No Juice to the coil/distributor

[bringselpup]

Originally Posted by valhalla3

Where is the purple box you are talking about?

Thanks!

Val

It's under the dash to the left of the steering column.

I would think if the crank sensor was bad it would throw an 11 code but I'm fully aware we are talking about a Jeep here.

I was interested to see this article. http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl651h.htm

The problem in this instance appears to be bad wiring in the door harness that was tripping the alarm system. We all know that the wring in these doors is suspect, I've had to replace wiring in my own. That might have relevance here.

[ponchonutty]

Nope. Used a $3k Snap On Tech 2 scanner and it didn't show that as a fault. It did show a fault but I can't remember what it was. Whatever the code was, it was related to the crank senser or it was in with that circuit.

[valhalla3]

I checked all the fusable links in the relay/fuse box under the hood. All the fuses are ok. I also checked voltages and everything was ok except the Alt. Pwr 1 (60 amp) fuse socket showed no power. The Eng. Cntrl (30 amp) socket showed a very slight voltage which I thought was weird. There is still no voltage at the coil connector. I swapped out the auto shutdown relay too and that made no difference. When I put some of the fuses back in the security system had the lights flashing but no horn honking. The security light still comes on after a while when leaving the key on start. It stays on the whole time. Even after "disarming" the system.

I did not see a purple box under the dash to the left of the steering column. Do you have to take the dash a part to see it?

Would the crankshaft position sensor being bad cause all of this? Should I tow the freakin piece of crap to a cliff and then collect the insurance? ()

[bringselpup]

I think maybe purple is misleading, I thought mine was closer to a brick red and I suppose there wasn't much need to care what color the thing was since it's hidden under the dash. You should be able to track it down from the beeps it makes. Disconnect a light bulb somewhere. The VIC will start harrassing you with it's lamp out message and beep everytime it flashes the message. Locate the source of the beep. That's the box you're looking for.

[valhalla3]

I have never heard any beeping like you are talking about. By VIC do yo mean the LED display down in front of the shift that tells you your doors are open etc.? Mine is flashing right now from all the bat disconnects and stuff we've been doing. I do not hear any beeping though. That's just another thing that's probably wrong with this Chrysler piece of ...#$##@! Or does it only beep when you lose a bulb and that kind of thing?

[bringselpup]

Yup that display is the VIC. Vehicle Information Center. I know for sure it beeps for lamp failure but I think it will beep if you leave the headlights on and turn off the ignition. I'm not sure about door ajar. I de-beeped mine awhile back and don't remember all the things it beeped for but it drove me nuts with the lamp failure so I neutered it.

Carribeanzj said in another post that removing this box keeps your anti theft from arming so doing this will be an easy way to see if your problem is the factory security system.

I'm headed out tomorrow to do a little winter camping through the weekend and the batteries for the digital are on the charger. If I get a chance while I'm packing tomorrow morning I'll snap a pic under the dash.

[valhalla3]

Thanks bringselpup I appreciate that!

Val vbmenu_register("postmenu_3952964", true);

[valhalla3]

I actually was able to talk to a Chrysler mechanic at a dealership. He seemed to think the security system is locked up and that I need a keyless entry remote in order to reset the system. I know the system has been whacked out throughout this problem and the tailgate no longer seems to work in turning it off.

He told me to jumper the pin sockets for the auto shutdown relay and see if I have a voltage to the coil. I did that and I do get a voltage, but it still will not start...

Someone was trying to help me with this problem at first and changed the spark plugs and distributor cap. I can only assume that the spark plug wires are going to the correct number in the distributor cap. Does anyone know the cylinder numbers/order and which wires go to which place in the cap? Is the number one cylinder the one towards the front of the car or the one closest to the firewall? I'm assuming the distributor cap has numbers inbossed in the plasitc on top...is that right?

Thanks!

Val

[YtseJam454]

What year is your jeep and which engine do you have? So are you saying the engine cranks but will not run?

[YtseJam454]

Also whoever said the Check Engine light is powered up by the Crank Position Sensor is wrong. The PCM energizes the Check engine light as soon as the ignition switch is turned to run for the bulb test.

I'll take a guess here that you have a 93 GC? Here's the test to check the MIL lamp...

Check engine indicator as follows:
Turn ignition switch to RUN position.
Jumper cluster connector terminal C5 to ground, lamp should light. If bulb is satisfactory, check for open circuit between C5 and PCM module pin 32. If satisfactory, replace PCM.

[valhalla3]

Thanks YtseJam454... What you said is what the Chrysler mechanic told also. Let me restate the whole problem:

Initially it started cranking more and more before it started. If before cranking I turned the key on and off until I heard the fuel pump relay buzz then it would start right up. This went on for several months. Then one day it started to crank but kind of fought against itself as if the timing was off and the security system came on for a few seconds and then went off on its own. From that point it would not start except for a couple of times it would rev up and die instantly. I tried the key in the tail gate to try to reset the security system. Once when I did that it started to rev up and died instantly again. At this point the check engine light still came on. I suspected the fuel pump was bad. I swapped fuel pump relays but it made no difference.

