H22A V.S LS/VTEC Please help.

[SiGNAL748]

Originally Posted by lost944

why use a h22 with 210 at the crank when you can get a JDMb18c5 which is lighter and also has 210 at the crank and is higher reving which means more time for vtec to give you top end power just go all engine that would be smarter and more empressive

Torque.

[darkerdayz]

Originally Posted by SiGNAL748

Torque.

exactly what i was going to say.

[MastaCivic]

Torque isn't quite as much of a factor when we are considering turboed engines and not stock engines.

In my opinion(this is a true fact even tho i say its my opinion) A h22a in a Civic Hatch running 18psi with a t4 turbo vs. an b18c5 in a Civic hatch on 18psi with a t4 turbo. Who would win? The b18c5. Fuck torque.

If you want an explination of why...

1. The b18c5 can rev out to 9000+ rpms, the h22a goes to around 8ish... this means the ITR engine doesn't have to shift gears as quickly.

2. The b18c5 has a MUCH better flowing head so it will probably produce about the same hp/torque numbers as the h22a(given that they have about the same internal build and cpr). When hp/torque numbers are around equal, usually the lighter car will win, the b18c5 is usually stated as a couple hundred lbs. lighter than the h22a so the Civic with the b18c5 would win in that aspect also.

P.S. The b18c5 would win in stock vs. stock against an h22a anyway, so if they had around the same hp/tq numbers with a turbo build up. It's common sense that the b18c5 would still win. (this is of course under all situations listed, that the drivers were of equal caliber)

[SiGNAL748]

[edman24]

Originally Posted by MastaCivic

Torque isn't quite as much of a factor when we are considering turboed engines and not stock engines.

In my opinion(this is a true fact even tho i say its my opinion) A h22a in a Civic Hatch running 18psi with a t4 turbo vs. an b18c5 in a Civic hatch on 18psi with a t4 turbo. Who would win? The b18c5. Fuck torque.

If you want an explination of why...

1. The b18c5 can rev out to 9000+ rpms, the h22a goes to around 8ish... this means the ITR engine doesn't have to shift gears as quickly.

2. The b18c5 has a MUCH better flowing head so it will probably produce about the same hp/torque numbers as the h22a(given that they have about the same internal build and cpr). When hp/torque numbers are around equal, usually the lighter car will win, the b18c5 is usually stated as a couple hundred lbs. lighter than the h22a so the Civic with the b18c5 would win in that aspect also.

P.S. The b18c5 would win in stock vs. stock against an h22a anyway, so if they had around the same hp/tq numbers with a turbo build up. It's common sense that the b18c5 would still win. (this is of course under all situations listed, that the drivers were of equal caliber)

i completely disagree. you forget to mention the displacement factor. although most honda fanatics dont like to admit it but bigger displacement means more power. the fact that the type r motor revs higher means nothing considering to run 18psi both motors would be built and both could rev about the same. also the h22 would rip the type r off the line stock for stock and considering the fact that after being built they both would be boosting the same the type r wouldnt be able to catch up. also it does not weigh a couple hundred pounds more. thats quite an overstatement. i actually dont know the real figures but im quite confident its not more than 150lb difference but i guess i could be wrong. even if i am wrong, the extra torque more than makes up for it.

the fact that the type r head flows better stock is also irrelevant because both would have built heads and both could flow equally well

[scallywag]

Originally Posted by edman24

i completely disagree. you forget to mention the displacement factor. although most honda fanatics dont like to admit it but bigger displacement means more power. the fact that the type r motor revs higher means nothing considering to run 18psi both motors would be built and both could rev about the same. also the h22 would rip the type r off the line stock for stock and considering the fact that after being built they both would be boosting the same the type r wouldnt be able to catch up. also it does not weigh a couple hundred pounds more. thats quite an overstatement. i actually dont know the real figures but im quite confident its not more than 150lb difference but i guess i could be wrong. even if i am wrong, the extra torque more than makes up for it.

the fact that the type r head flows better stock is also irrelevant because both would have built heads and both could flow equally well

I don't know who told you that the prelude is faster than a itr, but it is incorrect. The ITR wins in a straigt line, and on a track against any prelude that was ever introduced to the US. But if we are talking japans type S, then it is a different story! I have seen these results time after time. With a good driver a itr can run mid/high 14's bone stock! I have yet to see any prelude do that. And ITR's can out handle preludes as well....might be why itr has been the world autocross champ like 5 years running!

[CivicSpoon]

I could be wrong but I believe he was talking about an h22 in a civic not a prelude.

[Frostbyte]

If you can afford to do a Built H22 Turbo or a Built ls/vtec turbo why didn't you just buy a type-R or a s2000 and work from there. For a built EX with motor swap and labor and the cost of the car you could have bought an s2000 and maybe some money left over for a supercharger.

