Rare Grand National

[MonteRacer87]

My Friend is trying to sell me a 85 Gran Nash and he claims it's supercharged is this a rarity car? or what?

[Hypsi87]

Grand Nationals are turbocharged not supercharged. There are alot of myths about these cars like for example... The GN's had a twin turbo, The GN was not turbocharged buth the GNX was, The GN had a twin turbo v-8, All myths. The fact that he said it was supercharged tells me that he does not know what he is talking about just be careful. The '85 was kinda rare but noone wants them they where what is called a hot air car. There is no intercooler they where rated at 200 HP They are not as fast as the 86 and 87 GN's... They are intercooled. If you are serouis about a GN your should really try to get an 86 or a 87. Just out of curiosity how much does he want for it???

[MonteRacer87]

He wants I think he said 5g but it has massive stuff wrong with it such as a bent crank and it's in primer

[Hypsi87]

Originally Posted by MonteRacer87

He wants I think he said 5g but it has massive stuff wrong with it such as a bent crank and it's in primer

ummm bent crank?? in primer it's worth like 1,500 mabye....if it still has a good interior. he's trying to rip you off dude

[MonteRacer87]

the crankshaft is like bent i dunno from what i guess he almost blew/dropped a cylinder but if it is a rarity item then 5g could be 20g down the road. But I already sepnt the money on some mickey thompsons and 4.56 ring and pinion

[Hypsi87]

20g way way way way way way down the road. Man That car is not worth it. If you don't beleve me ask tman he will tell you the same thing

[Tomsriv]

Those cars go for ridiculous high prices. Decent running cars go for 8-25 thousand. 5k is a bit steep for a car with a bad engine and paint though.

[Hypsi87]

86 and 87's go for high prices but 85 and back don't go nearly as steep as the later cars everyone wants an intercooled car.

[Dude weres my dsm?]

i wouldnt waste your money on an 78-85 go for a 86-87, and if you still dont under stand ask yourself this. Whats better?
Turbo NO/IC - 200hp 14.1 1/4 stock?
Turbo w/IC - 245hp 355lbs/tq 13.5 1/4 Stock (with good driver)

yeah,.. get a GN, or a ttype, or soemthing, just NOT that 85 or under

[RACER H-4]

buick GN are single turbocharged 3.8l V6

the GNX had some other modifications but was still only a 3.8T




some people have made twin turbo kits for them and they make raunchy power but the engines are not as problematic as alot of ppl make them sound

the castiron 3.8 engine wether SC or TC are damn near bulit proof


BTW the turbos from the GN and GNX are ceramic ballbearing turbos and u can only get replacement stock turbos form GM because of that

[Hypsi87]

Originally Posted by RACER H-4

buick GN are single turbocharged 3.8l V6

the GNX had some other modifications but was still only a 3.8T




some people have made twin turbo kits for them and they make raunchy power but the engines are not as problematic as alot of ppl make them sound

the castiron 3.8 engine wether SC or TC are damn near bulit proof


BTW the turbos from the GN and GNX are ceramic ballbearing turbos and u can only get replacement stock turbos form GM because of that

I was going to lock this thread but, there is too much wrong info here to not speak. Noone ever made a twin turbo setup for the GN's. That you see with twins are HEAVILY modified stage blocks that run 8 and faster. Also the fastest turbobuick right now is a single turbo setup. The GNX was the ONLY turbo buick powered car to get the CERAMIC turbo. Ballbearing turbochargers werent even invented back then. the dawn of ball bearing turbochargers was like in 97 or something like that.

[Mikes Mechanics]

As far as buy a Grand National that is in rough condition. Dont waste you time. Espeacialy for 5 grand. You will be wasting your moola. No the 1985 Grand National did not come with a Supercharger. It only can with a Turbocharger. The engine was only a generation 2 block. It wasnt a bad engine but it had no guts. That also was the last year for the Sequential Fuel Injection which was a poor fuel system. It was a fuel dumper and cause a lot of problems.

