Paddle shifting american cars?

[Tiger Racing]

Originally Posted by whatifwhat

ok people, i hate threads like this, not only is half of the information incorrect, it's also twisted and distorted beyond believe

Indeed. Let's see if we can make some sense of this.

1. Ferrari are not idiots, when they put paddle shifters on their cars they do it for a good reason, They ARE Faster!

You've spoken to the Factory about this? You're quite certain about their reasoning in this matter?

i myself are an amateur driver and i know that if i step into a ferrari with paddle shifts i will be able to change gears like a pro EVERY TIME!!

Um... no, you won't. Professionals can shift standard trannies faster. At least that's what Cort Wagner, Paul Brown, Chris Cook, Cary Eisenlohr, Bill Auberlen and Terry Borchellor, among others, have told me.

plus in a paddle shifter you can keep your hands on the steering wheel saving more time as you don't have to fiddle with a stick whilst trying to break into a tricky corner.

Heh. You got that part right, at least.

2. The paddle shifters in the ferrari 575 or enzo and later cars do change faster than even a pro driver, this has been proved by pro test drivers - fact.

You have proof for this? Which pro drivers are you citing here?

3. I don't know why you're getting upset about paddle shifters appearing on run of the mill (or crap) cars, it doesn't matter, the chances are there crap and are just for show. Ferrari done it first

Actually, Magnetti Marelli done it first for Ferrari, but have since done it for a few others. Do you know anyone who has driven both a Ferrari paddle shift car and an Aston Martin, for example? And what do they say about the two systems? Oh... wait! I've driven both. The Aston is better.

So don't worry about Ford or anybody elses execs trying to make a little more profit by pretending to have F1 technology in their cars. "immatation is the best form of flattery"

Yer funny.

C.

[whatifwhat]

.Ok i don't want to get drawn into some pointless argument which is already destined to end without conclusion!, i have better things to do with my time and no doubt yourself also! However i may have been a little vague with my comments and you have every right to challenge them, so i will try to clarify my arguments to show you the point i am trying to make.

1. No i have not spoken directly to any representative of ferrari about the issues refereed to in this forum, and yes i am quite certain about their reasoning in this matter!, The introduction of a F1 style paddle shift semi automatic gearbox on ferrari road cars is to improve performance, and dynamics of driving such cars. Let me be more specific, i will use a Ferrari 360 Modena as an example:
First a Ferrari 360 Modena is not a racing car!, Now say we set Cort Wagner a challenge of taking the 360 with each gearbox around a track and see which one will set the fastest time, maybe he will be able to set a faster time with a standard H than with a F1 box and maybe he won't, but any time difference would be negligible at best, and lets not forget that Cort Wagner is not your average driver!, but if we were to get a more average driver and set him the same challenge he's going to set a faster time with the F1 box. Why is this? This is my point - automation! "gear shifting demands a lot of concentration and effort for any driver, with a paddle shift you take this task away from the driver letting him concentrate on other things, plus a paddle shift won't let you make any silly mistakes and blow the engine! In my experience with the 360 F1 box you have to slightly lift off under full power to upshift but not to downshift.
Maybe with the standard 360 gearbox Cort Wagner and co can upshift a fraction of a second quicker than the 360 F1 box but they will NOT be able to downshift any faster.
So is the sole reason that Ferrari offers an F1 style gearbox as an option on their road cars to make the car faster? - no, they could easily make the standard 360 a lot faster by changing the suspension or brakes etc, hence the Challenge Stradale.
The 360 as standard is set up for an exhilarating driving experience on both road and track, with excellent steering feedback, balance, etc this car is beautiful to drive and for most people who are not biased or prejudiced in their decision it is the best handling car on the planet, for some people a F1 gearbox only increases this experience while others prefer the manual.

2. I doubt that i can give you 100% proof that the 575 and later models can change faster than even a pro but that is what i believe and have been told, the driver i am referring to is Luca Badoer. Also a few articles from tests done from magazines seemed to confirm that.

