Are Vipers a good car?

[rr7rr7]

I know that was a dumb topic header, but I am new at these boards. Anyway, My dad and I one weekend went to look at cars. We went and looked at Porsches and Vipers. We were totally turned off by them, mainly becuase he did not want to pay 66 grand for a car that had a V-6. The Boxster S. The seats were to small and the salesman was a jerk, and would not even let me sit in the car. So we left and made our wsay to the friendly dodge dealership. We could not drive one becuase he said that we would have to buy one in order to drive it, but I think he thought we were just father and son test driving cars for the fun of it. With the economy down, but on the rise, my dad and I might miss the second gen vipers, and want to buy a second gen viper, but 3rd will be out when we will get the chance. So, are used Vipers good cars? Or are they POS's. I heard that the older ones "hiss" and the newer ones don't. Do Vipers break down alot? My dad and I have had problems in the past with some American made cars. My mom absolutly wont buy one, I don't know why. Do they require alot of mantinence? I hope the replies are good news, becuase I can't wait to see the looks on my friends faces when I pull up in the school parking look in one And are they good for cruising aorund. Like a regular car? Would it hurt it if we didn't go fast? My dad has a beamer and we floor it everytime we pull next a porsche or someother car.

[Polygon]

Well I hope you and your father are experienced drivers because if you get on the throttle of a Viper it can get dicey. Though if you know what you are doing they are one of the biggest kicks to drive.

As far as my opinion goes, I feel they are great cars and are quite resilient. They are built by hand. I feel that Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep is the most reliable domestic brand you can buy, but that is just my opinion. You may want more input than just from me. I have never owned one, just merely driven one.

[Viper 10]

RR:

First of all the reason that you can't find any Vipers in a showroom is because they are all made to order. The only reason that you will find one is if the order was cancelled or it is a used car.

Here is a brief histroy on the Vipers... The Gen 1 Vipers had some build quality issues in the first couple of years (and also did not come with windows or door handles until '95). Their original HP rating was 400 HP, and was bumped up to 415 in '94/'95. All Gen 1 Vipers were RT/10's. The Gen 2 GTS Coupe came out in '96 with a completely upgraded engine (to 450 HP), chassis and suspension. The RT/10 did not get all of these upgrades until '97. Cams were toned down after '97 because people complained about the aggressive sound of the overlap. Pistons were changed from TRW forged to hyperreutectic cast ones in '00. ABS brakes were added in all '00 cars and beyond.

Polygon is very correct in asking about your driving abilities (and your dad). The Viper is one of the most amazing performing vehicles on the road. It takes more driver attention and input than any car on the road. In other words, if you think that you can drive a Viper because it has 3 pedals, a stick shift and a steering wheel, then you are in for a rude awakening. It was designed and built with one thing in mind, and that is racing. On a track (in the hands of a skilled driver) there is no car that will out perform it in their stock form.

The reason why this car is such a handful is because of torque. On Euro and Asian exotics, you basically need to get these engines revved up to 4,500 rpm to touch their torque and power curves. This basically means that you have a 4000 rpm buffer to work with (which makes them very forgiving).

On a Viper, you basically have 490 lb-ft og torque from 450 rpm (idle) to 5500 rpm (which is where the torque curve drops off). What you get is the most incredible 1st and 2nd gears in the automotive industry. This is the closest thing to a race car that you will find off of the showroom floor. Because of this incredible amount of torque, it makes your driving errors even more amplified (therefore your margin for error is decreased significantly).

On a quarter mile strip, you can basically smoke through 1st, 2nd and halfway through 3rd before hooking the tires up. On a road course, this car naturally likes to go into oversteer with just a small blip of the gas pedal (also known as drifting). How many cars do you know of that can pull sub-12 second 1/4 miles, stop from 60 to 0 in 110 ft, do 1.03 G's on a skidpad, and turn 192 mph top speeds out of the showroom? This is the standard that modified tuner cars strive for. They rarely match this car in all of the categories.

As for reliability, you get what you put into it. Service it regularly and don't abuse it, and you will get a car that will easily turn 100,000+ miles without a hitch. This engine was built to be driven, and it is very reliable. If you decide to buy one, promise me and yourselves that you and your dad will attend a high performance driving school(s). I have been driving around tracks since 1975 and have attended numerous driving schools (5 weekend schools in the Viper). This car can bite you in your a$$ like a real snake if you are not paying attention. Other cars like Corvettes and Porsches are much more forgiving, to the extent that I would consider them more like GT cars than sports cars.

If you go with either a used Viper or a new one, make sure that you buy the factory extended warranty. These engines can be very costly if something goes wrong (a new crate engine will cost you close to $15,000 installed). I have owned my GTS Coupe for more than 4 years and I drive it every single day.

Most Vipers are either garage queens, dyno queens or 1/4 queens. The reason that I say this is because most drivers are afraid to drive their cars (or just do not know how to). If you plan on taking your car to occasional visits to the track and like a serious amount of attention everywhere you go, then you have found a great car. If you want creature comforts and do not want to attract attention, go buy a Corvette, NSX or Porsche.

If you a dead serious about buying a Viper, I would strongly suggest that you rent one for a day. I have seen and heard of too many people buy one of these cars without driving them first, and literally come back returning the car to the dealer that very same day.

This car is not for the faint hearted...

Finally, I would strongly suggest that you do your research carefully. You can start by going over to http://www.viperclub.org . There is a good forum to ask questions on, as well as info on TSB's and production numbers (and colors).

Feel free to drop me an email if I can be of further assistance at bhchang@earthlink.net . I'm not sure where you live, but if it is anywhere near Southern California (or plan on traveling out this way), I would be happy to show you my car and take you for a spin. Mine is pretty much stock with upgraded brakes (pre-2000 Vipers had very weak brakes).


Good luck.

Brad

[Viper 10]

What ever happened to you and your dad shopping for the Viper?

Judging from the feedback (or lack of), you probably found outthat you in way over your head when it came to the Viper. Comparing the Snake to a Boxster is a big mistake.

Give us an update.

Brad

[rr7rr7]

The economy made a big downturn and we decided to hang on to our car until the summer... Looking at a used 94 with the side pipes and re paint it.

[Viper 10]

Go for any RT after '97 or GTS's. The chassis and engines had some significant improvements in the Gen 2 cars.

JMO

Brad

[MAD_C_ZN]

Just to elaborate on what the Viper dude has informed you of:

Dodge is great. The engines they build are really excellent, but the transmissions are NOT very good compared to GM or even Ford.
This makes them not as reliable or long lasting as a GM or Ford.

The resale value of Dodge is at an all-time low right now, their Sebrings are selling for what a Ford Contour would normally sell for. That's just to give you a heads up for what their vehicles are running like for the time being.

Next, if you want a reliable high performance vehicle that's built domestically, i have 3 suggestions.

First the Viper. You've got info on that. Next is the Shelby Mustangs,
the top of the line. Only .37 seconds slower all around compared to
the Viper, and it's resale with reliablilty is 10, 000 times better.

Next up, the new Corvette Z06. Now people will laugh at me bringing
this up, but it's the same all round performance as a Viper, with the exception of the top speed. Car and Driver magazine ranked it ! of 2 over the Viper only because it's a nicer vehicle to drive around in.....IE more comfortable.

Plus, where else can you find a car that beats the Viper off the line, holds the same performance as the Viper with much more forgiveness allowing for high performance with an unskilled driver, and get this:

Viper, cruising at 35 in 3rd gear, floors it. Will hit 125 in 5 seconds.
Z06, cruising at 35 in 3rd gear, floors it. Will hit 140 in 3 4.2 seconds.

Like i say, the only real difference is the Viper is a higher top speed,
but doesn't accelerate like a Corvette.

There's a break down for ya, hope that helps you.

Peace. :sun:

[Viper 10]

Hey Mad Moron:

Sorry for this comment, but what in the hell are you smoking? Yo are saying that a Viper compares to a Mustang and a Z06? You have obviously NEVER driven a Viper or you wouldn't be saying this. If you have then you have no clue how to drive one.

My replies below:

Originally posted by MAD_C_ZN
Just to elaborate on what the Viper dude has informed you of:

Dodge is great. The engines they build are really excellent, but the transmissions are NOT very good compared to GM or even Ford.
This makes them not as reliable or long lasting as a GM or Ford.

* you idiot, they use EXACTLY the same tranny in the Viper that they do in all of the C5's... you are revealing your biases and intelligence here.

The resale value of Dodge is at an all-time low right now, their Sebrings are selling for what a Ford Contour would normally sell for. That's just to give you a heads up for what their vehicles are running like for the time being.

* Look at the statistics, Viper prices have not come down and sales are up in this recession. It is the only car in the DC product line that they can say this about..

Next, if you want a reliable high performance vehicle that's built domestically, i have 3 suggestions.

First the Viper. You've got info on that. Next is the Shelby Mustangs,
the top of the line. Only .37 seconds slower all around compared to
the Viper, and it's resale with reliablilty is 10, 000 times better.

* You read too much of that propaganda crap from the car magazines... I will bet you that the Viper has fewer TSB's than either the C5 or the Mustangs.

Next up, the new Corvette Z06. Now people will laugh at me bringing
this up, but it's the same all round performance as a Viper, with the exception of the top speed. Car and Driver magazine ranked it ! of 2 over the Viper only because it's a nicer vehicle to drive around in.....IE more comfortable.

* YOU ARE SO FULL OF POOP! The C&D article is linked here at.. http://caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddri...keywords=Viper
You must be a C&D editor that prostitutes the facts for $$$. Why is it that BMW beat you guys out with their POS M3, because of the number of cupholders and seats that it has?

* The Z06 does not outperform the Viper in a single category bozo. The only thing that they beat the Vipers in before '01 model was braking distances. You are rating the practicality or the performance of these cars. Why don't you tell the truth about the fact that the Viper blew away the Z in every comparison and category, except for ride comfort, cup holders. vanity mirrors, lipstick holders and tampon dispensers. The Corvette has turned into the Lazy Boy recliner of sports cars...

