resourceful as they are to construct an accurate-looking replica. Indeed, I've met a couple and they were both quite impressed although we all knew that it will never compare to the real thing. However, I guess there will always be a few genuine owners who feel threatened that their 150K 'status symbol' looks no different to a well-made 35K replica from 10 feet away.

Bottom line is I'm surprised that the genuine V replica debate gets so heated. Lifes too short to think you're special where a car is concerned. Save a life or something equally as important and then you're special. I could bang on about how I think genuine owners are mugs for allowing themselves to get fleeced by Lambo for what are effectively extremely shoddily-built cars. I won't because we buy these cars blindly on their beauty, and if I had the money I dare say I'd allow Mr. Lambo to fleece me too...

I respect everyone- genuine owners as well as replica builders and always will do. We all have the same thing in common IMO...except maybe....status.

Cheers to all

[Doucette]

Adrenalin Trip, you should have quoted me entirely: I said, "...it's a status symbol and a lot of other intangibles." Status symbol is only one of many intangibles. "Lamborghini" is more than just looks and performance, wouldn't you agree? Otherwise, any replica that looks and performs the same is, in fact, a Lamborghini. Also, wealthy people would then buy replicas instead. This proves there are intangibles beyond looks and performance.

It is no surprise that the first intangible that came to mind was "status symbol" as that's what most people buy cars for. I know too many people that pretend to have more money than they do by dumping it all into their vehicles. Like you, Adrenalin Trip, my interests are about the car, not the status. (Lamborghini become my favorite car in grade 4, before I understood that a Lamborghini was an unattainable car to most of the population.)

"Fake engine covers...? Hmm....well I've got a fake engine, chassis, interior, wheels and god knows what else so why not?"

Good point. But, at the same time, that is my point too. Faking the heart of the car is basically the same as faking the rest of it. My point was that it is this "faking" thing that drives replica-haters.

I'm not sure if genuine owners would ever feel threatened, as they know they have the real deal. Genuine owners also know that replica owners can't fool as many people as they would like. Word gets around quickly.

I don't think this debate is too heated... we are all in close agreement with both sides. In the end, cars purchases are based on impulse and emotion, not logic. Some people will always hate replicas and others will not.

"I respect everyone- genuine owners as well as replica builders and always will do. We all have the same thing in common IMO...except maybe....status."

I respect the talents of everyone as well, but there is always something about pretending to be something you are not that bothers me. Everything else about building a car from scratch I have lots of respect for. I bet, more often than not, replica owners are bigger car fans than genuine owners.

[lovetogofast]

Originally Posted by Doucette

Faking the heart of the car is basically the same as faking the rest of it. My point was that it is this "faking" thing that drives replica-haters.

I'm not sure if genuine owners would ever feel threatened, as they know they have the real deal. Genuine owners also know that replica owners can't fool as many people as they would like. Word gets around quickly.

i would never say the replica is better than the real deal...but the majority of the population out on the roads(the average joes) will not noticed any difference fake or not and most people out on the streets WONT even care as most of them just admires the car for its rare beauty since they have never seen one. i know a guy who owns one who lives right down the street from me and he does NOT try to fool anyone saying its the real deal cause you can tell cause he has the v8 cadillac emblem in the back of his lambo replica so obvisoulsy he is not trying to fool anyone. i talked to him before and hes a really nice guy and had told me that it was a replica right from the start...trust me when you see his car in person the last thing on my mind would be "bah your car sux cause its fake"....the attention to detail on the well built ones are so amazing and when he drove it down to the boston car meet he nearly got swamped by people giving him praises even though people knew it was a replica....heck it was the main attraction of the show! so just because the word gets around that its a replica isnt really going to keep people away from admiring the beauty it since they are so rarely ever seen on the main roads anyways. besides replicas or not how many lambos do people see out on the roads? for me if someone wants to buy a real one great! if they want a replica that is also great! just give me a few cars to look at out on the roads is all i ask

[Doucette]

lovetogofast, good post. I have no problem with the guy who lives right down the street from you. I admire anyone who can build a car from the ground up. It's an amazing process. I know that I'll never have the time (nor talent) to do so myself.

If your friend down the street were to drive around my town, I would definitely be checking out his car, no question. I agree with everything you posted. The only problem I have with replicas is the pretending to be something you are not, and it sounds like the guy down the street is legit.

(Could you post pics of his replica?)