3. Ok i suggest you go back to reread the posts, i clearly stated that paddle shifts appearing on crap cars will also tend to be crap, why do you reference an Aston Martins gearbox to a 360s?, are you saying that an Aston Martin is a crap car?.... in which case by your own logic you are negating the fact that a 360 is crap also!, anyone who states that is either very biased or knows little about cars.

[srfyak2001]

i worked for adam cox (ace motorsport) for awhile. also i saw your mustang in mm&f.
i never met you adam just told me about your racing and i thought it was cool.

oh yeah my name is k.c. dougherty

[Tiger Racing]

Originally Posted by srfyak2001

i worked for adam cox (ace motorsport) for awhile. also i saw your mustang in mm&f.
i never met you adam just told me about your racing and i thought it was cool.

oh yeah my name is k.c. dougherty

Hi, K.C.!

Adam worked with my dad for a few yrs on his vintage cars and was my first crew chief in Ferrari Challenge. If you're still in touch with him, send him my best. I haven't seen him in ages and hope his shop is doing well.

Did you see the article in the December issue of 5.0 Mustang? My car was featured on the cover and they did 11 pages on it. Very in depth, very technical article. I think you can still view it on their website.

C.

[srfyak2001]

adam is working somewhere else right now. i moved from sonoma county to florida so i don't hear from him much any more. adam is definatly a very cool guy i am stoked i was able to work for him.

i have the magazine. the car is cool looking. is it a mustang tranny thats been swithed to sequeintial? how are the gears being shifted?

[srfyak2001]

imust have missed the tranny part in the mag. oops
how does this system shift an h pattern shifter?

which car d p you prefer to drive the stang or your challenge car.

i have rode in acouple challenge cars i havnt been able to get in a better car

[Tiger Racing]

Originally Posted by whatifwhat

.Ok i don't want to get drawn into some pointless argument which is already destined to end without conclusion!

It's only pointless if nobody learns anything.

i may have been a little vague with my comments and you have every right to challenge them, so i will try to clarify my arguments to show you the point i am trying to make.

Actually, I don't think you've been vague at all. I think you're just wrong about some of it.

1. No i have not spoken directly to any representative of ferrari about the issues refereed to in this forum, and yes i am quite certain about their reasoning in this matter!

You admit that you've not spoken to the Factory, but somehow still feel free to speak directly for them. Based on what? Do you work in the industry? Have you ever been connected with Ferrari? Are you more psychic than I am? I would think it would be more prudent to stick to expressing your opinion and to relating specific facts that you can actually back up. It lends more credence to your arguments.

The introduction of a F1 style paddle shift semi automatic gearbox on ferrari road cars is to improve performance, and dynamics of driving such cars.

I'd agree with that.

say we set Cort Wagner a challenge of taking the 360 with each gearbox around a track and see which one will set the fastest time, maybe he will be able to set a faster time with a standard H than with a F1 box and maybe he won't, but any time difference would be negligible at best

Racing is measured in tenths of seconds. Nothing is negligible.

if we were to get a more average driver and set him the same challenge he's going to set a faster time with the F1 box.

I expect that's true. The only thing I disagreed with you about was your adamant assertion that the paddle shift systems available on street cars shift faster than a pro does with a dogbox. They don't, according to the professionals that I have spoken to.

In my experience with the 360 F1 box you have to slightly lift off under full power to upshift but not to downshift.

You've actually driven a 360 with a paddle shift? And you lifted on the upshifts? Interesting. The 360 you drove must have had a crappier system in it than my 355 F1 Challenge car does, because there is no way that lifting on the upshifts is faster. OTOH, you do need to blip the throttle slightly on the downshifts in the 355 for fastest shift times. I've been told that you don't have to do that in a 360 and you sure as Hel don't have to do it in the most recent versions, like what is in the Vanquish.

