Bugatti Veyron 16.4 vs Cadillac Sixteen

[flylwsi]

since you noted...
"who said the sledgehammer can only go straight"

when did you ever see something built by VAG that was designed to go straight?

awd isn't for cars that go straight. we all know that.

so why wouldn't the veryon handle well?

after seeing the 16, i'm not sure it could turn a wheel, let alone handle in a corner, while the veryon has been seen on track testing at ferrari challenge events...

and keep in mind that the veryon is real, and has been driven, while the 16 is a concept car.

and... since it's been noted...

turbos may "make up for displacement" but they aren't going to make up for the tq, and turbo'd cars of smaller displacement *than their n/a counterparts* tend to make less tq. but not that much.

the power of the car, for it's motor size, is pretty impressive. gm made it easy and built a massive motor. not hard to extract power out of that.

[Neutrino]

Originally posted by WakkaWu

Thats ones of the stupidest things I have heard.At first look,the Sixteen is very areodynamic.Very.I don't know the top speed but from what I have read,the Sixteen is a 200 plus mph car.With a car with 1000 HP areodynamics don't effect too much,though may I say again,the Sixteen has awsome areodynamics.

Ok if you would actually stop and read again my post it says "at first look" which means its an opinion and it gives you no right to flame my post.Please learn how do respond in a civilised manner. I never claimed any numers because i cound not find any. And ask anyone even with 1000 hp aerodinamics are very important even at those high speeds. A mean why do you think trucks have huge problems getting over 110 mph with ~ 500 hp whyle a honda with 110 hp can do it aerodinamics.

And the only ignorant statement here is this "areodynamics don't effect too much" made by you how can you say this at speeds over 200mph.

And again my statement about how aerodynamic the caddy was was a guess so stop flaming. I made that guess by comparing its exterior looks with cars that do go over 200 mph like the F1 or the enzo and compared to those cars it just does not look as aerodynamic.

[flylwsi]

much agreed... you could have a car with 100hp do over 200, you just need a long enough road and the right gearing.

which i doubt that a 4 spd auto is going to have, even with a v16. and i can't imagine a high enough redline in that motor to get that thing up to those speeds or beyond... without sacrificing the lowend speed and acceleration...

and look at how high it is off the ground. you really think that car will be stable at all over 140, let alone 200?

look at all the cars that break 200. they're sitting much lower to the ground to help aid their aerodynamics...

[WakkaWu]

and keep in mind that the veryon is real, and has been driven, while the 16 is a concept car.

There has been one Sixteen made as it has been driven.

Ok if you would actually stop and read again my post it says "at first look" which means its an opinion and it gives you no right to flame my post.Please learn how do respond in a civilised manner. I never claimed any numers because i cound not find any. And ask anyone even with 1000 hp aerodinamics are very important even at those high speeds. A mean why do you think trucks have huge problems getting over 110 mph with ~ 500 hp whyle a honda with 110 hp can do it aerodinamics.

Ok,I apolagize for flaming your post but even from first look,I think its common sense that it has great areodynamics."At first look i doubt the caddy is capable of anything above 180mph."That claiming numbers isnt it?Trucks have huge problem getting over 110 becuase they weigh soo much.

And the only ignorant statement here is this "areodynamics don't effect too much" made by you how can you say this at speeds over 200mph.

And you also left out the part with a car with 1000HP.And IF it didnt have areodynamics it probably wouldnt have trouble hitting the 200 mark or at least close to it.

much agreed... you could have a car with 100hp do over 200, you just need a long enough road and the right gearing.

All cars have a limit to there speed.A car with 100HP would not hit the 200 mark even with the right gearing and long enough road.Thats why all cars have a top speed.

which i doubt that a 4 spd auto is going to have, even with a v16. and i can't imagine a high enough redline in that motor to get that thing up to those speeds or beyond... without sacrificing the lowend speed and acceleration...