Plus, where else can you find a car that beats the Viper off the line, holds the same performance as the Viper with much more forgiveness allowing for high performance with an unskilled driver, and get this:

Viper, cruising at 35 in 3rd gear, floors it. Will hit 125 in 5 seconds.
Z06, cruising at 35 in 3rd gear, floors it. Will hit 140 in 3 4.2 seconds.

You are wrong here again bozo. First of all who in their right mind would race from 3rd gear at 35 mph? The Viper 1st gear goes to 60 and the 2nd gear goes to 85! Your comparison is irrelevant and stupid!

Like i say, the only real difference is the Viper is a higher top speed,
but doesn't accelerate like a Corvette.

* Wrong by a longshot. 0 to 60 in moderately skilled driver 4.0, in a well skilled driver's hands 3.8. 1/4 mile in a stock Viper moderately skilled driver 12.0. in a well skilled driver 11.6!!! I can get you in contact with the driver that does these times consistantly. On the other hand the Z06 pulls .96-.98 G's on a skidpad and the Viper pulls 1.03 G's.

There's a break down for ya, hope that helps you.

Peace. :sun:

Read these and weep. Ask yourself why any amgazines have not tested a '01 Viper against a Z06? Because it will kick its butt in ALL categories of the Z06, the Lambo's, Porsches and the mediocre pussy car the 360 Modena. If you find a copy of GM Performance and Tech, you will see a heads up comparison between the Z an dthe Snake. Unfortunately, it is only an acceleration test. It does show that there is a signifcant difference between these cars.

http://popularmechanics.com/automoti...rs/print.phtml
http://popularmechanics.com/automoti...rs/print.phtml
http://popularmechanics.com/automoti...er/print.phtml
[url]

These two cars are completely different animals. The Corvettes are chasing the Viper, but will never catch them unless you add mods or get a tuner to re-work the car. Be thankful that the Viper exists, because the Z06 would not, had in not been for the existance of the Snake.

Telling lies is a luxury of the internet. I cannot let something like the blatent lies that you spew, get swept under the carpet. I own a Viper and a Corvette. I have many friends that own and race C5, Z06 and all generation Corvettes. Not one of them will ever tell you that stock versus stock, that the Z is better than a Viper in the areas of performance. Your explanation shows your true stripes and how little you know about Vipers. Go back to your magazines and your dyno and 1/4 queen mentality (you might as well be a ricer if you aren't already there). In trying to put down other cars, you end up making yourself look bad. I respect the passion that others have for cars.

I truly like C5's and Z06's, but they are not anything in performance when compared to a Viper. In the words of Emerson Fittipaldi "the Viper is the closest thing that the public can buy...". Oh and by the way, if you want to buy a full race prepped Viper Competition Coupe, it'll only cost you $12,000 more than the standard ACR. How much does Lingenfelter or Hennessey rip you off for to get comparable performance numbers with a STOCK Viper?

Of course that's JMO. Your serve!

Brad

[UncleMeat777]

my car will outperform a viper or new Z06... but I still want a Viper... must be the sex appeal. :sun:

[kidrocket]

you talk about respect for all cars and then say, might as well be a ricer.
what about those of us who truly have a passion for cars and do not care about where they are from? I am in love with vipers, corvettes, mustangs, but I also like hondas, and other imports. Not trying to flame i just thought that was kinda backwards. Oh and chevy is considering putting the Z06 over 450hp to compete with the viper for the next body style vette. I dont know if that will actually happen, but i know it has been kicked around recently.

by the way you have a badass car lineup. I hope that someday i may be as fortunate, but for now i have to work with what i got right?

[Viper 10]

Kid:

My comment about ricers has nothing to do with Asian import cars. I was referring more about attitudes that ricers have when they comment about other cars. Pride is one thing, but trash talk belongs to street racers who can't do their thing on a track where it is safe, and takes more skill than balls.

I used to road race Datsun 510's and 240Z's when I was your age, and I am very proud of making the best with what I had too. Even when I was able to drive circles around better and more expensive cars, I didn't talk trash about them.

I appreciate all types of cars, but I do prefer high performance ones. Thanks for the kind words about my stable. I hope that I can add a Ford GT-40 to it soon. What do you think of a Dodge, Chevy and Ford sitting in one garage?

The bottom ine is that I am truly blessed to own these cars, and on occasion enjoy them atthe track.

Take care and be safe.

Brad

[kidrocket]

point taken about ricers. i cant stand those kids either. As for the chevy/ ford/ dodge thing i say go for it and who cares about who made it. All three companys make a great product. I havent been impressed with ford until recent years. Also i think chevy has been continuously shooting themselves in the foot. They have a small rwdf car/pickup called the Holden Ute in australia that they said would cost less than 19k in America and has a 315 hp Ls1. Slap an El camino badge on it and market it like the t bird or some other retro concept and you have a winner in my opinion. What other company has a new car with over 300 hp for less than 19k? No wonder fords product has become so much better than it was.