Sentra spec v( turbo or 3.5)?

[daveshapellSVT]

Also, i was just thinking about this. that qr25 can take like double the power then my buddies d series and probably close to the same amount as the b18c. the reason boost is viewed as unreliable is because punk kids buy turbo kids and know absolutley nothing about what they are doing. most kids can't tune and on top of that they do it with the wrong stuff. i mean i've seen many cars blow up of all makes just because ppl are stupid and crank the boost to a rediculous level that there engines can't handle or aren't tuned for. And nissan engines come with block gaurds already in place as where most honda engines don't. or at least the two i have been working on didn't. so really the qr25 isn't any worse or better then other motors ppl are boosting the only limitation is the lack of good softwear and tools to tune with. i posted on the V-board for a long time and all those guys just tune with a S-afc from apex or a greddy e manage. that stuff isn't good enough for cars that want to run higher boost. you need an effective way to greatly increase or reduce timing and you can only do that through the right softwear. I mean go take a look theres plenty of ppl boosted on your motor, heck i even thought about it when i had mine. boost isn't really that unreliable or else they wouldn't put turbo's and superchargers in factory cars. i can think of one person that i know of right now that had a boosted car that he has put 40 thoasand miles on boosted. and he's boosting a decent amount on a stock motor too.

[slideways...]

Originally Posted by daveshapellSVT

can't go wrong with a car thats been moded and raced since the 60's lol

thats why i bought my 240 lol

[nismo_pilot]

lol youre talking about full standalones and motor swaps here, how much more expensive is that than a v6 swap? the turbo kit, lets say you peice on together cheap, around 2500 bucks (thats ridiculously low btw) most standalone engine programs run in between 1k and 2500 depending on what you want, we'll go low this time though, thats 4000 for a turbo kit and standalone, then if you wanna "crank up the boost" you will need new rods and pistons, a new crankshaft and some machine work, forced induction racing will sell a complete rotating assembly that will handle 500hp for around 2000 bucks, pistons rings crank everything, fabbed the way you want it, now youre at 6000 bucks, go dyno tune everything and buy a clutch/flywheel combo and some drag slicks and youre close to 7500 now, and thats being conservative, in that setup you can probably pull low 12's maybe high 11's. now on the other hand you can swap a vq35 into the b15 chassis for 4500 turn key, get yourself a set of drag slicks and some cheap rims to put them on, now youre around 5000, youre good for around a 12.7 right there, if you can drive, instead of boosting it (would be nasty lol) spend that 2500 on a valve springs and keepers, cams and port and polish the head, balance the whole thing and have your ecu reflashed to extend the rev limit and take advantage of the cams, and youre right down there in the low 12's high 11's where youre same car would be if you boosted it, heres the catch, in the turbo budget we didnt account for higher revs or cams or anythign like that, so the qr25 still makes most of its power midrange, and redline is still very close, the turbo probably will not stay at 100% boost in between shifts due to a low redline and slow engine speed, which keeps you from taking full advantage of your turbo, not to mention nothing you have done includes sleeving the block or anything for safety, i know you can build the qr25 to be a badass engine, its not cost effective, thats the whole point of this engine swap, to offer a more efficient way of getting power into our b15's sure you can turbo, its more dangerous unless you do it right, and more expensive PERIOD. and also, the gsr motor is a hig comp motor, he would have needed low comp pistons and new rods, maybe keep the crank but id get a new one too, none of that was included in your post, so either hes running a bunch of boost on a 11:1 compression ratio, (only top fuel dragsters pull that off) or youre full of crap, or you missed something, im assuming the last but you never know


