Battery Drain problem

[vanharlin]

Originally Posted by j cAT

don't rush the testing give the battery time to fully charge. write down all high current readings. your looking for current drain and again the rear connector of the alternator appears to cause the battery to run down.

perhaps when the connector is to the alternator , the charge indicator/alt turn on circuit messes up the BCM so that certain equipment does not shut down.

when checking for current drain check with the connector connected then remove the connector.

hopefully someone will have input to help .

Okay, I have the info for you but also have a new problem so lets start with it first. The alternator has quit charging. I,ve had it tested and it checks good. I tried unsuccessfully to disconnect the small red wire from the alternator plug. I didn,t think I damaged it but may have since it is so small and it could be broken where I can't see it, however, with the engine running and everything connected except the alternator plug, I read 5.04 amps at the small red wire pin in the plug. To me, in my old school way of thinking, that might be a signal from the PCM to the alternator regulator dictating what the alternator output should be and if so, that would indicate the wire is not broken and it would be something else. Whats your opinion?

Now for the testing. I have been giving you some erronous information. The battery will go down with the alt disconnected completely. I believe the state of the battery charge was confusing me.
1. With battery fully charged, I have a 1.77 amp draw at the battery.
2. Upper fuse block under hood: Left I/P (Left fuse battery) pulls .52 amps. RT I/P (Right fuse battery) pulls .06 amps.
3. Lower fuse block under hood: RT I/P (Rear Defroster/Radio system) pulls 1.19 amps.
4. Drivers side dash fuse block: CLSTR BCB (Body Control Module Cluster/Ignition) pulls .52 amps.
5. Passenger side dash fuse block: Radio (Radio anplifier) pulls 1.19 amps. PWR Drop (Accomadated Device) pulls .06 amps.
These are the only ones that have draw. I have driven the car with this problem and everything seems to work fine except for the battery drain. The alternator not working has not changed the anp draw. I hope all this makes sense to you. Thanks again.

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by vanharlin

Okay, I have the info for you but also have a new problem so lets start with it first. The alternator has quit charging. I,ve had it tested and it checks good. I tried unsuccessfully to disconnect the small red wire from the alternator plug. I didn,t think I damaged it but may have since it is so small and it could be broken where I can't see it, however, with the engine running and everything connected except the alternator plug, I read 5.04 amps at the small red wire pin in the plug. To me, in my old school way of thinking, that might be a signal from the PCM to the alternator regulator dictating what the alternator output should be and if so, that would indicate the wire is not broken and it would be something else. Whats your opinion?

Now for the testing. I have been giving you some erronous information. The battery will go down with the alt disconnected completely. I believe the state of the battery charge was confusing me.
1. With battery fully charged, I have a 1.77 amp draw at the battery.
2. Upper fuse block under hood: Left I/P (Left fuse battery) pulls .52 amps. RT I/P (Right fuse battery) pulls .06 amps.
3. Lower fuse block under hood: RT I/P (Rear Defroster/Radio system) pulls 1.19 amps.
4. Drivers side dash fuse block: CLSTR BCB (Body Control Module Cluster/Ignition) pulls .52 amps.
5. Passenger side dash fuse block: Radio (Radio anplifier) pulls 1.19 amps. PWR Drop (Accomadated Device) pulls .06 amps.
These are the only ones that have draw. I have driven the car with this problem and everything seems to work fine except for the battery drain. The alternator not working has not changed the anp draw. I hope all this makes sense to you. Thanks again.

lets go thru this one issue at a time . what is the voltage at the /across the battery with the engine running and everything connected including the connector at the rear of the alternator ?

orange wire 12 volts and the red wire should have some voltage on it to turn on the alternator my guess is 5 volts.

[vanharlin]

[quote=j cAT;7034459]lets go thru this one issue at a time . what is the voltage at the /across the battery with the engine running and everything connected including the connector at the rear of the alternator ?

orange wire 12 volts and the red wire should have some voltage on it to turn on the alternator my guess is 5 volts.[/quote

Engine running & everything connected: 11.61 volts at battery (Lights are on)

Engine dead: 12.00 volts at battery. 12.00 volts at orange wire on alt plug. o volts at red wire on alt plug.

Engine running & alt plug disconnected: 11.61 volts at orange wire on alt plug. 5.04 volts at red wire on alt plug.

Update: I found the problem with the alternator. It was the connector plug. Somehow it just wasn't making connection. I've narrowed the battery drain down to the radio fuse. Fuse pulled, theres no drain. Radio and disc seems to work fine. Not sure what next step should be. Do you know if there is a particular module that might create this problem? Thank you.

[j cAT]

so the connector plug was the reason the alternator was not charging. this does occur in the rust belt with the conn pins getting corroded.

so now the battery drain is because the radio equipment is not shutting down . this is the BCM issue I stated earlier with other owners that had this mysterious drain.

the BCM is a secret device that only the GM dealer can program , that is at a greater expense then what would be if a repair shop could handle it.

could be the audio amp portion of the radio system is not being turned off.

post back any further info with this issue .

[Tech II]

A battery drain going on 3 pages, is the result of misinformation and making mistakes in testing.....not blaming you, but it illustrates why electrical problems can be costly in a shop.....if you get a bad reading that sends you in the wrong direction, it's time consuming.....

Tracing circuits can be a problem......but thankfully, you have narrowed it down to the radio fuse.....the next move, is to find EVERYTHING that radio fuse feeds.....a wiring diagram is needed......sometimes your owner's manual will list the circuits of each fuse.....thus you can disconnect circuits that are fed by that fuse to find which circuit is causing the draw....

[vanharlin]

Originally Posted by j cAT

so the connector plug was the reason the alternator was not charging. this does occur in the rust belt with the conn pins getting corroded.

so now the battery drain is because the radio equipment is not shutting down . this is the BCM issue I stated earlier with other owners that had this mysterious drain.

the BCM is a secret device that only the GM dealer can program , that is at a greater expense then what would be if a repair shop could handle it.

could be the audio amp portion of the radio system is not being turned off.

post back any further info with this issue .

Since finding the drain problem was at the radio fuse, I've simply pulled the fuse and there's no problem except I have no radio. The radio functions properly when the fuse is in so I believe you are correct in diagnosing it as the BCM Module and if what you say is true, and I believe it is, the next step is to take it to a dealership for repair. I haven't found a diaghram that shows me what all this fuse powers up but nothing else seems to be effected when the fuse is pulled so for now, I guess I'll do without the radio. I'm afraid a dealership would be very expensive for a repair since it would probably require a new module and recalibration. Any ideas you have would be welcomed. Thank you.

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by vanharlin

Since finding the drain problem was at the radio fuse, I've simply pulled the fuse and there's no problem except I have no radio. The radio functions properly when the fuse is in so I believe you are correct in diagnosing it as the BCM Module and if what you say is true, and I believe it is, the next step is to take it to a dealership for repair. I haven't found a diaghram that shows me what all this fuse powers up but nothing else seems to be effected when the fuse is pulled so for now, I guess I'll do without the radio. I'm afraid a dealership would be very expensive for a repair since it would probably require a new module and recalibration. Any ideas you have would be welcomed. Thank you.

I understand . what I would do is find a fuse that has 12 volts to it only when the ignition is on . then using a jumper wire with a 10 amp fuse ,,, feed the radio power input side of the fuse socket for the radio. do not put a fuse into the radio fuse socket. this should work and not effect anything. key off the radio will be off ..also the radio is low current so it will not effect any other power systems.

attach the jumper fuse power input to the power feed side of the fuse socket that has 12volts to it with the key on. they have this at most auto stores.

