The Phoenix is not Dead ?

[Woodie83]

The reason you're getting two different stories about re-torquing head bolts is that there are two different kinds of head bolts. The stock ones stretch as they are torqued, should not be re-torqued, and should not be re-used. The ones you just got from 3Tech are much stronger, they should be re-torqued and should be re-used.

Your head gasket does show the typical wrong sized holes, if your new one looks like that, open them up a bit. You also might give some thought to new lifters, they get sticky and contribute to burned valves. EGR is not the AHA factor some claim it is because a clogged EGR system is exactly the same as no EGR and the early cars didn't have EGR and don't have this problem any more than the others. If you have it, keep it clean and working, but I think advanced timing will do more for valve life than most other factors. Burning oil or coolant can burn valves quickly.

For maximum valve life, use SS exhaust valves, new lifters, never use anything thicker than 5W-30, advance your ignition timing to 10 degrees, and don't run it over 70 mph for any extended period.

[Metro Mighty Mouse]

Originally Posted by Woodie83

and don't run it over 70 mph for any extended period.

I'm going to vote pish on this particular statement. I drive 75 on the freeway all the time, hit 80 to 85 fairly regularly and have been above 90 for short periods of time on multiple occasions. I've had the car for over 10 years, about to roll 250,000 miles on the chassis, JDM motor at 160,000 and previous motor expired due to total oil loss from a failed crank seal, (still ran fine for months after being driven some distance with 0 oil pressure), used to live in Texas and ran the AC on a regular basis and no valve problems on the current motor and any on the previous motor I would attribute to the oil issue. I would say that nothing compares to the extra horsepower from the cheap JC Whitney aluminized cherry bomb style muffler, and it sounds cool as well.

MMM

[Woodie83]

Okay, never mind, worked for one guy so it must not be the rule anymore. Oh wait, two engines? Well then, you don't really know, do you? :sarcasm1:

[Metro Mighty Mouse]

Wait, what rule, there is nothing in the owners manual about keeping the vehicle under 70 mph. If the engine is working correctly there is no reason it should not be capable of running 70 to 80 all day long. These are incredibly durable little motors and I will back that up by pointing out it is a popular experimental aircraft motor. My dead engine, which I still have so I can rebuild it when the time has come to replace the motor currently in the car, died around 3 months after having 0 oil pressure for probably a good 15 to 20 miles of driving. Even if it has burnt valves I would relate the problem to the lack of oil causing multiple problems. It actually broke the timing belt when it decided that the damage that had been done and it was time to retire. Up to that point the engine ran perfectly. I suspect the free flowing exhaust also helps to keep the temperature Down helping to prevent burnt valves. The rest of your suggestions were spot on but limiting the cell phones

Keep rolling
MMM

[Woodie83]

Typical overhaul schedule for an ultralight is 500 hours or so, well under 50,000 miles in equivalent automotive use. Sure, none of us would have valve problems if we replaced the valves every 50K.

Don't recall saying anything about cell phones, I'm often working two of them at once while driving my manual transmission car in traffic and smoking a cigarette.

[Metro Mighty Mouse]

Um, yeah, er, the cell phone thing was apparently a cut and paste thanks to the touch pad on the laptop and had nothing to do with the conversation.

Anyhoo, for most of the time I have owned the car I have had about a 100 mile a day commute, mostly done at 75 mph. It had around 50,000 miles on it when I bought it, and it is about to roll 250,000. It went from Texas to Michigan, picked up two additional passengers for three total, and then drove to Longview Washington. It has been used to tow an old Jeep postal vehicle on a few occasions. My point is, if running this engine at around 4000 rpm were a cause of burnt valves, I would have burnt a bunch of them by now.

Power to the Phoenix!!

MMM

[DOCTORBILL]

The weather improved and my life is more back to 'normal'.

Took the head out of the plastic bag and took photos.

The Exhaust Valves are now of Stainless Steel.

I got a "Complete" gasket set via the Head shop - ITM.

Here is what the Exhaust Valves looked like with about 30,000 miles on them.


Pretty sure the center one was from the Number Two Cylinder.

Here is what the Block looks like - I will vacuum the carbon and crap up
with my Shop Vac.


Going to take my time, as always.....have an Exam to grade for my Chemistry
Class and rifle shells to reload (303 British, 8 mm Mauser and 30-30's).

DoctorBill

[doug2060]

That head looks great doc. There nothing like good head!

[DOCTORBILL]

Doug2060 - That's funny...I have a friend named Doug who would say that
exact same thing ! (I agree with you, but I will just leave that alone...)

