Found problem.......Need solution

diydoug · 07-02-2005, 02:15 PM

I have finally found the problem with my 1990 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3.3L that I referred to in my previous thread.

Now I need advice on the solution.

Engine is stalling after the car gets "warm" (about 15-20 min. of running)
Inspected and replaced parts as needed to no avail.
Finally found info on checking fuel injectors and FI circuit, and it appears that all 6 injectors are shutting down.
As far as I know (which isn't much) the only thing controlling the injectors is the computer?

If anyone has any ideas or experience into what else I should check out first it would be most helpful, I would hate to swap out the $84 computer and find that the problem still exists.

GTP Dad · 07-03-2005, 01:56 PM

Pay the $84 for the new computer. It seems you answered your own question, the computer controls the injectors and it appears that the computer has gone bad. It should cure your problem.

diydoug · 07-04-2005, 01:46 PM

Thank you for the advice. I will replace the computer.

diydoug · 07-07-2005, 05:01 PM

Looks like I'm back to square 1. Computer was replaced and "broke in" and the same thing keeps happening.

GTP Dad · 07-07-2005, 06:39 PM

There is only one other solution to this problem and that is replacing all the injectors. I had a 2.8 that when it got warm the injectors would shut down and it felt like the car had a plugged exhaust. Replaced the computer and all the injectors and it ran like a dream. As a matter of fact it still ran when I gave it to a guy with 209K miles on it. Before you spend the money on new injectors check the wiring to the injectors themselves. Sometimes the wires frey and they will not send the proper signal. You may also want to purchase a used set from a wrecking yard to see if this works, a lot cheaper than a new one. Check car-part.com for a local wrecking yard in your area.

diydoug · 07-09-2005, 09:56 PM

I checked the wiring to the injectors and everything seems OK.

This afternoon I drove the car for 2 mins. up to the store to buy milk(assuming I had a good fifteen minutes to drive before it stalled) and it ran fine as it always does on the way there. When I came back out of the store 10 mins. later the car stalled about 5 secs. after starting.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????
I tried to start it up again, and it turned over and halfway fired a few times and died.
Tried to start it again and it just turns over.
I ended up walking home and I waited about 4 hours until I went back to get my car.
Still wouldn't start.
This is the first time it will not start "cold".

Is it possible that all 6 injectors have gone bad at the same time and are preventing the car from even starting?

Is there anything that I am overlooking?

I am about to go nuts with this damn car!!

Chris Stewart · 07-09-2005, 10:44 PM

Sorry I'm just now getting on this, it's most likely the device on the motor that "tells" the computer the crankshaft position. With this info, the computer knows who and when to squirt & spark. On my little '86 Cutlass w/2.5 TBI 4 banger, it was inside the distributor...pickup coil, and the whole distributor had to be replaced. It worked until it warmed up then it started acting up and would actually shut off the fuel.
2 years later it did the same thing again and guess what? It was the distributor again. I read once that a going bad ignition coil will mess up the pickup so I changed that too.

I guess when the sensor went dead, the computer thought the motor wasn't running and figures "it ain't runnin'!! I guess I'll shut the fuel off so we won't catch fire or stink up the car" and quits the injector squirts.

I don't know exactly where the crankshaft position sensor is on a 3.3, somewhere near the crankshaft belt pulley...sorry. There doesn't seem to be a trouble code for this either or else you could go straight to it.

GTP Dad · 07-10-2005, 08:56 AM

I have to agree with Chris, is definately sounds like the crank position sensor has gone bad that is why it won't start for you. The only other thing that would stop it from starting like this especially if you are getting fuel is the ignition module located under the coils. Sorry about all the problems you are having they can get extremely frustrating when one thing happens after another. By the way all 6 injectors can go bad at the same time especially in a high mileage engine.

diydoug · 07-10-2005, 01:14 PM

I replaced the CPS and even put on a new harmonic balancer a week and a half ago when the car first started stalling. It was the first thing I thought about since the same problem happened a year ago.
There is a trouble code for the CPS on this model (yet it didn't show up a year ago??) the local garage I ended up taking it to last year told me it was the sensor and replaced it (for $300 total!?!?!) and that took care of it up till now.

When it started stalling again recently I assumed the sensor to be faulty and changed it.--Same thing kept happening(15-20 mins. of idle/drive and it stalled out)

I had ignition module tested at local parts store and everyting checked out fine(including coil packs)
I have good spark at all 6 cylinders.

Car is being towed home Monday morning.
I will recheck everything and probably change out injectors to see if that works.

Thanks for your responses. I really appreciate the advice.

Chris Stewart · 07-10-2005, 04:07 PM

Have you checked the fuel pressure when it's acting up?

diydoug · 07-11-2005, 01:05 PM

I have correct fuel pressure before, during, and after stall.

diydoug · 07-14-2005, 12:20 PM

Got the car back home.
Tried to start it -- wouldn't start.
Rechecked everything I checked before to make sure I didn't miss anything -- still no start.

Car sat for another day -- went out to start it and it started!!
It idled fine for about 3 mins. but as soon as I hit the accelerator it stalled out.
It started right back up -- and stalled right back out as soon as gas was hit.
Would not start again after that -- sounds like cylinders are firing occasionally at times, others times nothing at all.

I'm trying to locate a noid light and will recheck resistance of injectors.
(That's all I know how to do to check injectors still on car?)

Is there any other way to make sure injectors are faulty/good??

GTP Dad · 07-14-2005, 06:19 PM

Not really the noid light is probably the best way to test them. Did you check the TPS? Since it refuses to rev then it may be bad. You can check it with a digital volt meter.

diydoug · 07-15-2005, 04:13 PM

TPS checked out fine.
Rechecked resistance of injectors -- 3 checked out fine (1,3,5) 3 are not in specification range stated in repair manual (2,4,6).
Injectors 4 & 6 are slighty higher, injector 2 is about half of what it should be.
All injectors were tested "cold"

How would a "warm" reading change a faulty injector's resistance?
How will a lower or higher resistance effect performance?
I'm in the dark on most electrical aspects.

GTP Dad · 07-15-2005, 06:51 PM

The injector resistance should remain constant whether they are cold or hot. It may go up just slightly if there are a lot of miles on them. If you get a high resistance reading then the injectors are bad and need replaced. The higher the resistance goes the less performance you will get from them. Usually a high resistance injector will stop working if it gets too high. In an earlier post I mentioned that on a 2.8 I had to replace all 6 injectors. The resistance was sky high when hot and the injectors shut down almost completely and the car would not rev, it actually felt like a clogged cat but it was the injectors.

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD