Viper vs GT40

[DeViL]

Maserati, funny I found a thing on the internet that said they actually produce these cars in America. I've certainly never seen one or even heard about the company. It kind of reminds me of a Ferrari/Aston Martin type car. I would of definately remembered the looks if I ever did see it on the street.

Skyline is one pretty car. I definately don't hate Nissan at all it seems to be able to create some pretty good running cars, 300ZX for one. Like I said I wish they would send the Skyline to America. Given I had the money, I'd consider it, but the 4wd kind of turns me off.

That GTR looks like some crazy ass car completely designed for road course. Very cool though how much does that thing cost?

The specs of the original Cobra had the 427 that I think was producing around 500 hp. That thing was nuts I've seen a replica with the 427 zip down the road. That AC 212 you posted probably is pretty quick but it ain't worth considering since there is a AC Cobra you can buy that is pretty much the real thing. If that is something they only produce in Europe, you're getting ripped off.

[Pennzoil GT-R]

yep, there is no other car like a Maserati, below is the old Ghibli Cup:





As for the Ultima GTR's price=£45,500.

[v10_viper]

they may be better but i dont think any of those cars run a 3.07 in the rear, the viper has the lowest axle ratio and it still beats almost all of those cars, the GTR is the only car that will beat it in anything because it is faster overall, and it can hold more g's and it has a faster slalom speed, but that car was designed to race, and i dont think any one of those cars has the torque range like the Viper does. and dont start that tuning bull crap because if your goin to compare cars then compare them STOCK, u can mod up a Viper to have over 1000 hp and u can mod a Skyline up to over that much too, but your going to end up spending about the same on those cars when u do because the Viper starts out with more horsepower and only has to double it to which the Skyline has to triple it. this is also GT40 versus the Viper, why are u changing the cars just because the Viper is the winner in here? why dont u go start a new forum on all those cars and everything so u can have your way.

[Pennzoil GT-R]

i listed those cars because someone asked which cars would beat a Viper for the same or less money. And maybe most of those cars would lose to the Viper in acceleration, but for all round capability most of them beat the Viper. I was talking both handling and straight line speed. And anyway, you have to be a damn good driver to be able to use all the Viper's power and torque, so the average driver on the street is never gonna be able to achieve the test figures for it. The Viper is huge power, huge torque , huge weight, it is the classic American muscle car. And while you guys may love it for the same reasons as us Brits love cars like MG, it just isnt able to compete with other offerings from around the globe.

[v10_viper]

oh so now Vipers can't compete with Jap cars like S2000's or Accords?? the new Vipers will be putting down on the ground for power what the old engines were making, the engine has been lowered, it's got a longer wheelbase but it's overall longer, it has a less coefficient drag, how bout u pull your thumb outta your ass and realize that the Viper has become one of the best cars in the world, realize i say one of the best.

and the question that was asked was what is a car you can buy for 70,000 in our great country, u came up with the Skyline and Ultima GTR, i dont think the GTR can be sold here, the Skyline u can have imported but it's gonna cost damn near as much as a Viper, and there's no way a BMW or Maserati will beat a Viper for all around performance, the new one is going to be a way better performer than the old one.

0-60: 3.8
0-100: 9.3
1/4 mile: 12 @ 115
top speed: 195 drag limited, and that much power will put it over 200 mph for sure, the Diablo had 492hp, a six speed and it's final gear ratio wasn't as low as the Viper's even. tell me who has built a 505 cubic inch V-10, that's a monster. and yes u do need to be a good driver to handle this car. it also corners absolutely awesome, who are your two pro racing friends, i wanna know what they drove and on what kind of an occasion, or are these just your make believe pro racing friends, and if they're not, what do they drive in racing?

[Gravitom]

Originally posted by v10_viper
who are your two pro racing friends, i wanna know what they drove and on what kind of an occasion, or are these just your make believe pro racing friends, and if they're not, what do they drive in racing?

Well Andretti said the Viper was a sloppy car in the Road and Track article when he tested the Vette, Viper, Espirit, NSX and some other car. And my uncle owned one an it broke down all the time. So I'll take the word of a racing legend and my own family over fanboys online.

I don't hate the Viper but its not the best car in the world just because it lays down impressive numbers. Personally I think the GT-40 will outperform the Viper. Mostly because its being designed to beat the Viper and I bet Ford will do everything in its power and budget to dethrone the Viper as the King of the 1/4 mile (despite the fact that drag racing is retarded anyway). Ford has more money and more technology than Daimler Chrysler so they can do it. But then when the Viper gets redesigned they will probably take the lead again, if the Germans don't pull the plug on a niche car that doesn't earn make them much money.

[DeViL]

Lets face it, its like America is the only country who cares about drag racing and nascar. The rest of the world is into rally races and road course tracks. Just goes to show you how much different we really are compared to everyone else.

The Viper is huge power, huge torque , huge weight, it is the classic American muscle car

But yet its heavy and slow? Contradicting yourself here aren't you?

dont think any of those cars run a 3.07 in the rear

With that said I have a question for Viper10. With that type of gear ratio, the Viper supposedly gets like 11 mpg right? With a 4.10 gear ratio, what kind of gas mileage would you be expecting? I can imagine its going to be horrible compared to most muscle cars.

[Pennzoil GT-R]

i dont remember ever comparing the S2000 OR the Accord to the Viper. I was going by what you can buy for $70,000 in My country, because i dont know what prices you are charged over there. You cant talk about the new Viper because its not out yet, so you dont really know what it is like. My 2 pro racing drivers haave driven GTS Coupe's i think. One has won 2 or 3 championships over here, competed in the Bathhurst 500, and the other has won about 7 championships, and had a works TVR drive, and is an instructor at a big UK racetrack. Both have raced against huge horsepower Porsches and Vipers in an inferior cars at the Nurburgring 24 hour 3 times, and finished 40th last time out of a field of about 210. So you cant say they dont know what they are doing.

DeViL: i said that sentence with "huge weight" being the operative word. If youre name ends in Schumacher then sure the Viper is damn fast, but apart from that it is a handful, and isnt fast enough when compared with other cars.

[YogsVR4]

Isn't fast enough when compared to other cars? Are you nuts? When cars are anywhere near the number a Viper puts down then they are scary fast.













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[Viper 10]

Originally posted by DeViL
With that said I have a question for Viper10. With that type of gear ratio, the Viper supposedly gets like 11 mpg right? With a 4.10 gear ratio, what kind of gas mileage would you be expecting? I can imagine its going to be horrible compared to most muscle cars.

Who gets 11 mpg with the stock 3.07's (unless they were born witha 500 pound right foot)? I get that mileage when I am having fun with my car, but it is fully capable of getting over 20 mpg in 6th gear on the highway.

I don't know anyone who is stupid enough to run 4.10 gears on a Viper. That would essentially make 1st gear useless and have you revving at very high rpm's on the highway. It would also probably drop your top speed down to 150mph (with 3.55 it comes down to 165).

Sorry, but most people who own Vipers (and other exotics and muscle cars) don't care anything about gas mileage.

[DeViL]

Who gets 11 mpg with the stock 3.07's (unless they were born witha 500 pound right foot)? I get that mileage when I am having fun with my car, but it is fully capable of getting over 20 mpg in 6th gear on the highway.

Fuel Economy
11/21 mpg
Thats what I found when I was looking for info on Vipers.

I don't know anyone who is stupid enough to run 4.10 gears on a Viper. That would essentially make 1st gear useless and have you revving at very high rpm's on the highway. It would also probably drop your top speed down to 150mph (with 3.55 it comes down to 165).

4.10 is a pretty common gear ratio for most drag racing cars. A lot of the people into it big time will go higher then that and possibly into 5.

Sorry, but most people who own Vipers (and other exotics and muscle cars) don't care anything about gas mileage.

Why the hell did you even bother saying that? I already know that but if a Viper gets a lot less mpg then most cars with a 4.10, it would be pretty annoying trying to get to the track. Probably end up refilling the tank 4 or 5 times before you get there. That would suck.

Also most people drag racing don't really care about top speed unless their top speed is around 80 or 90. I can't imagine you ending up down the 1/4 mile at 180 mph.

[Viper 10]

Devil:

First, mmy comment about 4.10's is right on in the VIPER world. Go ahead and post on the VCA web site to see how many people are running 4.10's on their Vipers. The only ones that you will find running those gears are on dedicated track cars.

Secondly, if you have done your homework on Vipers you would know that the weakest link on the Viper drivetrain are the halfshafts (followed by the differential). The halfshafts are easily turned into pretzels with just a few serious burnouts. I know someone who did it to their Snake in the first month of ownership. Most serious drag folks upgrade their halfshafts to racing ones (which still let go, but last longer than stock).

The Dana Super 44 rearend is known to take somewhere around 100-150 hard drag starts before they self-detruct (that comes directly from a source at Dana).