I scraped the Block surfaces clean with a single edged razor blade.


Then, using paper towel, I wicked out all the Coolant that had gotten into the block Bolt Holes
and wiped the block surface dry of Coolant and/or oil.


Vacuumed the cylinders out and any stuff on the block surface.


I placed the two Guide Tubes (Arrows) into the Block (Upper left - Lower right) and placed the
Head Gasket on the Block.


Gently lowered the Head onto the Block....and Put the Eight Hardened Steel Bolts into
the Head after applying Permatex Anti-Seize Compound.


Then started tightening the Head Bolts in the proper sequence (Chilton Manual) a little at a time
going around the Head....First hand tight then with the Torque Wrench.
But I didn't go to the 54 Ft Lbs required - just somewhat tight.


I decided to leave the Head that way until tomorrow to let the Gasket compress overnight.

I'll take the bolts to 54 Ft Lbs tomorrow and continue on with the Exhaust and
Intake Manifold Gaskets at that time.

Besides - I'm hungry and it is time for a Beer !

DoctorBill

[doug2060]

Looking good Doc. You may want to take that shop vac to your battery when you get a chance. It has a bad case of dandruff from looking at the photo. When you get done you should take a bottle of mean green to the rest of your engine compartment to make it as pretty and shiny as that head.

[Woodie83]

STOP BILL !!!! Take it back off and trim the head gasket to fit the holes in the block. As usual, the gasket is covering up the blowby return ports at the rear corners of the block.

Try to figure out what was causing all that carbon build up. Valve two is the only one that looks right for 30,000 miles, and the carbon in cylinder three is a disaster area.

[idmetro]

Whoa DOC! I must vote with Woodie - pull the head back off and enlarge the oil drainback holes in the head gasket. I have read way too many horror stories about redoing the head only to have the car look like it was fogging for mosquitoes a few minutes down the road.

Here's a thread with a picture http://geometroforum.com/topic/2834549/1/ scroll down to the shot of the head gasket on the block and compare the top two holes (on a plane closest to the firewall) with yours and I think you will see what I mean about the hole size. Those two holes allow the oil to drain back into the crankcase after performing its lubricating duties for the top end of the engine. If those holes are too small then oil pools up while trying to drain down the holes and tends to get sucked out through the pcv system resulting in the afore mentioned mosquito fogging and potential bad things due to oil consumption/loss.

Also I had always read that to get the most accurate torque you don't want to use an extension between the torque wrench and the socket or at worst use the smallest one you have to. Does it really make a difference? I don't know but why risk your work?

[DOCTORBILL]

Alrightie then......

Are these the holes of which you speak ?



I wondered Why The F**k an established Gasket Manufacturer would make the Gasket with
such small holes up there !

But then I thought - who am I to question automotive Manufacturing Corporations....
I don't question the Gods ! Most people think I arrogantly ask too many questions anyway.

We all should contact them instantaneously and set them straight !

It they are too small - why are not the Coolant holes (slots) also larger and some more holes (slots)
at the opposite side of the cylinders ?

Will taking the Head back off screw up the $50 Gasket ?

HOW do I cut the holes bigger - with an Exacto Knife ?

Tightening the Bolts w/o an extension....hmmmm. Like picking your nose w/o your finger....

doug2060 - That "Dandruff" that you see on the Battery is not corrosion - it is Bicarbonate
of Soda ("Arm and Hammer" Sodium Bicarbonate) which I pour on dry after I neutralize the
Battery Acid with Bicarb dissolved in Hot Water (until all fizzing stops).
This procedure keeps any Battery Acid neutralized.

It works very well ! Looks like Bejesus, but it works !

DoctorBill

[doug2060]

That gasket almost completely blocked it off...

[DOCTORBILL]

Wait a minute fellows.....why didn't you tell me to open up those holes BEFORE I put the Head Back on ! ?

That ITM Head Gasket I just used was tacky.

I'd do this, but if the Head Gasket in there now gets messed up, I gots ta pay another $50 to buy one at SCHUCK's.

I looked up FelPro and Altrom (all I could find photos of quickly) Head Gaskets and ALL three Manufacturers
have the same size holes up there....!

So none of you have purchased Gaskets that you hadn't modified before.

I've asked crvett69 what his opinion is. I trust his experience - he works on fleets of Geo's.

To me - He is like the POPE of the Church of Geo Metro Care & Service !

No offense meant, guys.

DoctorBill