Edit: just reread the part about swapping a motor INTO the gsr, my bad

[daveshapellSVT]

you obviously know nothing about turbo's or what you are talking about. stock b18c compression is like 10 something i believe. i think with his rebuild he went with slightly lower compression. trust me his engine is bullet proof. i didn't build his car or buy the stuff for it so i have no idea of all the parts he has and what not. i just know some of the stuff he has. i know it's sleeved, it has really good pistons and rods, the pistons are heat coded, his crank i'm not entirly sure about. it's also bored a bit. it's almost a 2.0 liter i believe. to hold the power he has different driveshafts(gators i think) that are ratted at like 400whp, and he has a clutch masters clutch and lightened flywheel. he's running a fairly sized turbo that can easily produce the numbers i've been talking about. and with that stand alone he can sqeeze more power out. i'm not saying get all that for the qr25 cause of coarse that costs a lot of money. but you can tune low boost with a s-afc, which is what a lot of them guys do in the specs, as apposed to a stand alone, but your gonna be limitted to your success cause of the lack of tuning abilities with the safc. i think if you made your own turbo setup you could save a lot of money. the one buddy with the crx but one together. he used a srt-4 intercooler, dsm injectors, built his own exhaust manifold, bought a universal intercooler piping kit for cheap, bought a blow off valve off ebay. for tuning i think he's gonna burn his own chip useing uberdata i think. all that stuff he bought pretty cheap. it's not everything you need. as you get going in the build you run into other stuff that you need. if his engine didn't have so many miles on it we would had just ran low boost on it, but it's got 180k on it and now he wants to build it for high boost so we are getting more involved. You could run low boost on a stock head and block on a qr25 easily without rebuilding the bottom end. the thing with going turbo is you have to have some knowledge about it which many don't. i'm not saying i'm a genious in the matter but i have more exposure to it then others. i mean do you see where i'm going with this? to me it's easier to install a turbo kit and run low boost then swap the engine from a fairly new car, which is kinda a lot of work, and then have to build it up with bolt ons to match the power from the turbo setup. we all know how expensive bolt ons are. before you know it your way over the cost of a turbo and your making simular power. and what you were saying about the turbo not making full boost thats just not true. if you properly size your turbo you shouldn't have much lag and most cars make full boost at 3k rpm so everytime you shift you'll be falling into full boost. i agree that aftermarket turbo kits are expensive how else would they make money.

[nismo_pilot]

lol i think you missed my point, i KNOW that you can turbocharge a qr25 and make lots of power, if you do it right (read: spend lots of money) you can even make it reliable, but as far as bang for your buck, you cant hit 12.9 with a turbo and have it be reliable, sure you may be fine for a few thousand miles, but soon youre going to start having problems, now if you take a completely stock maxima motor, add a custom intake and downpipe, throw some sticky tires up front, you can hit a 12.9 if you are a good driver, now a basicly stock motor will have NO PROBLEMS, unlike the qr25 that will sometimes blow up even when left stock, im not arguing that boost isnt an option on the qr25 motor, as it has been done PLENTY, but most of the smart people who boost their qr's also get the block sleeved, go with low comp pistons, and new rods, thats a given. When you want to make sure your car is safe at the boost you want to run, you have to spend more money, which as i stated costs you around 7500 to do the job right, we arent talking about slapping the kit on there and calling it a day. Now you can get similar numbers from a v6 and not have to worry about anything, the motor will handle it just fine. I agree it doesnt make much sense to rip out a motor from a brand new car to swap it, but you also have to think, it doesnt make much sense to turbocharge a motor with weak rods without replacing them, or without lowering compression so that you dont make anything go boom. either way youre going to ruin a brand new car, but if you are interested in speed you want to do things right. Hell if you want to go all out in the sentra, forced induction racing offers a hybrid motor, it is a fully built qr25, with an sr20det crankshaft and custom rods and pistons, everything is forged and built to handle in excess of 500hp, on top of the full engine build there is a massive turbocharger that makes around 20psi of boost, this motor is easily capable of 400whp on pump gas, now theres a boost option for the qr25, but it'll cost ya, its in the neighborhood of 10-15 thousand dollars, but it will be the ABSOLUTE best turbo option for that motor, now you could build the vq35 the exact ame way and make lots mor epower, but if you want the stock engine the hybrid is the way to go

[slideways...]

