before i buy the 86 i found....?

[grncivicdhr]

ok...so what engine swaps are possible with the ae86 gts? i saw one with a mazda 12a rotary in it, but i'd like to stick with toyota engines. can i get a 4age from an ae101 or newer car easily (like a b18c5 for a honda)? can i swap in any engines from other toyota cars? i want to end up with a car that has at least 230+ hp, if its not possible with the ae86 then i'll be buying a '90 240sx instead, and dropping in an sr20det.

[turbos86]

um, you want 230hp+ on a ae86? I think the 240sx is better for you.
I'm saying this cause having 200 or more horsepower on an ae86 will upset the balance of the car in most cases, unless you are going to drag it or have a racing team.

If you'll settle for 160 to 200hp, there are a few options while keeping it toyota. From the top of my head:

4AG blue top
It's the engine that comes with the car. Do the usual I/H/E and some other bits will get you some where up near the 130-150hp, depending what you bolt on. A turbo set up is also possible and capable of yielding 160on stock internals, but not recommended.

4AG red top
Found in AE92s. This engine has a higher compression than the blue top. It'll make enough power for any ae86 with standard bolt ons

4AGZE
There are 2 types, one from the AW11 MR2, and one from JDM AE92. the Z means supercharged. They push out anything from 140 to 165hp stock.

4AG 20V
These also have two variation, Silver top from AE101 and black top from AE111. Their hp ratings are 160 and 165 respectivly. The silver top features the VVT technology while the black top uses the more advance VVT-i.

3SGE
From SW20 MR2, Celica and Altezza, this engine also utilize VVTi. Althought a kit can be brought to attach this engine into the ae86, it is a very troublesome task.

2TG, 3TC
Found on older corolla before the ae86. They are Dohc and as reliable as toyota can be. Bolt on carbs will easily take the hp rating up near 150.

There are many more options and I recommend you find out more about it before making your desision.

*note, all numbers stated are from what I remember, so don't flame me about it.

[grncivicdhr]

i really wouldn't mind 160-180hp. i'm more interested in auto cross and me and freinds like to race on some twistier roads in my area at night (we time each other and see whos fastest). the problem is that i need to beat an audi a4 1.8t with about 210-220hp. my civic won't do it cuz its only 140hp or so, plus i hate fwd. i know power to weight ratio is the most important thing about the type of racing i like. do you think i can beat this rich prick and his audi (that his dad bought) in an ae86 with any of the above mentioned engine combos? also, that engine you said can be turboed; can i build up the internals of the bottom end to run like 12-14psi of boost, or atleast enough boost to make 180-190hp?

[grncivicdhr]

i really wouldn't mind 160-180hp. i'm more interested in auto cross and me and freinds like to race on some twistier roads in my area at night (we time each other and see whos fastest). the problem is that i need to beat an audi a4 1.8t with about 210-220hp. my civic won't do it cuz its only 140hp or so, plus i hate fwd. i know power to weight ratio is the most important thing about the type of racing i like. do you think i can beat this rich prick and his audi (that his dad bought) in an ae86 with any of the above mentioned engine combos? also, that engine you said can be turboed; can i build up the internals of the bottom end to run like 12-14psi of boost, or atleast enough boost to make 180-190hp?

[balmo]

if your sole reason is to beat a rich kid in a audi a4, then the ae86 is not your solution. you can slap a 3sgt in an ae but that is a lot of work and money, its better to get a more powerful car in stock form, like 240sx. a4 1.8t are pretty fast cars, the ae86 isnt. now if you are talking about canyon runs, thats a different thing. you would be a liitle more concered w/ suspension set-up than hp.

[grncivicdhr]

i have no interest in drag racing at all. i am more interested in handling, i know i'm a better driver than this kid, but quattro makes up for everyone of his screw ups. the thing is that i need handling that will beat quattro (maybe a LSD) and enough hp to pull out of the turns like his car. maybe the 240sx is the way to gobecuase i want 230hp but ineed the potential for 300+. thatnks for your help.

[turbos86]

I see a few possiblities at where you're heading.

Get an AE86. First thing is to get a LSD. Then slap on coil overs or adjustable shocks with good springs if you don't have enough cash. Get some thicker sway bars and change the bushings. Suspension is the key. Do the usual I/H/E for alittle bit more power. Strip the interior. If you're nutz, get a Carbon Fiber hood and JDM front and rear bumper, that'll save you 100kg. With all this, the AE86 should weight about 850 to 900Kg with about 130, 140hp at the flywheel. But that won't guarantee you'll beat the Audi.

