Stuck - removing RH driveaxle from bearing mount

[azw]

Thanks for the links, Csaxon. It's too bad that those web pages didn't discuss the potential problems.
My Haynes manual didn't either. Maybe that's because they tore apart new cars and didn't have difficulty removing the axle.

I looked at the Haynes while deciding whether to do it myself. Looked fairly easy. Ha. Would I have started in on this if I had known what would happen? Nope.

I like the part in Haynes where they show you where to put your hand so you can slide the axle out after you remove the snap clip. And then there's Allen and I wacking away at anything we can get a tool on. Forget about gentle hand placement! Kind of humorous in a dark way.

[Allen McCready]

(These messages of mine probably won't set a record for effectiveness, but they may well set a dubious one for length on this forum.)

Hey buddy,

That 1/16" to 1/8" start is an excellent sign. That will allow the penetrating oil more opportunity to get in and help. If you are using WD-40 or an equivalent generic, I would strongly suggest switching to something like Super Blaster PB Penetrating Oil, which I got at Pepboys for $5, instead. I have had heard from several sources that WD-40 is a good all-around oil, but not super at penetrating.

Although it took many days. I was not pounding the whole time. Probably I spent 4/5ths of the time getting the bearing to move the first little bit. Then acceleration set in. I would get to the car in mid-late afternoon, then work until 10-11PM, with time out to eat, etc.

I did forget to tell you that after pounding for a half hour the first day on that ball joint separator, I noticed a loud ringing in my ears, which still hasn't gone completely away. So, I started using my ear plugs that look like expensive headphones that completely surround the ear and have a band over the top of the head. Regular earplugs are good too. My hearing is already partially gone in one ear, so I am super concerned about losing anymore. That ball joint separator doesn't thunk, it keeps ringing like a tuning fork.

Here's another tip that I was getting ready to use, but did not, because the bearing finally came out of the mount. This tip seems counter-intuitive, but I have used it on rusted bolts and nuts and heard about it from a mechanic on the radio or I read it somewhere. The trick is to work the stuck item back and forth. In this case, that would mean tapping the hub end of the driveaxle with your plastic hammer to drive the driveaxle back into the bearing mount. Then use your wedge to drive it back out again, applying penetrating oil on both sides each time. Psychologically, it is hard to do this. Remember that the bearing race may only move a certain distance, then no more, because it may be held in the mount by the wedge you are using to remove it. At that point you HAVE to switch techniques. I probably did some USELESS pounding, before I noticed that. One thing for sure, if you get AGGRAVATED, walk away for a while or you lose your creative thinking. If you can think of this as a challenging game to have fun with you are much better off. I had trouble doing that and may have added to my swear-word vocabulary.
My understanding is that the remanufacturer of the driveaxle at least replaces the bearing if it is damaged in any way. I would hope they replace it in any case. If you are planning on putting the same driveaxle back in then treating the bearing with kid gloves is essential, but I wouldn't trust the bearing in this case and I believe you are replacing the whole driveaxle. I sent an email to my remanufacturer, Car Component Technologies (CCT) at tech@CCTaxle.com <tech@CCTaxle.com>, but they never responded. I just sent another email asking them to recall those driveaxles of theirs that are missing dust shields and alert previous buyers of the problem.

I considered dropping the exhaust at one point (which may be no easy task, especially due to corrosion) to better get at the bearing mount, but about that time, the bearing finally moved.

Finally, the replies I got from these forums kept me going as well. As you said, knowing it can be done under similar conditions, helps.

If you are still at it early Saturday morning (9A?), consider calling "Wanna ask Click and Clack a question on the air?
Call 1-888-CAR-TALK (888-227-8255)". These two guys are really funny, easy to talk to, and may actually have some good ideas. One or both went to MIT and appear to be great diagnostic mechanics. They have been on NPR for years. It is probably a good idea to call well ahead of the show in case they pre-screen callers. If you do, tell them Allen McCready referred you, though they don't know me from Adam.

[azw]

Oops. Just in case someone else reads this thread for similar help, I need to correct an error. While I was resting from hammering away, I noticed that my axle has no "weight". I'm wedging the chisel between the bearing support and the housing of the inward CV joint.

Also, Allen's idea of hammering out (with the wedge) then back in (on the outer drive shaft end) seems to be a very good idea. Now that first 1/8" is very loose. I can wiggle it by hand in and out. So I'll be trying more of that.

On the dust shields, the axle remanufacturer told me that if they run out of parts they just don't use them. So much for quality. He did say he recommends pulling the old one off the core and using that.

[azw]

Here's an update. This job just gets better by the day.

Today I talked to Andy, a certified Toyota mechanic, who said this is often a very difficult job. They usually have two people working together to get the bearing loose...of course they use a lift, so they have a lot more room to manuever. One person pulls with a pry bar while the other jiggles the support with an air hammer. The air hammer is used with a round point simply to vibrate the bearing support. He also highly recommended PB Blaster penetrating oil spray.

Sounds good. But Lady Luck was laughing at me today. I got my dad to come over. We air hammered and pried for about 10-15 minutes, and then the pneumatic tool broke. Alright, next time I'll buy a better one. (This one was on sale for under $10 at Harbor Freight. I'd guess I got twenty minutes out of it total.)

So we went back to pounding in wedges and using the penetrating oil. We had less success with the horizontal pounding technique Allen used. (That may be because we weren't actually moving the race, as I'll explain in a second.) A large cold chisel, then that combined with an old wood chisel, and finally a wood-splitting wedge, which finished it off.

An early sign that things were deteriorating inside the bearing were that the bearing got sloppier with time. Then I saw bearings in odd positions. The big clue finally came when ball bearings starting falling on us.

Eventually the axle came loose, but the race (the outer ring of the bearing) was still in the support and hadn't moved at all!

So, we removed the engine mount. That's easier when the axle is out. First we tried taking the mount and that rubber thing together, but there's no room to maneuver it and there are all kinds of fragile-looking electrical and fuel(?) connections near it that had us worried.

So we reattached the rubber thing and took out just the mount. The top nut (goes into that rubber shock absorber between the frame and the engine mount) is a real bear. I had to pry on an open end wrench with a nail puller. to get that nut loose. I may try a clawfoot socket to reattacth the nut. I think that might allow me access from the top. I'm betting that's the nut that Allen couldn't get. We almost gave up, too.

I thought having the support out of the car would make using a punch to move the race out of the support easy. Nope. It's not budging. So tomorrow I'll have to search for someone who can do that. I'm considering getting a new mount, but I'd bet they're pretty expensive.

By the way, there is very little of the race showing. Using a punch to pound it out would be very difficult even with the support removed from the car. There just isn't enough to give you any bite. I'm pretty sure that doing that while the axle was in place would be impossible.

I'm leery of being overly optimistic, but it does seem like I'm nearly done. I'll believe it when I see it. At least it's been a great exercise program and I've had an excuse to talk with the neighbors.

[Allen McCready]

AZW,

Glad to hear you got the passenger side driveaxle out. Sorry about the race being stuck in the bearing mount. A machine shop may be able to get that bearing race out. I took a quick online browse for a replacement bearing mount, but all I could find was the rubber mount, without the bearing mount bracket that you need. That bracket may only be available through a junk yard or dealer and be a lot cheaper at the junk yard.

Actually, I got to the nut on the top of the rubber engine mount, but I never removed the rest of the bolts on the mount bracket. I could reach down from the top of the engine and feel the nut with my fingers and guide a socket in place. If you have a large hand, that may not work for you. I used a combination of 3/8" and 1/2" short and long socket drive extensions and a 3/8" universal joint with my 1/2" rachet wrench. It was the upper right bolt on the lower part of the bracket that I couldn't get out. I tried various ways, including through the wheel well. The driveaxle was in the way, of course.

I thought I had a difficult time, but was apparently lucky my bearing didn't fall apart. Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions, other than finding a machine shop or talking again to a dealer mechanic. The race probably has gotten stuck for dealers too.

You have been amazingly persistent, resourceful, and resilient. Hope you have better luck on Saturday, or whenever you get back to it.

[azw]

Alright! I'm done. The machine shop was very helpful. They said the race was really stuck in there and they had trouble getting it out. They also cleaned up the corrosion inside the support and said it was much thicker than they had imagined.