[nismo_pilot]

anyways thats about it for this arguement, turbo works better than a swap in just about every other car, but in the b15 v6 swap for teh win!!! this thread goes on ignore

[daveshapellSVT]

You keep talking about building the QR25 to handle 500 whp. thats totally unrealistic for the arguement. lets look at some facts. your V6 swap is gonna get you just over 200whp cause thats what those stock 3.5 make. fully bolted your gonna see a max of 260 whp. at that point you've hit a wall and your only option is to either go forced induction or spend some serious cash on a custom NA setup. which would consist of major head and block work. then your reliability will go out the window. also how long do you think that drivetrain will last running slicks at the track? slicks equal unreliable cause you will eventually break your driveshafts or burn your clutch, or even blow your tranny. in a turbo'd 2.5 you could run high 12's on street tires on low boost. i don't know where you get the idea that low boost on a qr25 is unreliable. the only reason ppl blow there motors is because they get stupid and boost too much or don't tune right. don't be intimidatted by boost just because of others mistakes. if you follow the companies specs you'll be fine. all the companies that sell the kits know the limits they won't sell a kit running 8psi so that it would last 3 months on an engine. ppl that blow motors are completely at fault. My point is to make the same amount of power in a v6 you'll end up spending more then a turbo'd 25. cams alone are almost a grand.. NA parts are always wicked expensive.

[daveshapellSVT]

You know the more research i do on this subject the more skeptical i become of that travis dude running 12.9 without nitrous. check out: http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/...jectaltima.php. this fully bolted altima makes 260whp. with that said these guys managed to run 14.1@100mph. the parts list consisted of the following:

AEM CAI- $333.00(on aem site)
Unorthdox racing pulley-$ 196.00
Mossy Exhaust-$575.00
Hotshot header-$ 686.00
Jim wolf cams-$ 1,198.00
technosquare ecu reflash-$495

total is $ 3483, and $ 3761 with tax, not even including shipping. we'll disclude the price of shipping and say you got a good deal on the parts.

Then theres the matter of the swap. i managed to find an older 3.5 for 1800 bucks, again, thats without shipping and tax. then metal to fabricate the engine mounts. the swap alone is gonna cost over 2000 bucks.

So by the time you do the swap and try and make 260 whp you will have spent $ 5,761.00 bucks easily. well over 1000 bucks more then any turbo kit will ever cost you. and whats the weight difference from an altima and a sentra around 500 pounds max. thats worth a half second at the track. Not to mention that sentra is gonna weigh in a little heavier with that 3.5. so with a fullt bolted (260whp) 3.5 dropped in that sentra the best times your gonna see are 13.5 ish. everyone knows 100lbs is a tenth of a second on quarter times. i really don't see how a slightly bolted 3.5 sentra is gonna run 12.9

[fugiot]

A VQ swapped Spec will make much more than 200whp. It doesn't lose 60hp on the way to the wheels.

[slideways...]

dude dave...not every driver is equal.
ive seen an s2000 run 15.5 in all seriousness.
and an STi run 14.7
and a bone stock SRT-4 run 13.8, then one run 14.5

your gonna learn the hard way that everyone knows stuff that you dont. even just from having different life experiences.
so you need to chill out on the long winded spiels trying to convince someone of something they have proof of, just because your opinion differs.

[daveshapellSVT]

well its a fact that a 3.5 engine makes just over 200whp. it doesn't make 260whp. so no it doesn't lose 60whp in the swap but just cause the sentra is lighter isn't gonna give you added power to the wheels.

Yea some ppl do know more stuff then i do, but when you add the facts running 12.9 in a sentra with a near stock 3.5 just doesn't make sense to me from a mathmatical perspective. think about it the numbers don't make any sence.

a 2700-2800lb car with 220whp max isn't gonna run 12.9.

[daveshapellSVT]

http://www.web-cars.com/math/qtr_mile.html

[fugiot]

and yes, the VQ35 IS a 260hp motor. So you're saying it's a fact that it makes 200whp to the front wheels of a Maxima. There's no way a fwd car(meaning no driveshaft), would lose 60 freaking horses on the way to the wheels.

[nismowu]

Originally Posted by daveshapellSVT

http://www.web-cars.com/math/qtr_mile.html

this site looks good.....but somewhat off from the actual number that ppl run @ the track