Civic loses all electrical power-comes back later

[spraydu]

My Civic has been increasingly getting worse. Earlier in '09, the headlights and interior lights would "flicker" when I tapped the brakes or turned my high beams on (not at the same time). After some time, when I turned the car off, the radio lost all power (lost my presets and clock reset). This would happed maybe once in 2-3 weeks. I had my alternator and battery tested and came back ok. Now it loses radio presets/clock once every 2-3 days. Today for instance, I got to work, turned it off and all the power was gone. I took my lunch 5 hours later in the car and still had no power. I turned the key back and forth probably 50 times and the power finally came back on. Is this an ignition problem? Short somewhere? I have checked the fuses and the battery ground, and the wiring harness behind the manifold that I heard might be the cause. Please help!!!!!!!

[DownToGround]

i would inspect the battery wires, and connections

[spraydu]

I found the problem that was making my car act like this. I have copied most of what you need to know from the website that I found this on http://techauto.te.funpic.org/ignitionswitch.php.

Troubleshooting resistance at the harness connectors:


Tools required: an analog Ohmmeter or a DMM and a Phillips and a flathead screwdriver.
Steps:

For your safety and accuracy, remove the negative battery terminal first. (The radio memory may be lost.)
Follow the harness from ignition switch to the fuse box. Disconnect the ignition switch wire harness connector from the fuse box. (Alternatively, you may leave the harness connected and take the readings at the back of the ignition switch if you're certain the harness isn't the problem. )
Enlarge
Set the DMM to measure Ohm or continuity. Touch the red probe of the a DMM to WHT at the harness connector.
Touch the other black probe of the a DMM to BLK/YL. There should be continuity when the ignition is switch to "ON."
Remove the black probe from BLK/YL (but leave the red probe of the a DMM to WHT.)
Touch the black probe of the a DMM to BLK/WHT and turn the ignition is switch to "START. There should be continuity between WHT and BLK/WHT. There should also be continuity between WHT and BLK/YL."
If you don't find the continuity replace the electrical switch.
If you don't find the wire colors as specified on your ignition switch, stop here and consult your service manual.




WHT BLK/YEL BLK/WHT
OFF
ON (II)
START (III)
Measure continuity as specified. A known good reading is "0-Ohm." ( = electrical paths.)



Note: The ignition switch usually fails intermittently under load, meaning they fail only when the car is running. To troubleshoot you may have to use a voltage drop test or apply load and measure the voltage drop.

What is the best way to do a voltage drop test? While the car is running measure BLK/YL and body ground. The voltage should normally read 12V but it should never drop to less than, say, 10Volts when the ignition is ON or the car is running.


Note: Puncturing the wires to check for voltage is not recommended since the internal wires may exposed to the environment. With every puncture the wire should be sealed with RTV silicone. Avoid damaging the female connector terminals, do not insert your probe deep into the female connector, instead lightly touch the terminal's copper surface.

Note: This diagnose does not cover accessories such as the blower motor and etc. This is because they are not mission critical and are simply luxury items which requires a unique set of procedures beyond the scope of this page.












Repairing/Inspecting:
Skills required: Must know how to crack a walnut in two pieces, eat the center and handle cleaning chemicals.



Disconnect the battery negative terminal. Have the electrical switch removed from the back of the ignition key assembly. It is recommended that the work area (above the driver side door mat) is clean and well lit. The purpose of this section is to open the electrical switch then inspect the contacts, the solder joints and the spring load tensions for meeting the technical service limits.
The electrical contacts are the ring and the surface which the ring slides in a circular motion to divert current inside the electrical switch. The ring is the usual place to check for wear, frozen grease or pits. But both the contact plate and contact rings should be inspected and cleaned.



GOOD This can be cleaned and reused, but must be installed properly.

WEAR Under normal usage there is a slight wear.

WEAR THIN This is at a critical dangerous stage and the #2 cause of stalling. Do not reuse.

PITTED This is a sign of arcing which may have overheated and melted the the solder joints. Do not reuse.