Maybe with the standard 360 gearbox Cort Wagner and co can upshift a fraction of a second quicker than the 360 F1 box but they will NOT be able to downshift any faster.

When did Cort tell you this?

So is the sole reason that Ferrari offers an F1 style gearbox as an option on their road cars to make the car faster?

Doubtful. The paddle shift technology is also much easier on the mechanicals of the car. The system has redundant safeties built in and the force used by the actuators to move from gear to gear are far less than are exerted by a human.

The 360 as standard is set up for an exhilarating driving experience on both road and track, with excellent steering feedback, balance, etc this car is beautiful to drive and for most people who are not biased or prejudiced in their decision it is the best handling car on the planet

You do have a tendency to make rather broad statements of fact without providing any supporting evidence. As I am a lifelong Tifosa, I would never argue that the 360 is an exceptional car, but I'm not about to go making claims that I know what the best handling car on the planet is. I'll leave that to the experts who have actually driven a few hundred cars and make their living comparing them. Are you one of those people?

2. I doubt that i can give you 100% proof that the 575 and later models can change faster than even a pro but that is what i believe and have been told, the driver i am referring to is Luca Badoer. Also a few articles from tests done from magazines seemed to confirm that.

When did you speak to Luca? And which articles are you referring to? You could at least provide a link or two.

3. Ok i suggest you go back to reread the posts, i clearly stated that paddle shifts appearing on crap cars will also tend to be crap, why do you reference an Aston Martins gearbox to a 360s?, are you saying that an Aston Martin is a crap car?

Try to keep up. If you would reread a post or two, then you would understand that Aston Martin is owned by Ford and so any shifter system that you find on a Ford product in future is going to be derived from the one that is on the Vanquish. At least, until further notice.

You tried to dismiss any shifter system that appeared on a Ford as an attempt by them to pretend to have F1 technology. You are flat out wrong. Again, what Ford has right now is equal to or better than anything that Ferrari has put into their street cars and I've got the Mustang to prove it.

C.

[whatifwhat]

1. No I don’t speak for Ferrari as you well know, I simply felt the need to respond to your original posts as you seemed to imply that Ferraris F1 gearboxes were inferior to just about every other implementation of a F1 gearbox as well as Ferraris own manual shift. This is far from the truth and is the reason for my original post. Now I certainly do not need to be connected to Ferrari or even psychic to realise why a manufacturer like Ferrari adopts new technology in their road cars, in fact the reason is, one would think, obvious!

”Racing is measured in tenths of seconds. Nothing is negligible.”

This quote may be accurate when talking about racing which is precisely the point I was making, a 360 is NOT a racing car and a tenth or two IS negligible in the real world, especially when you are talking about the difference between a pro driver and a complete amateur.



“I expect that's true. The only thing I disagreed with you about was your adamant assertion that the paddle shift systems available on street cars shift faster than a pro does with a dogbox. They don't, according to the professionals that I have spoken to.”

Ok I will concede that on Ferraris first generation paddle shifts that a pro driver can shift a fraction faster than the F1 box, and even on the second gen boxes too, but this is a mere fraction of a second, also this is only referring to the physical gear change and not the entire process. Although I still agree that even taking everything in to account that a professional racing driver can still change faster. However there are still occasions that a pro would be inferior to even the first gen box. Now lets stop talking about professional racing drivers, I would still argue that a 355 F1 box is faster than the standard shift – by physically shifting faster than most people are capable of and by eliminating the human variables. If you look at the acceleration capability of a Ferrari with a F1 box and the same Ferrari without a F1 box the times are the same. This is because any difference is negligible to most people, you on the other hand seemed to imply that, the difference was significant, I disagree.
Plus, the latest generation of Ferrari F1 gearboxes change at a MINIMUM speed of 150 milliseconds, like on the Enzo, Stradale and so on, this is faster than even the professionals, it’s also faster than the vanquish, there are numerous resources on the net that will confirm this.

