Two vs. Four

[94tegRS]

well, that 300 must be a beast, cuz Ive ridden a fairly new 200cc4, and a very new 125cc2. and the 125 smoked it off the line. also a 11 year older 250cc2 was whooping on this new 125 so I imagine a new great condition 250cc2 wouldnt give the 200cc4 a snowballs chance you know where of taking it off the line, the 4 stroke does have a better top speed though, not geared so close, which is probably a major reason the 2 stroke is so damn quick. but riding a 2 stroke in trails is so easy, you dont have to keep em wound out like lots of people tell you, of course you dont really have the slow cruising torquiness of a 4 stroke, but even imn trails, I dont wanna go slow, only if im going around a hella sharp turn or something, and even then all you do is slow a bit on the straight, point the front where you wanna go, downshift and floor it and you end up going where you wanna go.

I know I was pro-4 in the beginning but since riding more bikes Im gonna have to go to the other side, get the 2 stroke, but this is kinda old so Id bet he has a bike already...

[goinbig]

No offence to anyone, but I still can't figure out why people say things like "cruising tourquiness." Torque, unlike what most people believe, is what makes the wheels turn. The more torque something has, the faster/quicker it will be able to travel. If you gear down a 4 stroke, it will also be very quick compared to one that has higher gears. Also, 200 cc's is not very big at all for a 4 stroke, so of course a 250 2 stroke will smoke it...that was not a very good example.

[calgary_redneck]

4 stroke will be the disign of the future there is no doubt about it. The 4 stroke is clean and efficent and delivers a better torque curve and the difference in weight can be made very minimal no too

[94tegRS]

i know what torque is, and I know what it does, a 4 stroke has alot more of it down low, but once the 2 stroke revs a bit it blows away a 4 stroke. I mean look at racing, a 450 4 stroke is against 250 2 strokes and a 250 2 stroke goes up to a 125 2 stroke. and by cruising torquiness I just meant when your going hella slow just cruising through a trail you are gonna be at a low RPM, whihc is where the 4 stroke has more torque than the 2 stroke, yes I made up some BS word to describe it but my point was correct. and for sure the 4 strokes are more efficient and cleaner but 2 strokes are more fun.

[pind]

ok, two cents worth here. For a number of years, my preferred trail machine was a 1990 honda XR600. Big thumper, excellent low end, enough top end to keep my little mind happy, and decent fuel economy for when you are exploring those places you're not sure you should have gone. It wasn't too heavy, and the steering was pretty quick too.
I am not saying that the four strokes are for everyone, I used to race 2 stroke bikes, but, hey, we all get old.

and besides, 2 stroke vs. 4, go with four, prolong the fun for everyone.

Happy trails

[calgary_redneck]

Originally Posted by 94tegRS

i know what torque is, and I know what it does, a 4 stroke has alot more of it down low, but once the 2 stroke revs a bit it blows away a 4 stroke. I mean look at racing, a 450 4 stroke is against 250 2 strokes and a 250 2 stroke goes up to a 125 2 stroke. and by cruising torquiness I just meant when your going hella slow just cruising through a trail you are gonna be at a low RPM, whihc is where the 4 stroke has more torque than the 2 stroke, yes I made up some BS word to describe it but my point was correct. and for sure the 4 strokes are more efficient and cleaner but 2 strokes are more fun.

Haha 2 strokes don't blow away 4 strokes at higher rpm either and if you acually bother to learn anything about racing you will find that the 450 4 strokes that are against the 450 blow them away. It is true that 2 strokes can make a little more peak power for a displacement but not enough to outway the poor torque curve and all the other 2 stroke disadvantages (short engine life,emissions,premixing,bad fuel economy,noise) I have riden both 4 strokes and lots of 2 strokes and I would have to say the 4 strokes are for more fun anyway day.

[goinbig]

For those of you who believe 2 strokes have more torque and are better than 4 strokes, why do cars have 4 stroke engines?? How come if you go to your local drag-strip, you never see 2 stroke muscle cars out there?

Just something to think about. Please don't respond unless you have something inteligent to say!!!

[crwth2]

i'll respond on the drag strip case you cant get any power with a two stroke on the drag strip due to weight of the vehicles on the strip now you take a lighter 2 stroke bore it out and then place a four stroke next to it and yeah your gonna smoke it if they are the same (or close to the same) size and lets be real how many two stroke motorcycles out there ten years or older hasnt been bored out due to the fact that two stroke engines wear out pretty quick if you realy ride them hard

[44014]

so how come in sx the yz450f beat all the 2 strokes and i would put my berger up againt any 2 stroke any day of the week its 600 ways 107kg can accelarate out of 4th from a near stand still no worries and use to do 200kph plus till somthing went wrong with the carby simple get a husaberg....