Further, check the solder joint terminals, if they show signs of overheating then the joints should be desoldered and fixed.
The benefits of grease are: 1) seals electrical contact points from exposure to air and corrosion. 2) any sparks made during break or make are quashed.
Caution: Use Electrical Contact Grease, other grease could cause combustion from sparks, harden in cold and flow in heat or electrically conductive.
Caution: Do not mix grease.
Caution: Do not over apply grease.
Caution: Use a small precision flathead screw driver to pry open the electrical switch. The switch is made of thermo plastic and very brittle. If not careful they can break.
Caution: The electrical switch is lightly spring loaded. Open carefully and do not let the springs and parts fly everywhere. You might not find any help or diagrams to help you assemble the electrical switch.
Repairing/Fixing: If the contacts are pitted or worn then it's not possible to fix them without using some special tools. However, you may temporary fix it by cleaning the surface then apply a higher temperature rosin core solder into the pits or swap the contact wafers with the non-damage identical ones.
Inspecting: Upon installation a resistance test or voltage drop test should be performed. If the resistance is too high then the ignition switch temperature could rise.





Replacement:
Skills required: Must know how to change cabinet doors. Tools required. 10mm wrench or socket to remove battery terminal. 6 mm wrench or socket. Phillips screw driver. For the 1997 Accord, 1998–99 Accord, 1998–99 Civic, 1997–99 CR-V, 1997–99 Odyssey, 1997–99 Prelude see TSB replacement procedure at bottom of page. For the ignition assembly replacement see "Removing the bolt from the steering column" on this page.


Steps:

Disconnect the negative battery terminal (for your safety.)

Remove dashboard lower cover.

Remove the steering column cover cover. (see image above)

Lower steering wheel if possible and if required. (May require removing several bolts holding up the steering column with a deep socket.)

Make sure the ignition key is turn to "0."

Disconnect the electrical switch harness from the fuse box. This by far is difficult to do by hand. See the image below. On the connector is a locking tab that is inserted onto the fuse box. With a small, short flathead screw driver, insert the screwdriver deep in between the connector and the fuse box, all done by feel only . Now move the screw driver away from the connector but towards the fuse box. The connector should slide right out. Grab the wires and gently pull it out. If it won't come out, push the connector back into the fuse box and retry with the screw driver again.

Remove the two screws from the side of the ignition switch cover with a wrench, monkey wrench or socket wrench. Loosen the two small bolts/screws holding the electrical switch then continue to loosen with your fingers or tools.

Note: To replace the 94-97 Accord electrical switch you will have to disassemble the electrical switch housing (the blue and clear plastic) in order to install. If you don't want to dissemble the electrical switch housing then you will have to remove the ignition lock assembly first. An improper assembly can result in an electrical short in the fuse box.



Unplug the harness from the fuse box by pressing in the locking tab before pulling it loose.

Remove the old electrical switch, taking note where the harness routes.


How to release the connector for the 90, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 01, and 02 (click to enlarge.) For the 1986-88 the switch will look like this image.

To install.

Route the wire harness to the fuse box the same way the original wire harness was routed and plug it in until you feel a snap and snug. (If not snug your car may stall in traffic.)

If you are installing a brand new switch skip to step 7.

Place the electrical switch away from any metal parts or body ground to prevent a short for the next step.

Reconnect the battery terminal.

Use the Phillips screw driver to turn the electrical switch clockwise to start the car to confirm that the car idles for a minute without stalling.

Disconnect the negative battery terminal.

Step 7: Install the new electrical switch with its original screws onto the key assembly. Make sure the new electrical switch is turned to "0," which is all-the-way counterclockwise. (Otherwise the switch will not go in.)

Reconnect the battery terminal.

Start the car with the key to confirm that the electrical switch is installed correctly.

Install the upper and lower steering column cover and the dashboard lower cover.

Finally, only center punch your VIN under the hood to indicate a new replacement if they are replaced with an updated ignition switch supplied from the dealer using genuine parts (this is not for repaired, for used electrical switches or for new switches that is installed improperly.)

I know this drove me crazy when I would be driving and it would cut off when I hit the brakes! Hope this helps at least 1 person.
Greg