BCM can be expensive.. and will require programing

[Tech II]

j cAT, I don't think this has anything to do with the BCM.....I think the radio fuse, is fed by a 60 amp IP fuse, which is bussed to the battery.....

So if that radio fuse circuit breaks off to more circuits, like an amplifier, that has to be checked out.....

I do like your Idea of using an ignition powered circuit ....that will eliminate the draw with the key off.....the circuit has to be able to handle radio current plus what it is already feeding(or you tap into a large current circuit and protect it with a 15 a fuse).....

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by Tech II

j cAT, I don't think this has anything to do with the BCM.....I think the radio fuse, is fed by a 60 amp IP fuse, which is bussed to the battery.....

So if that radio fuse circuit breaks off to more circuits, like an amplifier, that has to be checked out.....

I do like your Idea of using an ignition powered circuit ....that will eliminate the draw with the key off.....the circuit has to be able to handle radio current plus what it is already feeding(or you tap into a large current circuit and protect it with a 15 a fuse).....

the radio fuse is only 10 AMPS. taking power from the ignition powered 12 volts would not effect anything. 10 amps is very low. since this 10 amp fuse solved his drain problem I doubt it feeds some other audio power amp that would have to use more than 10 amps.

the BCM has been reported by others that this was the cause of the mysterious drain. I guess when the key is turned off the radio stays on until the door is opened. then the radio should shut down .

the switched ignition feed being tapped is of a large current capacity. power windows / ac system / etc....

[vanharlin]

Originally Posted by Tech II

j cAT, I don't think this has anything to do with the BCM.....I think the radio fuse, is fed by a 60 amp IP fuse, which is bussed to the battery.....

So if that radio fuse circuit breaks off to more circuits, like an amplifier, that has to be checked out.....

I do like your Idea of using an ignition powered circuit ....that will eliminate the draw with the key off.....the circuit has to be able to handle radio current plus what it is already feeding(or you tap into a large current circuit and protect it with a 15 a fuse).....

You are correct about the 60 amp I/P fuse. My problem is I don't find a ingnition powered circuit on the fuse block where the radio fuse is located, passenger side of the vehicle. They're all powered up with ignition off. As I've stated before, the radio works fine, sounds good, turns on/off with the radio power button, continues to play when vehicle is turned off and turns off once the door is opened. The amplier is located in the trunk. I have unplugged it and that does not effect the power drain. At present, I'm uncertain that it is the radio and I'm hesitant to start clipping wires in an effort to get power to the radio, however, I can't see that removing the radio fuse has effected anything else in the vehicle. Would you know if there is any type plug that adapts to the fuse holder which would allow me to provide power via a toggle switch? Thank you so much for your time.

[vanharlin]

Originally Posted by j cAT

I understand . what I would do is find a fuse that has 12 volts to it only when the ignition is on . then using a jumper wire with a 10 amp fuse ,,, feed the radio power input side of the fuse socket for the radio. do not put a fuse into the radio fuse socket. this should work and not effect anything. key off the radio will be off ..also the radio is low current so it will not effect any other power systems.

attach the jumper fuse power input to the power feed side of the fuse socket that has 12volts to it with the key on. they have this at most auto stores.

BCM can be expensive.. and will require programing

I could not find what you call a jumper fuse, or, I don't know what I'm looking for. Would you please read my reply to Tech11 concerning you guys discussion. I didn' find a fuse that wasn't powered up with ignition off. Thank you guys.

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by vanharlin

I could not find what you call a jumper fuse, or, I don't know what I'm looking for. Would you please read my reply to Tech11 concerning you guys discussion. I didn' find a fuse that wasn't powered up with ignition off. Thank you guys.

this is what / like what fuse jumper I was talking about. all you need to do is find a power feed from the ignition on only as a souce of power then run a fused side wire to the input of the radio side of the removed 10 amp fuse . take the 10 amp radio fuse and install into the fuse holder you purchased .

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...archTerm=fuse+