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11-09-2005, 12:55 PM | #31 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
Blazee is dead on. A properly balanced and maintained Dexcool based system using the Havoline "Dexcool" product will not experience much trouble. The key is VIGILANCE. There are abrasive, suspended components in the "Green" anti-freeze mix that will wear on parts much, much faster than a maintained Dexcool system. When I got my truck's Radiator, pump, hoses and other miscellany taken care of (including a leaking lower intake seal) I had completely dumped, flushed, and re-flushed the green stuff out and put Dexcool back in. She's happier than ever with a Stant cap topping off the radiator neck.
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11-09-2005, 12:58 PM | #32 | ||
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Re: Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
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11-09-2005, 01:06 PM | #33 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
The Prestone Dexcool is very similar to the Chevron/Texaco/Havoline. They have different corrsion inhibitors, but I haven't seen any research showing one to be better than the other.
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11-09-2005, 01:10 PM | #34 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
God mercy jesus I hope not. I just completely redid my cooling system with it, a new thread is in the works talking about it.
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11-09-2005, 01:29 PM | #35 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
I found some discussion about the different corrosion inhibitors at bitog, it seems that most of those guys agree that it shouldn't make a difference in performance, and that the difference was probably to get around Texaco's patents:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...161;p=1#000010 |
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11-09-2005, 02:07 PM | #36 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
Texaco/Havoline are the folks that made the original factory fill fluid for "Dextron" when the trucks rolled off the lot. With the additive chemistries havin been changed and made a litle more tollerant in recent years, I doubt that Mixing Prestone's "Dexcool" compatible fluids with Havoline/Texaco's going to make one bit of difference. If you're that paranoid about it (like I am) drain the stuff out to be recylced in two, three year intervals and refill with fresh pre-mix or distalled water/straight Dexcool in your usual 50-50 mix ratios.
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11-09-2005, 09:11 PM | #37 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
I am currently using a slightly higher concentration seeing it gets to -40f here in the winter.
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11-09-2005, 09:29 PM | #38 | ||
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Re: Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
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11-09-2005, 09:39 PM | #39 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
Yea, better to go at a higher concentration than take a risk.
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11-09-2005, 10:00 PM | #40 | |||
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Re: Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
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11-10-2005, 12:58 PM | #41 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
I am amazed. Lets see, DEXCOOL has a problem with oxygen? Then waht is water? Don't we need water for the right mix here? What is water? 1 atom and 2 atoms of hydrogen. If this be the case how do you stop DEX COOL from mixing with oxygen? And heat,isn't that what we are dealing with here? And it makes no difference what the heat is set on. Unless you have a heater control valve in the system the water flows thru heater core at the time. When you have heater control valve it closess only during AC request. Your heat blend air door isn't doing anything to the flow of water. A proper maintain coolant system always work the best. Water that we put into car has other elements in it such as iron. Keeping systems service every year will save you lots of problems.
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11-10-2005, 04:27 PM | #42 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
Dexcool doesn't have a problem with oxygen directly, the problems lies within the way that the system acts when oxygen is introduced. The standard green antifreeze is affected by air getting in the system as well, the difference being that it doesn't have the sludging problem.
All antifreezes must be an alkaline mixture to protect the system from electrolysis, the additives are what makes the coolant alkaline. The coolant is much more alkaline than what is needed to protect the system, this is because as the corrosion inhibitors neutralize acids formed anytime that something "attacks" the cooling system, the alkalinity of the coolant is reduced. The extra alkalinity, there to expand the useful life of the coolant, is called reserve alkalinity. When air is introduced in to a cooling system, the air and water mix with metal, and causes corrosion in the form of rust. Wikipedia defintion of rust: "Rust is the substance formed when iron compounds corrode in the presence of water and oxygen. It is a mixture of iron oxides and hydroxides. Rusting is a common term for corrosion, and usually corrosion of steel. Iron is found naturally in the ore hematite as iron oxide, and metallic iron tends to return to a similar state when exposed to air, (hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, etc) and water. This corrosion is due to the oxidation reaction when iron metal returns to an energetically favourable state. Energy is given off when rust forms. The process of rusting can be summarized as three basic stages: The formation of iron(II) ions from the metal; the formation of hydroxide ions; and their reaction together, with the addition of oxygen, to create rust. Iron is the main component of steel and the corrosion of steel is observed more frequently, since iron is rarely used without alloying in the present day. When steel contacts water, an electrochemical process starts. On the surface of the metal, iron is oxidised to iron(II): Fe → Fe2+ + 2e- The electrons released travel to the edges of the water droplet, where there is plenty of dissolved oxygen. They reduce the oxygen and water to hydroxide ions: 4e- + O2 + 2H2O → 4OH- The hydroxide ions react with the iron(II) ions and more dissolved oxygen to form iron oxide. The hydration is variable, however in its most general form: Fe2+ + 2OH- → Fe(OH)2 4Fe(OH)2 + O2 → 2(Fe2O3.xH2O) + 2H2O Hence, rust is hydrated iron(III) oxide. Corrosion tends to progress faster in seawater than fresh water due to higher concentration of sodium chloride ions, making the solution more conductive. Rusting is also accelerated in the presence of acids, but inhibited by alkalis. Rust can often be removed through electrolysis, however the base metal object can not be restored through this method." In a cooling system this rust is neutralized by the corrosion inhibitors, reducing the system's reserve alkalinity, which in turn shortens it's life. (This is why in real world applications, Dexcool doesn't last 150,000 miles) The degradation of coolant in constantly being accelerated as new things are introduced into the system. The suspended rust particles, increase the conductivity of the coolant, accelerating electrolysis. Not only does electrolysis remove particles from the aluminum componets of the system, but it also removes some of the rust from the componets containing iron. The suspended particles have an additionial negative effect in dexcool systems due to the OAT attacking, and clinging to the suspended particles, causing a thick, rust colored sludge. As the OAT is drawn to the sludgy masses, it offers less protection to the system componets, allowing more rust to form, further accelerating the process. All this is why it is crucial to maintain your system and keep the coolant fresh. |
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11-10-2005, 04:28 PM | #43 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
also I find city driving shortens the life as well.
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11-10-2005, 04:52 PM | #44 | |
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Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
I think what blazee is saying is, dont try to be smart not here, you wont win.
Go Blazee, I couldnt have said it better myself, thankfully theres wikipedia |
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11-10-2005, 05:07 PM | #45 | ||
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Re: Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?
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