One advantage of having the mount out of car is that you can test the new axle to make sure the bearing fits. I ground down the support just a tad to make it fit more easily. It still took a couple of wacks on the axle to get it to pop into place, but it was a lot easier than the driver's side.

The machine shop guy suggested I coat the bearing and support with anti-freeze compound.

The snap ring was fairly malformed by the time I got it loose, but with careful hammering I got it back to being flat and round.

Allen's tip of putting the snap ring on the axle before you install the axle, and tying the snap ring closed so it can be placed in the groove very easily worked very well.

The hardest part of reassembly was getting the hub back on the control arm. We pried down on the stablizer bar to lower the control arm. That helped a lot.

Thank you so much for all your advice and support! It rolls!

[azw]

I'd like to check the differential fluid level, but I'm not seeing the differential fill plug on this 1995 Camry 4 cyl, automatic. Where is it? The photos in the Haines manual don't match my car at all.

[Allen McCready]

Originally Posted by azw

I'd like to check the differential fluid level, but I'm not seeing the differential fill plug on this 1995 Camry 4 cyl, automatic. Where is it? The photos in the Haines manual don't match my car at all.

On my 1997 the filler plug is on the backside of the differential housing, about halfway up the housing, almost directly above the drain plug. the filler plug requires a socket wrench for removal. It was very hard for me to get to and remove. I used a 1/2" ratchet for leverage and had to exert a lot of force. I believe that I had to position the ratchet horizontally without any extension or universal joint, with the handle pointing towards the passenger wheel. I think I had trouble using socket wrench drive extensions and a universal joint getting to that plug.

Unfortunately, my camry was on jack stands in the front, but not the back, so the car was not very level. That created problems re-filling the differential to the proper level, which is up to the bottom of the filler plug. A little car angle appears to make a lot of difference in how much fluid stays in the differential. I had to buy a metal suction pump from Advance Auto Parts for $10 to re-fill. The plastic tubing on the end of the pump fills the hole, so that it is hard to tell when the differential fluid level is up to the bottom of the filler hole. At one point, when I pulled the tube out, the fluid shot out under pressure and all over me, because I was directly below the hole, under the car. I must have opened my mouth at the time, because I got a taste. That was the first time I actually washed out my mouth with soap and that transmission fluid is very hard to get out of clothes. I am still working on removing the stains.

Congratulations on getting the bearing mount fixed and the driveaxle back in. That must have been a yahoo time.

Glad to have helped.

[azw]

Thanks again, Allen, I'll take another look. I can remember trying to siphon oil out of my first car's transmission. The taste stayed with me...and I try to avoid eating it again.

Yeah, we were beaming when the car worked. My dad was so pleased he told all his friends. We were both amazed to have succeeded. It sure looked bleak for days. The support of friends like you was important to getting through it. Otherwise, at several points we would have been at a loss about what to do and what to expect.

[Brian R.]

Good job guys

[WickedNYCowboy]

Congrats. This looks like one job it will be brought to the mechanic's for. Hopefully by the time it is needed it will be old enough to just junk. Doesn't Toyota make replacements and how much will they run?

[azw]

Thanks, Brian.

WickedNYCowboy, I wonder if it's possible to check first to see if the bearing is stuck in the support. What if you removed the bolt on the bottom side of the support and then tried to move the axle in the support--while everything else is connected. I should have tried that while I was under there. You might have to remove the ball joint from the control arm to get any movement.

Anyway, unless it's loose or you have a lift and a lot of patience, this is definitely a job to let someone else do.

[azw]

Thanks to Allen's help, today I found the fill plug. A closed end wrench and a deadblow hammer removed it easily enough. The Haynes manual had the wrong location!

[Allen McCready]

Originally Posted by WickedNYCowboy

Congrats. This looks like one job it will be brought to the mechanic's for. Hopefully by the time it is needed it will be old enough to just junk. Doesn't Toyota make replacements and how much will they run?

WickedNYCowboy,

I checked with two Toyota dealers in my area 10 miles south of downtown Pittsburgh and they both said they sold no remanufactured driveaxles. The cost of their new driveaxles was close to $500 each.

Allen

[GSS123]

Good job guys, I followed this thread from the being and found very interesting and helpful. I wish more of our fellow forum users would post there success stories. Most users post a problem, receive a few replys for possible solutions and then never inform rest of us what worked or didn't work.