With an 240SX, the power is there, so work on the suspension. Practice driving, and the Audi is no match for you if it has a crappy driver.

It's your call.

[Hamsturbation]

you can fit anything up to a 2jz-gte into em
the 5v 4age from FWD corollas bolts into the mounts, but requires extensive coolant passage modifications, and the distributer has clearance issues with the firewall, and some other crap
you can also put in a 4agze, a 3tc, or several other motors i think
for what you want, id recomend the supercharged 4agze, it will give you better mid-low end power for curvy roads

[Lafora]

be a hotstaff wannabe and just slap that good old H badged F20C in there.

240 hp right at ur finger tips.

[Hamsturbation]

s2000 engines suck balls!!!!!!
sure, they have 240hp(at8000rpms), but only 140ft/lbs@7000rpms
unless your a highway cruiser, the powerband on those are useless
nothing like 1-6k of gutless wonder, then 7-9k of some power:P
its a desicration to put anything honda in a toyota anyways:finger:

[Lafora]

Originally posted by Hamsturbation
s2000 engines suck balls!!!!!!
sure, they have 240hp(at8000rpms), but only 140ft/lbs@7000rpms
unless your a highway cruiser, the powerband on those are useless
nothing like 1-6k of gutless wonder, then 7-9k of some power:P
its a desicration to put anything honda in a toyota anyways:finger:

s2k engine suck balls??

tell me one other manufacturer that has ANY engine on a production vehicle that can putout 120hp per litre, can maintain a daily driven 9000 rpm redline AND conform with the emission laws in california.

[206WRX_GDA]

http://www.comptechusa.com/images/dy...comparison.pdf

Look at the the S2000 dyno results. the 240hp is overrated on this. Wheel is only around 200 hp, which isn't bad, but not the greatest. This dyno was the main reason I didn't buy the the S2000. I went with a WRX instead because of the torque range and responsiveness to mods (VTEC not too forgiving on tuning a flat hp curve). I believe some old Mercedes Benz 190E had the record for most whp per liter on a 'conventional'motor, but that was only on UK shores.

Also, don't believe the myth of hp per liter, that doesn't mean anything, especially with the imports. The most reflective measure is hp per lb. Anyway, no disrespect to VTEC, it's a great technology. But if you want to look at it in that perspective, then the 13B rotary is the hands down winner. That's just in my opinion. Oh, here's the facts: 13B Rotary: 1.3 Liter, 160 hp N/A = 123hp per liter...that's 123 wheel hp. Why? The S2000 VTEC motor has 39 moving parts (4 pistons, 1 crank, 2 cams, 16 springs, 16 valves...the Wankel 13b has only 3 (2 rotors and one eccentric shaft).

It's hard to top the output of the rotary, considering how small it is...under 700lbs... Go here if you wanna learn more about the rotaries:
http://members.tripod.com/~HARDEBECK/engine.htm

So to answer your question about ANY production vehicle that can output 120hp/liter, and maintain a daily driven 9000, I'll provide you with one, the Wankel 13B. Anyone know the specs on the early 80's mercedes that had more? All I know is that it had 230hp on a 4 cyl, not sure if it was turbo or not....

Originally posted by Lafora


s2k engine suck balls??

tell me one other manufacturer that has ANY engine on a production vehicle that can putout 120hp per litre, can maintain a daily driven 9000 rpm redline AND conform with the emission laws in california.

[Lafora]

manufacturers NEVER give out HP ratings to the wheel ya foo

13B rotary...blah blah blah.

listen..if you want rotary powered AE86es..to the 20B THAT is a rocket

[206WRX_GDA]

Yes, I am fully aware that manufacturers NEVER give out HP ratings...if you know that, then you should be the last person pushing the S2000. Anyway, 13B all motor would be nice in an AE86, 20B twin turbo would ruin an 86's balance and weight distribution for a street car. But on the strip, there are plenty of 20B's in AE86s and RX-3s...the problem with that is going thru all the DogBoxes. If the money's there, then that's a tough setup to beat...

Anyway, don't be mad, you asked the question...and I just answered it...

Originally posted by Lafora
manufacturers NEVER give out HP ratings to the wheel ya foo

13B rotary...blah blah blah.

listen..if you want rotary powered AE86es..to the 20B THAT is a rocket

[Lafora]

sorry ifi sounded a bit agitated.. i was in a midst of ANOTHER flamewar on a board i frequent..

surprised the HV film crew have never pitted a itb ae86 vs a F20c vs a GZE vs a turbo 86

that'd really show the pros and cons of each setup.