[Frostbyte]

Originally Posted by scallywag

I don't know who told you that the prelude is faster than a itr, but it is incorrect. The ITR wins in a straigt line, and on a track against any prelude that was ever introduced to the US. But if we are talking japans type S, then it is a different story! I have seen these results time after time. With a good driver a itr can run mid/high 14's bone stock! I have yet to see any prelude do that. And ITR's can out handle preludes as well....might be why itr has been the world autocross champ like 5 years running!

In which class did they win 5 years running?

[lost944]

that doesnt matter. when was the last time you heard of a prelude winning in any autocross race and the b18c5 would get the jump off the line even though you THINK the h22 would have more power and torque because the b18c5 has 180 less pounds to throw around and redlining high is an advantage because of being able to shirft less frequently which means more constant power power which means faster acceleration which wins races. and i dont care what you think you know a b18c5 will allways redline higher no matter what you do to a h22, if you do the same thing to the b18c5 it will out rev the h22.point is if you start with a better engine your going to end with a better engine.

[Frostbyte]

Originally Posted by lost944

that doesnt matter. when was the last time you heard of a prelude winning in any autocross race and the b18c5 would get the jump off the line even though you THINK the h22 would have more power and torque because the b18c5 has 180 less pounds to throw around and redlining high is an advantage because of being able to shirft less frequently which means more constant power power which means faster acceleration which wins races. and i dont care what you think you know a b18c5 will allways redline higher no matter what you do to a h22, if you do the same thing to the b18c5 it will out rev the h22.point is if you start with a better engine your going to end with a better engine.

What does reving an engine high have anything to do with it? When you are racing auto-cross you want a car that had a nice solid power-band at lower rpms. You do not want a car that you constantly have to wind back up again after going through a corner. c5 motors are good motors don't get me wrong but it also has it's disadvanges. Both motors are great motors but you also have to understand there is a big price diffrence between the 2 motors so if you are going to do a motor swap then maybe you should weight out other things like cost and how much bang you get for the buck. I am rode in H22 swapped civic and I have also wrote in type-R swapped civic and I am telling you right now that the h22 civic is nothing to mess with. The h22 does not need the extra 2k rpm redline the type-R does.

[lost944]

try it out and see the b18c5 will win. and we are talking about a street car not a track car so this guy is going to be runing in a strait line and with that in mind the higher rpms are better to have. and if you want to really get into it run that civic type r and that civic h22 on a track with the same tires and same size fuel cell and see who will win that race... the civic type r because he will consume less fuel and go through less tread on his tires all while being able to go faster though the corners on a better line because he will weigh significantly less, espeacially seeing how civics are already front heavy adding more weight to the front espeacially in a track car will only be digging your own grave.

[SiGNAL748]

You have to put into consideration the torque multiplication factor.

keep in mind a b16a revs higher than an h22a. Put both engines into a hatch and who wins? h22a

I'm not saying the results of who will win are based soley on this factor, but you're basing your opinion too much on the fact that the b18c5 revs higher than an h22a.

I'm not saying a b18c5 will beat an h22a, or that an h22a will beat a b18c5.

just maybe something you guys should think about.

[edman24]

Originally Posted by scallywag

I don't know who told you that the prelude is faster than a itr, but it is incorrect. The ITR wins in a straigt line, and on a track against any prelude that was ever introduced to the US. But if we are talking japans type S, then it is a different story! I have seen these results time after time. With a good driver a itr can run mid/high 14's bone stock! I have yet to see any prelude do that. And ITR's can out handle preludes as well....might be why itr has been the world autocross champ like 5 years running!

yes i was talking about these motors being swapped into civics. i know type r's are faster than preludes. also i think this guy has enough info already. we obviously all have our own opinions about what is faster and better. some more educated than others, but hey, ignorance makes the world go round, no?

and it seems that everytime you post lost944 that you have something to say that just doesnt make sense. you really think because the c5 revs higher that it makes it better? my car redlines at 7k rpm but i would destroy any civic with a c5 in a drag race or autocross. why? i make power from 2000rpm and up to redline. c5 barely moves until 5000. good for larger tracks but not good when there are a lot of low speed corners and short straights as in an autocross course. but you should know this right? i mean come on, you do own a porsche....

[lost944]

Originally Posted by darkerdayz

wtf is a gsr/type-r? which is it, a gsr or a type-r?



looks like someone just burned their own bridge. the heel toe is a dance, come to Jamaica and you'll see what i mean. dumb american...lol, j/k. but seriously, when it comes to cars, what is heel-toe? never heard of that in my life on cars, just the Jamaican dance. please inform me, and dont take what i said to heart, wasnt serious.

a gsr/type r is a less expensive gsr with a type r engine and tranny.