“You've actually driven a 360 with a paddle shift? And you lifted on the upshifts? Interesting. The 360 you drove must have had a crappier system in it than my 355 F1 Challenge car does, because there is no way that lifting on the upshifts is faster”

I agree totally, because I never stated that lifting on the upshifts was faster, in fact it’s slower, I was just stating that the downshifts on the 360 are much smoother than the upshifts under full power, it’s not a flat shift, it can be a little jerky and can be made smoother if you lift off slightly. Obviously this isn’t something your going to want to do in a race but if your out on the track just to have fun you may want to try it.

When did I speak to Cort? I didn’t, Cort is only human and I am saying that I don’t believe that even a pro has an advantage over a 360 when downshifting.

As for my statement about the 360 being the best handling car on the planet, this is my opinion but it is based on the opinion, research and testing of experts who do this for a living.

Also for your final point you say, that what Ford has right now is equal to or better than anything Ferrari has. Show me a gearbox that is in a current Ford model that is equal to or better, than say the gearbox in the 360 Stradale.
Ok when I said about ford not having a quality f1 gearbox I was wrong but I wasn’t focusing on ford, rather on those manufacturers that are now putting these gearboxes on everyday cars.

[Tiger Racing]

Originally Posted by srfyak2001

imust have missed the tranny part in the mag. oops
how does this system shift an h pattern shifter?

Electrohydrauliclly controlled actuators move from gear to gear. If you want more specifics, I would either direct you to the 5.0 Mustang article or I can ask my crew chief to post. My understanding is sufficient to pilot the vehicle, but I'm just the driver.

which car d p you prefer to drive the stang or your challenge car.

I am still honoured to have been able to race a Ferrari and even though I got my butt kicked on a regular basis, I really loved driving that car. However, there is no comparison to my Mustang. This is a real race car. This car has twice as much torque as the Ferrari had horsepower. It's faster, it handles better, it's more reliable and it sure as Hel doesn't cost as much to run. We also don't have to deal with the Ferrari Factory's BS. On the contrary, we are being technically supported by Ford.

I sometimes miss the sound of that Ferrari V8, but overall, I am really enjoying the power of American Iron.

C.

[Tiger Racing]

Originally Posted by whatifwhat

1. No I don’t speak for Ferrari as you well know

Then don't.

I simply felt the need to respond to your original posts as you seemed to imply that Ferraris F1 gearboxes were inferior to just about every other implementation of a F1 gearbox as well as Ferraris own manual shift. This is far from the truth

I didn't say that Ferrari is inferior to everything, I said it's not the best and that as new manfacturers come out with systems on their cars, they will be as good or better than Ferrari's older systems. The OP claimed that Ford's system was junk. It's not. It's better than the the 355 and the 360.

This quote may be accurate when talking about racing which is precisely the point I was making, a 360 is NOT a racing car and a tenth or two IS negligible in the real world, especially when you are talking about the difference between a pro driver and a complete amateur.

The conversation has flowed back and forth between street drivers and pros. If you're going to talk about track times or respond to my comments, then I am going to reply to your comments as well. And if a tenth or two IS neglible in the real world then why put these systems on street cars at all?

Ok I will concede that on Ferraris first generation paddle shifts that a pro driver can shift a fraction faster than the F1 box, and even on the second gen boxes too

Damn skippy.

but this is a mere fraction of a second, also this is only referring to the physical gear change and not the entire process.

Um, no. I have always been talking about the entire process of shifting from gear to gear. And, of COURSE, we are talking about fractions of seconds. Seconds are how long it takes to shift. What else would we talk about?

Although I still agree that even taking everything in to account that a professional racing driver can still change faster. However there are still occasions that a pro would be inferior to even the first gen box.

How many ways can I tell you that you're wrong according to the pros themselves? The guys who have actually driven the different cars and who get paid to know what they are doing say that you're wrong.

