Newbie asking: How did you select your equipment?

[cyberkid]

Hey all, following MPWR's suggestion I opened this thread
I'm a complete newbie to machining and would appreciate any help.
My goals when using lathes mills: 1/6(bikes)-1/24 scale stuff, and occasional add-ons for tools and other stuff (nothing big, stuff like what Gio did in this thread)

Lathe with milling column or a lathe and a mill separate:
What is the working envelope of a milling column? Advantages/ disadvantages of using a milling column instead of a separate mill?

I saw that the CNC system can't do threads but with a threading tool add-on manual threading is possible. So, is the procedure of converting CNC to manual a big hassle?

I would love to see what gear you guys have and why you bought them. Hrm I like the way MPWR put it:

Originally Posted by MPWR

"How did you select your equipment?" would probably be a good topic for a thread- a discussion of what people bought and why could be useful for those considering buying machines.

TIA for any opinions and replies.
Steve

[mikemechanic]

Hi Steve,

I guess I'll start off with a few of my observations that may be able to help you out. I too am a newbie to maching, I've had a lathe for about 13 months so I am not as experienced as others on this forum.

I wanted a lathe for quite sometime and looked at many online but was always discouraged by the frieght costs and the possibilities of paying extra with customs, etc. I found out that a local store in town carries the Taig lathe. I looked at it a few times and my wife surprised me with it for a birthday I think all together it was a little under $450 Cdn so I think it was a great deal for starting out.

My observations so far, I quickly found out that there are really only so many round things to make, brake rotors, mufflers, shocks and fire extinguisher. I think that really a lathe is meant to compliment a mill (or milling set-up) I have purchased some accessories for my lathe and made a few modifications. I have added digital readouts to help with accuracey. I have a milling vice but have found out that without a way to divide the chuck into equal parts it really is limited and I really haven't had the time to completely explore it. I feel that a decent mill (or milling set-up) would be a valuable addition to any serious machining set-up.

I also make some things to sell on Ebay in order to pay for my ever growing kit collection and have since learned that if you want to manufacture the same item with any kind of accuracey you will need to consider CNC. My best friend has a chinese lathe that he CNC'd and makes some stunning parts with it and it really does help speed things along, he has made a few parts for me and what takes me in an evening he can do in several minutes. Now CNC'ing is expensive and takes time to learn, also takes a lot of time to set-up your equipment right in order to function properly. There are some great CNC forums out there to learn some of this stuff.

Machining is a constant learning process and I'm still not sure if I am doing things the right way but it is fun and pretty cool when you put something on paper and then make it on the lathe. Take your time in selecting your equipment and keep asking questions I think this forum will be a great place to learn stuff (and I've learned a lot already) I have considered upgrading my lathe but after searching the net and seeing the stuff that people are making on the Taig I think it really has a lot of potential.

I have found over the last year of playing with my lathe that the accessories are just as important as the lathe itself. Things like top slides, quick change tollposts and digital readouts are invaluable items that you will need to add into your budget.

Hope that this all makes sense and helps you out.

Mike

[cyberkid]

Originally Posted by mikemechanic

Hi Steve,
...I also make some things to sell on Ebay in order to pay for my ever growing kit collection and have since learned that if you want to manufacture the same item with any kind of accuracey you will need to consider CNC......Hope that this all makes sense and helps you out.

Mike

Thanks, and yes it does make sense. I've started to quest to save up for a mill/lathe setup which at the current speed will take me a couple years ..
The reason I was thinking about CNC is like what you stated, making multiple items accurately and efficiantly. Unfortunaly, I only have a couple of hours of free time during the week day, so every minute counts.
Quick Q, if you mind me asking, what sort of things are you selling?
Thanks again,
Steve

[Murray Kish]

My decision has a much longer story than this, but the end decision really came down to two things:
- I wanted something I could move around fairly easily (which essentially eliminated the Chinese products)
- I wanted something that was 'popular' in the machining community. Not because I wanted to be cool, but because I knew that my chances of learning things would go up if I could 'connect' with more people using the same tools.