Someone was going to help me change the fuel pump but we jumpered the relay socket pins and the pump came on. There was also gas pressure at the little capped pressure check point as gas shut out when we pressed it. It still would occasionally start to rev up but die instantly. I don't remember the order we did all of the following but at some point the check engine light no longer came on and it would not rev up and die anymore. These are the things we did around the time this happened: replaced spark plugs, rotor and cap; turned the key on and off until the security system came on and tried to verify keying the tail gate would shut it off because this is when the tail gate stopped resetting the system; took the panel off the inside of tail gate to check the wires around the lock and to try to free up the lock mechanism as it had been very hard to turn the key since I got the car.

At this time when we turned the ignition on an off a number of times the security system would come on with the horn and lights. Also when you leave the key in the on position for a couple of minutes the security light comes on and stays on. We also finally realized there was no juice going to the coil.

I checked all the fusable links in the distribution box and they are good. I checked voltages and there was no voltage on the cable going to the coil. When I put the relays back in the security system came on but only the lights were flashing, there was no longer any horn. Using the key in the tailgate or any of the doors would not shut of the security system and it would just time out. The check engine light still never comes on and the security light still comes on when you leave the key on.

The Chrysler mechanic told me the check engine light is only a bulb check like you mentioned. He told me to jumper the pin sockets for the auto shutdown relay and see if I get voltage at the coil and if it would start. I did that and got voltage to the input side of the coil (measuring at the end of the cable that goes to the coil) but it would not start. I had no help so I couldn't turn the engine over and go look for a spark from one of the wires or plugs. He also said to get a keyless entry remote because that is the only thing that will totally reset the security system regardless of any problems with a door switch. Unfortunately I never got one with the car so I'm looking on Ebay for one. They cost way too much at the dealer...what a rip off!!!

I want to check for a spark today and I want to verify that the spark plug wires are connected to the right cylinders and distributor cap positions. I don't know which cylinder is considered number one though. I'm assuming number one is either closest to the fire wall and then sequential numbering to the front of the engine. Or number one is closest to the front of the engine and is sequential going towards the firewall.

OK so I have a 1993 Grand Cherokee limited with a 4 liter straight 6 engine. Yes...it will crank and crank but will not even sputter any more. Any different PCM will have to be programmed for this car correct? The Chrysler mechanic said you can't just go get any PCM. I'm assuming he meant you can't do that without reprogramming.

When you refer to cluster connector terminal C5, are you talking about the distribution box under the hood that has the fusable links and fuel pump, auto shutdown relays etc.??? How would I check for an open circuit between PCM pin 32 and C5??? Are you talking about a continuity check with a meter set on resistance? Or do you mean look for a voltage from C5 to pin 32 on the PCM where the connector would go? Zero volts meaning it's shorted to ground, 12 volts meaning an open circuit?

Thanks!!!!

[bringselpup]

Here's two pics that may help.



Pics are a lot smaller here than they started out. In this picture taken from the pass side fender
left to right and top to bottom it's:

6 -2
3 - 4
5 - 1

And the box I was talking about under the dash.

[Dale Aeppli]

usually if it stats then dies instantly it's the alarm system . Thats the way its supposed to work But the CPS sensor hasn't been changed it could very be the problem. CPS sensors are jeeps biggest problem. Dale

[valhalla3]

Thanks Dale and to every one else that is responding here! I've heard a few people say it might be the crank shaft position sensor. I've also heard they are notorious for going bad but isn't everything with a Chrysler product...

I stopped at the Chrysler dealer today to let them no what happened with what they told me to do. They pretty much told me that I've been backed into a no win corner. They think it is the security system but heres the problem. They said it sounds like one by one each of the doors and now the tailgate switch has failed as each one should reset the system but none do now. The other problem is not having a keyless entry remote but even if I did it has to be programmed for my car and part of the process requires that the electric door lock/unlock work. As fate would have it, the door lock has never worked to lock the doors only to unlock them. So I would not be able to program the remote which means now that I am totally $%$##@#ed. Thanks to the morons at Chrysler with their idiotic brainless design my car has been rendered trashed just because there is no way to reset the security system. How dumb is that to design a security system that won't let the owner drive his car. Come on....who would want to steal a Chrysler product anyway.... Even the Chrysler guy said it would be extremely expensive because they would have to flat bed the piece of junk to their place which would probably be $200 because of the distance and then with all the diagnostics and having to fix the wireharness and troubleshoot the wiring in each door and posibly replacing the PCM and who knows what else.

Yes I'm in an extremely bad, defeated mood..... I hope someone out there has some ideas that might help. At this point I think I will be forced to get another cheap car and then over time try to fix one problem at a time to lead up to being able to reset the security system and then sell the piece of crap

Thanks!

[bringselpup]

2 things come to mind.

1) You said you've never heard the beep and haven't found the box. If it's missing because someone pulled it out your door locks won't lock and maybe that's your whole problem.

2) Get your hands on a PCM for your vehicle but with no theft. Swapping one is easier than changing your oil. But like Chrysler said you need the right one. You can't put a PCM from a 93 in a 97. But they are an over the counter parts item and even cheaper if you shop around. My PCM was $220 ( A Cardone Reman) at Advance Auto Parts after turning in the core. Try Rockauto they are even cheaper. www.rockauto.com