[honda14]

how come i keep fouling spark plugs. i have a cr125 and now it wont start.

[94tegRS]

Originally Posted by calgary_redneck

Haha 2 strokes don't blow away 4 strokes at higher rpm either and if you acually bother to learn anything about racing you will find that the 450 4 strokes that are against the 450 blow them away. It is true that 2 strokes can make a little more peak power for a displacement but not enough to outway the poor torque curve and all the other 2 stroke disadvantages (short engine life,emissions,premixing,bad fuel economy,noise) I have riden both 4 strokes and lots of 2 strokes and I would have to say the 4 strokes are for more fun anyway day.

ok, but notice the displacements.

put the CRF250X or YFZ250 against thew CR250 and the YZ250. its not fait to compare a 450cc 4 stropke to a 250c 2 stroke and then say 4 stroke is better.

this has nothing to do with bikes but go look at the new etec outboards, they are 2 strokes, and they are cleaner than the 4 strokes. there is now a fuel injector, so no open exhaust port letting out fresh mix, once the exhaust port is closed the injector puts in the fuel so the WHOLE mix is compressed not part of it compressed and part of it escaping and polluting the air so bad. and theres way less parts which is why 2 strokes are alot lighter. I know the cleanliness argument here contradicts my old statement, and they usually are still way more polluting but look at the technology in the evinrudes 2 stroke, clean burning and good power, AND better economy than the 4 strokes.


and about the track scenario, just a dumb comparison. there is no 2 strokes out there because first of all your muscle car came with a gasoline V8 from the factory, how many people can pull their big block and engineer/design a 2 stroke V8 AND machine/assemble it in their garage.

I bet you someday there will be a class for custom built 2 strokes because of newer technology coming out and the power you can get out of them, but I doubt right now youd be allowed to pull up in a custom 2 stroke dragster next to a top fuel, no matter who would win someone would bitch it isnt fair and it just wont happen.

also most 4 stroke bikes (dirt bikes) arent multi valve DOHC water cooled beasts like the MX 4 strokes. there is choiuces of 4 storkes, the 2 stroke you buy, you get the CR250 or nothing, want a 4 stroke you can get a XR400 or the all mighty CRF450

[NaKeDZX]

The reason they find it fair to compare and race double displacement 4 strokes against 2 strokes is that the 2 stroke fires on every crank rotation instead of every other. So a 250 2 stroke makes "500cc's worth" of power in the same number of crank rotations as a 450 4 stroke. It's all in how they make the power.

[94tegRS]

but every time the mix is ignited in the 450, you have 450cc's worth of displacement making its power, even if it does fire half as often. I see your point but I still think its crap.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by NaKeDZX

The reason they find it fair to compare and race double displacement 4 strokes against 2 strokes is that the 2 stroke fires on every crank rotation instead of every other. So a 250 2 stroke makes "500cc's worth" of power in the same number of crank rotations as a 450 4 stroke. It's all in how they make the power.

Different strokes for different folks. Whether you get a 4 or 2 stroke for trail or enduro riding or racing is a matter of personal preference and rider skill.

Here is something that may shed some light on the issue of 4 versus 2
from a leading Guru at Motocross Action Magazine:

Question: "Why didn't four strokes replace the two strokes years ago? It is obvious that four strokes are better."

Answer: "So much for your deductive reasoning Sherlock. In truth, the two strokes are the ultimate motocross racing engine. A two stroke engine weighs less, has fewer moving parts, has a significantly reduced maintenance cost, revs quicker, is cheaper to manufacture and produces
more horsepower per liter than a four stroke."

"If two strokes had been invented yesterday, we would be hailing their arrival as a watershed moment in engine technology. So, why are four strokes dominating now? It is a combination of pending EPA legislation to which the manufacturers must comply, me-tooism on the part of
consumers, and that the fact that four strokes are allowed under AMA rules, considerably larger displacement. Without the extra displacement, no one would be racing a four stroke today."

[NaKeDZX]

I 100% agree with everything he said. I was just offering an explanation of why they see fit to give the 4s a displacement advantage.

I'd still take a 4 stroke anyday. I prefer the way they make power. Like you said, different strokes....