Plus, the latest generation of Ferrari F1 gearboxes change at a MINIMUM speed of 150 milliseconds, like on the Enzo, Stradale and so on, this is faster than even the professionals, it’s also faster than the vanquish, there are numerous resources on the net that will confirm this.

Provide links to these sources and make sure that they are measuring the same thing. I've already addressed this. Some manufacturers give times that only represent the movement of one gear to another. Other manufacturers talk about the full process of blipping the throttle, opening and closing the clutch and changing gears.

When did I speak to Cort? I didn’t

Well, I have. He's driven my Challenge car. I suggest that you don't make any claims regarding him without speaking to him directly or at least being able to quote him from a reputable source.

Cort is only human and I am saying that I don’t believe that even a pro has an advantage over a 360 when downshifting.

You're wrong.

As for my statement about the 360 being the best handling car on the planet, this is my opinion

Okie doke. It's rather irrelevant to this conversation though.

Also for your final point you say, that what Ford has right now is equal to or better than anything Ferrari has. Show me a gearbox that is in a current Ford model that is equal to or better, than say the gearbox in the 360 Stradale.

I don't think you're paying attention. I've said more than once that the paddle shifter in my Mustang is outstanding and is better than what Ferrari has been putting in their street cars.

Ok when I said about ford not having a quality f1 gearbox I was wrong

Kind of you to admit it.

but I wasn’t focusing on ford, rather on those manufacturers that are now putting these gearboxes on everyday cars.

Like who? You didn't name anyone but Ford. This whole thread was started to slam Ford and basically anyone who isn't Ferrari. You joined in to agree with that. I'm glad you now realize that you're wrong.

And that's really all this conversation comes down to. Somebody claimed that they heard Ford would be putting a paddle shifter into the new Mustang, which is utterly untrue and then a bunch of people claimed that if they did, it would be a crappy system that would be an embarassement compared to what Ferrari has. Also untrue.

Nothing against Ferrari at all. I am a die hard Tifosa, but I am also eternally grateful to Ford for helping me put a paddle shifter into my Mustang race car. A paddle shifter that kicks butt.

C.

[whatifwhat]

“No I don’t speak for Ferrari as you well know”

“Then don’t”

I didn’t !!!


“The conversation has flowed back and forth between street drivers and pros. If you're going to talk about track times or respond to my comments, then I am going to reply to your comments as well. And if a tenth or two IS neglible in the real world then why put these systems on street cars at all?”

You’re the one that’s comparing Ferrari road cars to racing cars, then you compare Ferraris obsolete gearboxes to Aston Martins latest offering, if you’re going to make a comparison then at least make a fair one!

You say that a pro driver is superior In everyway to the gearbox in say, a 360 F1, you’re wrong, maybe he can edge out an advantage in some areas, he may also post slightly faster lap times, this much is true but there is no doubt that certain situations will inevitably occur during the coarse of a race in which the 360 F1 box will have an advantage.

The point I am trying to emphasize in previous posts is this: -
We could put Forest Gump in a 360 F1 and any time he would lose by changing gears compared to even a pro driver would not be worth talking about. In fact any time lost in gear changes would be more than made up for in his general driving by not having to concentrate as much on changing gears. I do agree with you on the racing standpoint but try to see the point I am making.

The reason I didn’t post any links is because that would be biased, it’s much easier to search yourself and come to your own conclusion.


“I don't think you're paying attention. I've said more than once that the paddle shifter in my Mustang is outstanding and is better than what Ferrari has been putting in their street cars.”

Once again I will asked you to tell me which models from Ford are equal or better than what Ferrari has, is this mustang of yours just an ordinary mustang with a paddle shift that anyone can buy from a Ford dealer (like a 360 F1), or is a specially prepared mustang for racing with an aftermarket transmission? Just post me a link to show me Ford road cars with these superior gearboxes!