The Sixteen is a 6 speed automatic I believe.

and look at how high it is off the ground. you really think that car will be stable at all over 140, let alone 200?look at all the cars that break 200. they're sitting much lower to the ground to help aid their aerodynamics...

The Sixteen isnt high off the ground,its very low infact.The Sixteen is a 220 plus car,thats fact,not opinion,based on what I read.The Sixteen sits about 3 inches of the ground and because of how wide it is it hugs the road.

[FYRHWK1]

AWD isnt for cars that go around a track either, we all know this, I'd like to see you mention a dedicated racecar, or even a highly sucessful road car that runs AWD? even the 911's better version runs RWD. AWD in a highspeed turn will overload the front tires and cause understeer, it's not something that can be tuned out via suspension either.

Turbos make getting power from a motor EASIER, how could you possibly think making a larger engine is EASIER? especially when that larger NA motor runs a single cam and 2V heads compared to the DOHC 4V setup in the bugatti.

a 7 speed transmission doesn't mean you automatically have a higher topspeed then a 4 speed auto, as long as the rear wheels turn enough RPM with enough torque it could be a 2 speed, the rim size on a car like this could make up quite a bit in terms of its limitations on wheel RPM as well.
Also, you do realize that as RPM goes up AWD's inertial losses keep increasing? as the bugatti goes up in speed the system will start taking more and more power, and at these levels, a 25% loss at all is a LARGE amount. I'm not saying it wont have a high topspeed, it'll likely have a HIGHER topspeed then the Sixteen, and it should, the Sixteen costs less then 1/3rd of it and is a luxury car with just as much power. These 2 cars shouldn't be compared at all for that matter.

and 0-300 KMH in 14 seconds? i'll believe it when i see it.

Edit: and yes, the Sixteen is a running concept, it was also a last minute job so a 5 or 6 speed automatic is very likely to go into it when production starts, but as of now yes it's a 4 speed.

[flylwsi]

ok... a car that is built correctly even with 100hp can hit 200. it's not about the power. it's about gearing and overcoming the Cd. but that's besides the point.

the audi quattro system has been banned from most forms of racing, or we'd see more of it...

the speed gt series was won by michael galati.. driving an... s4. oh, wait, that's quattro awd.

the skyline was banned from alot of racing b/c of it's awd.

anything else?


a larger displacement motor is much easier to get power out of. the small block ford and chevy motors are great examples. it's a great design.

but it's still easier to get more power from more displacement.
the number of valves is a moot point. it depends on how much flow you can get from them.

back to gearing... if you want the lowend accel and the high end, the gearing in the trans has much more to do with it than the wheels.

the 7 speed will help to alleviate the problems that would be associated with a 2 spd trans as suggested... like the power glide for example...

i'm well aware that 7 gears doesn't mean higher top end, as most cars that have a 5 or 6 spd option usually have the same final drive, and closer gears in between. however... i'm pretty sure the extra gears in that car will help in the topspeed dept.

[flylwsi]

i'm well aware it's a running car. but you nailed it... concept.

the veryon is in testing for production, much different.

[SuPeRcAr_MaN]

I thought it was clear that these two cars are uncomparible. We can get a better look at the Veyron because it is so much closer to production than the Sixteen. If anyone wants to compare these cars for whatever reason, wait untill they are both in production or at least close to it. Then we can see both stats and prove that these cars are uncomparible, and we might find out some things that we didn't realize in ur judgements about these cars. Just let it go... for now.