The other thing that you would find (if you did your homework) is that the biggest problem with racing a Viper on a 1/4 mile strip is traction. It is difficult enough to get traction with 3.07's and 3.55's. 4.10's would pretty much ensure that you are doing a burnout through at least the first 3 gears. From what I understand about drag racing (I prefer road racing), that burning out the entire quarter may look cool, but it won't win you races.

I have friends that regularly turn 11.7's in bone stock Vipers, and I also have friends (who have headers, exhaust, gears, intake, hi-flow cats and more) and can barely break 13. So what is your point? Lower gears will help you improve your 1/4 mile times? 4.10's might be a standard in the drag racing world, but not in the Viper world. My point is that going to a gear set-up like this will only make the Viper more unruly and reduce your margin for error even more.

The Viper generates an obscene amount of torque. That is why you see people who are not experienced in driving them, run embarassing times. You would be best suited at swapping the rearend differential for a solid 4 link rear end and quick change differential, if you are serious about drag racing. That's what guys like Sir Hiss are running.

With regard to your reply on the mileage, if you ran the 4.10 you would still be able to get decent mileage by running in 6th gear (which most of us almost never use with 3.07's). I would view the 6th gear as a somewhere closer to a 4th with 4.10's. I call it out tree-hugger gear, for those environmentally sensitive Viper owners...

If it's any interest to you, Tony Darwin (aka Sir Hiss) drives his drag Viper everyday to work and to most of his track events in and around Miami (and he is running a 550+ cubic inch Donavan hemi). If mileage and the number of fill-ups bothers you, then get an oversized fuel cell and replace the stock gas tank. 3.55's are the gear ratio of choice by most Viper owners who drag and road race.

I can tell you that when I am on a road racing track, my mileage is terrible. Getting to the tracks is easy if I'm not on the car hard. I drive about 2 to 3 hours to get to the local tracks in SoCal (unless I'm in a rush).


Brad

[DeViL]

I'm going to try and not be an asshole about this so here goes.

Look gas mileage isn't a concern to me at all. What was my point? All I was just saying for the hell of it that a Viper probably would get horrible gas mileage with a low gear ratio like that. I didn't realize that it would also make a big pain in the ass trying to drive it. Never knew Vipers were that much different from any GM or Ford powerhouse vehicle.

The other thing that you would find (if you did your homework) is that the biggest problem with racing a Viper on a 1/4 mile strip is traction

If I did my homework geez sorry I love the Viper and all but I've never found out every little thing about it. I'm not really surprised though that it has traction problems. I think I can see why.

See I never knew that I figured this car could easily be set up for drag racing. Didn't know about the halfshafts thing either. Ok so what exactly is the point of this car then? Is it to compete on road coarses? I know it ain't the worst handling car in the world but I do know the Corvette can out maneuver this car.

[DeViL]

btw Penzoil, I mentioned I've never seen that Maserati before in America even though that website said they sold them here. That pic of the red car you showed, I think someone in my neighborhood has one of those. It looks pretty similar to that except its white. I've never really taken a good look to see if it said Maserati anywhere though. Do they have a company symbol I could look for?

[Viper 10]

Originally posted by DeViL
If I did my homework geez sorry I love the Viper and all but I've never found out every little thing about it. I'm not really surprised though that it has traction problems. I think I can see why.

See I never knew that I figured this car could easily be set up for drag racing. Didn't know about the halfshafts thing either. Ok so what exactly is the point of this car then? Is it to compete on road coarses? I know it ain't the worst handling car in the world but I do know the Corvette can out maneuver this car.

Devil:

Sorry for my attitude, but I encunter many people who read too many magazines about Vipers...

To give you an idea of what i mean about driving difficulties, read the latest Car & Driver. You'll see 1/4 mile times and performance numbers on the tuner Vipers that are (at best) can be called mediocre.
- TNT Serpent 550 HP, 12.6 seconds
- Apex Lethal Viper 750 HP, 11.8 seconds
- Hennessey Twin Turbo 800 HP, 12.4 seconds

I see one common problem in these numbers, and that is TRACTION. The reason for this is because the folks that drove the tuner shootout, were not very familiar with the Viper's type of performance. I have seen people who drive bone stock Snakes put in consistantly better numbers that C&D did on these 3 tuner Vipers.

If you are really motivated to learn about Vipers and the stuff that I mentined, hang around ths site;;;Viper Club of America . My advice would be to start by cruising the archives under subjects like "halfshafts", "gears", "drag racing" and so on...

You will find all kinds of information from the basic stuff to driving and launch techniques. Don't forget to go into the archives of the message board too.

I'll post some more info that relates to your questions.

Take care,

Brad