“Like who? You didn't name anyone but Ford. This whole thread was started to slam Ford and basically anyone who isn't Ferrari. You joined in to agree with that. I'm glad you now realize that you're wrong.”

I did name Citroen, and no that is not why I joined this thread, I only joined because of YOUR original posts, while this thread may have been started with unrealistic posts, it was just people having a little fun. You changed that with your serious claims and that is why I responded, you may have been coming from the right direction but your words were just a little strong.
Ferrari have always been at the cutting edge of technology, like putting a paddle shift on a road car, but I am not saying that no one else can do this too! Any manufacturer as big Ford is going to have the resources to develop just about anything, but this doesn’t mean they will, when I slammed Citroen for putting an inferior paddle shift on a saxo, I’m also aware that they make paddle shifts for their WRC cars which are state of the art.

[Tiger Racing]

Originally Posted by whatifwhat

You’re the one that’s comparing Ferrari road cars to racing cars

Untrue. I've merely spoken of cars in a race setting. I've not been talking about racing gearboxes compared to street boxes. Well, except to try to clear up this misconception that so many people have that F1 paddle shifters allow amateurs to shift faster than professional drivers. That's not true. A pro with a dogbox can shift faster than a paddle shifter designed for street use.

then you compare Ferraris obsolete gearboxes to Aston Martins latest offering, if you’re going to make a comparison then at least make a fair one!

I try to be careful to only speak of that which I know. Up until 2003, I am quite sure that Aston Martin (Ford's) paddle shifter was better than anything Ferrari was putting on the street. I'm not positive about how things are now. What is in the 612 and Enzo may be the same generation technology as what is in the Vanquish or a later gen.

The point behind this thread was to clarify that what Ford would put on the street would NOT be vastly inferior to what Ferrari has.

You say that a pro driver is superior In everyway to the gearbox in say, a 360 F1, you’re wrong

You have nothing to base that on, but your amateur opinion. OTOH, the professionals that I've spoken to say that their experience is quite different.

The point I am trying to emphasize in previous posts is this: -
We could put Forest Gump in a 360 F1 and any time he would lose by changing gears compared to even a pro driver would not be worth talking about. In fact any time lost in gear changes would be more than made up for in his general driving by not having to concentrate as much on changing gears. I do agree with you on the racing standpoint but try to see the point I am making.

I don't see the point you're making here at all. You're now claiming that any idiot using a paddle shifter could beat a professional using a standard shifter because they don't have to concentrate as much on changing gears? That's the silliest thing I've heard on this thread yet.

The reason I didn’t post any links is because that would be biased, it’s much easier to search yourself and come to your own conclusion.

You must be new to this online thing as that is not how things work. If you are going to make statements of fact, then you are going to be asked to back them up with some evidence. If you are then going to claim that there are articles and professional opinions out there that support you, then you need to produce them. Else you cannot expect your opinion to be highly valued at all.

Once again I will asked you to tell me which models from Ford are equal or better than what Ferrari has

The Vanquish.

is this mustang of yours just an ordinary mustang with a paddle shift that anyone can buy from a Ford dealer (like a 360 F1), or is a specially prepared mustang for racing with an aftermarket transmission?

This is a race prepared Mustang that has been fitted with a completely stock T-56 transmission and shifter system out of the Aston Martin Vanquish, a readily available street car. The shifter has been calibrated to work with the Ford V8, but the tranny itself is stock.

I only joined because of YOUR original posts, while this thread may have been started with unrealistic posts, it was just people having a little fun. You changed that with your serious claims and that is why I responded, you may have been coming from the right direction but your words were just a little strong.

Interestingly enough, the guy who started this thread is nowhere to be seen. Regardless, what started this was:

1) Misinformation. Ford is NOT putting a paddle shifter onto the '05 Mustang.

2) Ignorance. If and when Ford does put a paddle shifter onto one of their street cars, it will be as good or better than whatever Ferrari has on theirs.