The 86 and 87 Grand National were the better of all the years they were built. 1986 was the first Generation 3 block that came out with the Turbo Intercooler. What made this engine even better that was the first year they start using the roller cam and roller rockers. Also they came with the first Direct Ignition System(no distibutor). The coil pack was 3 times hotter the the standard ignition coil. The next up for this engine was the new fuel system called the Multiport Fuel Injection a more refined system. Now everyone was lead to believe that this engine from the factory was 245hp, but the truth was that because of the emmision standard set by the EPA in those years they could not rate it higher. The actual horse power was over 300hp. Now they backed up this little monster with a 200 4r trans with a modified valve body which gave it the hard shift from first to second gear causing a chirp from the tires.

The 1987 GNX was a monster by itself. It was a GN that was shipped to McLaren to have some modifications done. Such as the ceramic turbo bearings. Also there was a modification done to the timing. the cooling system was modifided to make the engine to run cooler. The Throttle Body was replaced with a larger bored body. The fuel system was modifided with larger injectors. The DIS coil was replace with Bosh Coil packs 3 separate. The Trans was beefed up inside to handle the extra hp. The most intriging thing that was done to this car was the rear suspension. They added a link system to it that was called a ratchet suspension. This was made to raise the body on hard acceleration to put more pressure on the rear wheels for more traction. The last but not least they lighten up some of the body.

Remember there was originaly only 500 of these cars built but because of a larger demand they built another 28 more. I know this because I worked for Buick when these cars came out and our dealer sold no#497 and my ex boss still owns no#521. The car came from the factory with a sticker price of $28,000 but were sold for as much as $60,000. As far as buying parts for these cars the only way to get them are thru a Buick dealership and you have to have the serial numbers from the car and the parts that you need, because Mclaren numbered them so that these cars couldnt be dupicated. I was a mechanic that was working on these cars and I know them insisde out.

[Hypsi87]

Originally Posted by Mikes Mechanics

As far as buy a Grand National that is in rough condition. Dont waste you time. Espeacialy for 5 grand. You will be wasting your moola. No the 1985 Grand National did not come with a Supercharger. It only can with a Turbocharger. The engine was only a generation 2 block. It wasnt a bad engine but it had no guts. That also was the last year for the Sequential Fuel Injection which was a poor fuel system. It was a fuel dumper and cause a lot of problems.

The 86 and 87 Grand National were the better of all the years they were built. 1986 was the first Generation 3 block that came out with the Turbo Intercooler. What made this engine even better that was the first year they start using the roller cam and roller rockers. Also they came with the first Direct Ignition System(no distibutor). The coil pack was 3 times hotter the the standard ignition coil. The next up for this engine was the new fuel system called the Multiport Fuel Injection a more refined system. Now everyone was lead to believe that this engine from the factory was 245hp, but the truth was that because of the emmision standard set by the EPA in those years they could not rate it higher. The actual horse power was over 300hp. Now they backed up this little monster with a 200 4r trans with a modified valve body which gave it the hard shift from first to second gear causing a chirp from the tires.

The 1987 GNX was a monster by itself. It was a GN that was shipped to McLaren to have some modifications done. Such as the ceramic turbo bearings. Also there was a modification done to the timing. the cooling system was modifided to make the engine to run cooler. The Throttle Body was replaced with a larger bored body. The fuel system was modifided with larger injectors. The DIS coil was replace with Bosh Coil packs 3 separate. The Trans was beefed up inside to handle the extra hp. The most intriging thing that was done to this car was the rear suspension. They added a link system to it that was called a ratchet suspension. This was made to raise the body on hard acceleration to put more pressure on the rear wheels for more traction. The last but not least they lighten up some of the body.

Remember there was originaly only 500 of these cars built but because of a larger demand they built another 28 more. I know this because I worked for Buick when these cars came out and our dealer sold no#497 and my ex boss still owns no#521. The car came from the factory with a sticker price of $28,000 but were sold for as much as $60,000. As far as buying parts for these cars the only way to get them are thru a Buick dealership and you have to have the serial numbers from the car and the parts that you need, because Mclaren numbered them so that these cars couldnt be dupicated. I was a mechanic that was working on these cars and I know them insisde out.

they still used the sequential fuel injection... All the GNs(turbo Buicks)84 and up are DIS, No distribuitor. They never used roller rockers or cams in a stock 3.8 turbo Buick. The bearings on the GNX turbo were not ceramic, the turbine wheel was ceramic. It had the same size injectors, cooling system, and throttle body (the only thing done for cooling was they added the functional fender louvers.) It had the same coil pack as all the GN's, not three of them. It was not called a wratchet system suspension, the suspension was very similar to an F-body car with a torque arm and whatnot ( I beleive it is called a multi link system. They did not lighten the body at all. As these gen two and gen three blocks... all the turbo Buick blocks share the same 109 casting number as the old carbruated 3.8.