[FYRHWK1]

Originally posted by flylwsi
ok... a car that is built correctly even with 100hp can hit 200. it's not about the power. it's about gearing and overcoming the Cd. but that's besides the point.

the audi quattro system has been banned from most forms of racing, or we'd see more of it...

the speed gt series was won by michael galati.. driving an... s4. oh, wait, that's quattro awd.

the skyline was banned from alot of racing b/c of it's awd.

anything else?


a larger displacement motor is much easier to get power out of. the small block ford and chevy motors are great examples. it's a great design.

but it's still easier to get more power from more displacement.
the number of valves is a moot point. it depends on how much flow you can get from them.

back to gearing... if you want the lowend accel and the high end, the gearing in the trans has much more to do with it than the wheels.

the 7 speed will help to alleviate the problems that would be associated with a 2 spd trans as suggested... like the power glide for example...

i'm well aware that 7 gears doesn't mean higher top end, as most cars that have a 5 or 6 spd option usually have the same final drive, and closer gears in between. however... i'm pretty sure the extra gears in that car will help in the topspeed dept.

the quattro was banned? really now, and why is that? like i said AWD does not help you turn, those CARS may have been banned but it had little to do with the AWD.
the S4 won due to its driver and the fact the car is a well built one, it wasn't due to AWD.
name a few races the skyline was banned from? prove that the AWD system is why? I've heard alot of people tell me this but none have come up with any proof of it. And my point still stands, name a dedicated racecar thats run AWD over RWD? those street cars happen to compete well with AWD in their class, that doesnt mean its a better system then RWD or lemans and F1 would be running it.

the number of valves is moot, however 4V heads will almost always outflow 2V ones if designed properly, i know GM can design both very well and i'm hoping VAG can, they dont have a single pushrod engine that i've ever seen. the fact it runs turbos also aids this by essentially making it flow XXX CFM times 2 or 2, remember at 14.7 it's got twice the air being forced in.

a 7 speed would allow you to stay in a set powerband, a 2 speed would require a very short rearend ratio and a wide powerband, but you could essentially go just as fast if you could create a motor with that kind of powerband.

[flylwsi]

did you never see the audi commercials talking about how quattro was banned b/c it was deemed to be too much of an advantage?

you asked about 4wd cars that were high end and winning. i gave you s4 of michael galati. now you dismiss it as being a good driver? having nothing to do with the car?

do you think an fwd a4 would do what he did? nope.

there have been multiple racing series that the quattro system was banned from specifically b/c of it's traction benefits.

[FYRHWK1]

haha, yes, the commercials, corporate BS based on how the quattro system was banned from RALLY RACING, theres a huge difference here. and no a FWD A4 wouldn't do it, but a RWD S4 would, it would likely perform BETTER. I didnt dismiss the car, it has obviously good handling and can produce plenty of power, but the AWD didn't make it win.

[Neutrino]

Originally posted by WakkaWu

Ok,I apolagize for flaming your post but even from first look,I think its common sense that it has great areodynamics."At first look i doubt the caddy is capable of anything above 180mph."That claiming numbers isnt it?Trucks have huge problem getting over 110 becuase they weigh soo much.

Ok you are probably right that i should not have quoted numbers when it was just a guess its just that to me it does not seem as a car with a low drag coeficient. But i guess all this is now a guess so till we can get some hard numbers all this argument is useless.

But i still disagree with you on the reason truks cannot go to fast. I mean look a the new cobra it weights 3700 pounds which is in truck teritory but while still having the same power as some truks it can go over 150 mph because its much more aerodynamically correct. Ask people with trucks how bad if feels when they hit over 110.

[FYRHWK1]

Neutrino is right on, i believe i remember hearing from someone about a ferrari, to reach 200-220 mph a car with a .33 Cd would take something like 7-800 HP compared to one with a .28 or .29 Cd and ~500 HP.
Aerodynamic drag is a HUGE part of it, weight has literally zero bearing on your topspeed. Notice why bikes with so much power to weight can only do 180-220 in the most extreme cases, they have terrible drag numbers because of their aerodynamic profile.

[flylwsi]

no. audi was not banned from rallying with quattro.
they were banned from multiple touring car series.

[flylwsi]

and it was not bs. but nice try.

do you really think they would relay that information in such a public forum only to be proven wrong?

seriously.