Ferrari have always been at the cutting edge of technology, like putting a paddle shift on a road car, but I am not saying that no one else can do this too! Any manufacturer as big Ford is going to have the resources to develop just about anything, but this doesn’t mean they will

This is seriously getting redundant. AGAIN... Ferrari's paddle shifter was designed by Magnetti Marelli. So was Aston Martin's. Ford owns Aston Martin. As of right now, any paddle shifter that appears on a Ford product, like my Mustang, will be a derivative of the Italian system.

C.

[whatifwhat]

Ok I think were almost done here, but there still seems to be a few crossed wires yet.


“You have nothing to base that on, but your amateur opinion. OTOH, the professionals that I've spoken to say that their experience is quite different.”

All I’m saying about this point is that pros do make mistakes, and what about say, a four car battle, constantly out breaking each other, with a little bit of over steer thrown in for good measure, there are moments when you need to keep both hands on the wheel, it’s during these moments that a F1 box is the better option.


“I don't see the point you're making here at all. You're now claiming that any idiot using a paddle shifter could beat a professional using a standard shifter because they don't have to concentrate as much on changing gears? That's the silliest thing I've heard on this thread yet.”

NO,NO,NO absolutely not, this is not what I’m saying at all, that’s your biggest insult so far. The idiots lap time would be awful, he may not even make it around for one lap: -
His breaking would be too early, too late and generally poor,
His cornering wouldn’t be on the right lines and generally poor.
He would have poor judgement on pretty much everything and wouldn’t be able to react to his mistakes,
He wouldn’t be able to feel the car nor push it near its limits,
However when he changed gears he would do so quickly, efficiently and without any hassle (weather he would select them at the right moment isn’t relevant to this point) and in this area he would be virtually as quick as a pro.
This is what I’m saying, for the majority of people, having a F1 box adds to their ability, not subtract from it!



“You must be new to this online thing as that is not how things work. If you are going to make statements of fact, then you are going to be asked to back them up with some evidence. If you are then going to claim that there are articles and professional opinions out there that support you, then you need to produce them. Else you cannot expect your opinion to be highly valued at all.”

I’ve already stated I’m not about to post links, you’re the one who initiated this discussion by stating that the vanquish was superior to anything Ferrari had, this would include such models as the 575, Challenge Stradale and the Enzo, why don’t you back up your claim with some valid proof?

“The vanquish”

This must mean that Ford hasn’t introduced a paddle shift onto a single road car yet! Because contrary to what you may believe, the vanquish is not a Ford, it may share a switch or two but people don’t buy a Ford vanquish, nor an Audi gallardo nor do people think that the latest model from Fiat is the Enzo. So until a paddle shift appears on a road car wearing the blue oval no one can say for sure how good it’ll be. Although If one were to appear on a mustang or a Ford GT, I would expect it to be a quality one, (I’m reasonable certain that it wouldn’t fall off the steering wheel!)

“This is seriously getting redundant. AGAIN... Ferrari's paddle shifter was designed by Magnetti Marelli. So was Aston Martin's. Ford owns Aston Martin. As of right now, any paddle shifter that appears on a Ford product, like my Mustang, will be a derivative of the Italian system.”

Fair enough, but you say this like Ferrari buys these gearboxes off the shelf, not true, Ferrari have had a long and close relationship with Magneti Marelli, and this is more of a joint venture which MM certainly didn’t do alone.

[jeffs_GTP_sleeper]

I have the paddle shifts.

[MITSU-EVO]

Originally Posted by SuPeRcAr_MaN

I agree 100%. Ford would be the last company I would want bringing this great feature to American cars. They will mess it up in someway, but get an A for effort... LOL. :silly2:

Well, not necessarily though. If you look at the Aston Martin DB9 it has one of the smoothest F1 gearboxes around. And as we all know Aston Martin, even though it 's not engineered by Ford, is owned by Ford. Therefore they can very well take the gearbox from an Aston.