Im gonna start calling this thread Step up to the plate and see what you accually know

[Mikes Mechanics]

Hypsi87 it appears that you know something about automotive products. It seams to me that you dont know much about the Buick Grand National. You see the info that I posted comes from many years of working with Buick, 26 years to be exact.

You were right about correcting me on the SFI system. I did mix that up. It was the MPFI on the original National. (Multi Port Fuel Injection). In 1986 the National had SFI which was the better sytem(Sequential Fuel Injection). In the 1983 Grand Nationals the used the 4bbl Quadrajet carborator with the offset intake manifold. Thanks for correcting me, I guess the old saying is true that I will forget more than you will learn.

As far as your statements about the GNX I will just right them off as to you probably never seen one close up never mind worked on one. I had the pleasure to work on the only two sold in my area when they first came out of the McClaren Shop. I still work on one of them today.

Now as far as the Generation 2 and 3 Buick engine blocks, they were similar as far as the actual visual, but they were no where the same. The 1984 did not use the DIS ignition system because GM did not install DIS until 1986. It only came on two engines then, the 3.8C engine and the 3.8T. All other GM engines had distributors until 1986. The Generation 2 block did not have the strength that the 3 had. It did not have the same oiling system. If you knew anything about Buick engines you would know they had problems with the oil pressure in earlier engines. The problem stemed from the cam bearings. They dont even use the same oil pumps, The Gen 2 still used the external gear pump and the Gen 3 used the internal vein pump. They did use roller rockers and cam in these engines because they had problems with the hydralic tappets colapsing in the Gen 2 engines under hard acceleration. Here is a little more info that I didnt add in my first posting The crank shaft in the Gen 3 was a steel crank shaft as compared to the cast iron crank shaft in the Gen 2. The block itself had more strength added to the block skirt. To compare the 2 and say they are the same is utterly ridiculas. If you were to build up a Generation 2 block to point were it developed the same horse power that the 1987 Buick Grand National and the GNX had, you would be probably picking up the parts and cleaning the oil spill off the track on your first pass.

You see Hypsi87 I dont know what you know, but do you think I would have wasted my time posting the long post that I first did and now another? I usually wont argue with anyone when it come to cars. Everyone has the own Ideas and oppions about what they read or dont read and just make up. While I sit here reading the 1987 Buick Grand National service manual and the supplement sevice manual I will post only the facts straight from the books.

There is one other thing that I thought I would throw in. The year 1987 the had 2 cars very similar or maybe you would say the were the same. They had the Buick Grand National that we all know and love. They also had the Buick T Type which also had the 3.8 SFI Turbo Innercooled engine.(not to be mistaken with the 307 Oldsmobile engine) Did you know that the T Type was actually faster then the National. Yes its true, in the quarter mile tested by GM The National ran a 13:01 and the T Type ran a 12:98. This was because the T Type was 200 pounds lighter the the National. You see the wheels and seats weighed less.

If there is anything else you would like to discuss as far as Buick I own many service manuals from 1976 to 1990 maybe I can be of assitstance to you.

[Hypsi87]

Well I own a GN and I go to the GSCA nationals every year (Last year there were 45 GNX's there. Also I am an active GSCA member. I have been around turbo Buicks for awhile now. I know what I am talking about. There was not a stock GN or T-type that could touch those numbers man. Trust me, if my 1987 GN had a steel crank and a roller cam. I would not worry about setting my rev limiter at 5500 RPM.

I don't know who you are trying to BS here.

I eat, sleep, and drive Turbo Buicks. I know my stuff.

Ill tell you what, I have the heads off of my car right now, I will go take pictures of my rockers. They are not roller. Also I will go take pictures of my lifters, If I had a roller cam, I would have to have roller lifters.

I know pleanty of people who hit the 11's all day long on a Hot air car. (lingo for pre 1986 Turbo Buicks.)

Welcome to AF man and I hope we can settle this in a civil manner but, I know what I am talking about. Ask anyone here.