- My personal comments on the Chinese lathes/mills - originally, I wanted something that could handle larger capacities, thus my interest in the Chinese products. However, this comes at the expense of portability, and I realized that what I really wanted was something smaller, and that the likelyhood (for me) of using the larger capacity was pretty remote. Also, the freight/duty/taxes to bring the Chinese stuff into Canada is really quite high, and in the end I didn't find any cost advantage here (despite the initial perception when looking at online prices like MicroMark...)

The two obvious choices that were readily available in Canada were Taig or Sherline. I think there's some other brands that might be more popular in other countires (Proxxon??), but I couldn't really find any of these choices here.

My perceptions of the two (Taig and Sherline) were:
- Taig was definitely more affordable, a bit more robust (at least that's what I interpreted from various debates on many other forums), and was locally available (sorta). These are really nice little machines. Well worth looking at and investigating. There's also some great websites with help/how-tos on using this little gem.
- Sherline was more popular though, has all kinds of attachments/options out the wazzu (available from many places/dealers/online), seemed like a more complete/polished 'package', and just seemed like a 'safer' choice incase I ever wanted to divest and sell it someday. I was able to email/chat with quite a few people who owned Sherline equipment, all of whom were very positive about the product. I also connected with a dealer who was very patient, helpful, and open/honest about the products. In the end, my perception was that it is the 'market leader', and sorta assumed that there must be good reasons for that (perhaps debateable, but my opinion none-the-less)...

So, I bought Sherline. Yes, the Sherline was a more significant investment, but I am happy with my choice. Could I list all of the specific features and items that make it worth more than the Taig? Not likely (at least not me, but perhaps someone else could). It's a bit of a personal/subjective choice. No regrets at all though. I have:

- long bed lathe
- milling column (haven't used it yet, but I really like the fact that I can just buy a 'base' later and install this column to make it into a seperate mill - someday). I *think* this has quite a bit more range/practicality than the Taig milling table that Mike refers to above, and really seems like a good way to get into milling capability without buying a completely seperate machine.
- rotary table (haven't used it yet either, but it is HEAVY... just feels like quality)
- other stuff (vice, chucks, bits, etc, etc)


Looking forward to 'growing' into it. Still learning the basics....


Hope this is helpful to someone....

Murray

[cyberkid]

Originally Posted by Murray Kish

Hope this is helpful to someone....

Very helpful indeed, I never thought about moving the stuff around. Your input has got me ol' thinkcap on overload ..
One thing that drew me towards Sherline, dispite the price, was like you said, they supply a lot of add-ons.
Thanks for the info,
Steve

[Murray Kish]

Hi Steve. Good luck with your choice. It's not an easy decision as I don't think there is a perfect solution. It's really about compromises and what fits best to what you want to do with it.

My original plan involved buying the Chinese built stuff, and then setting it up in my garage. This would have been fine for general use, but not really ideal for the times when I'm sitting at my hobby-bench. As I thought about it more and more, I just came to the conclusion that it was more important for me to be able to use it right at my hobby bench. If I had a bigger hobby area, perhaps it would have been OK to just have a table setup close to the bench with the equipment on it. Unfortunately, I don't really have that luxury, so thus the need to have something I could setup/take-down fairly easily.

Now that I have the smaller Sherline equipment, I have to admit that the likelihood of me needing/wanting the extra size/capacity of the larger machines will be pretty remote. One thing I was looking forward to though, was having the larger mill, and the ability to use it as a drill press. Instead, I found a small drill press at a local store on sale for $60. Now this, I use for more general household type stuff, so I have it on the bench in my garage. It's very handy, and I've even used it already on some basic model building projects....

Another thing that I liked about Sherline.... If you ever do want to go with a CNC setup, it's pretty much as easy as ordering the 'package' to add on to your mill. 'Easy' might be the wrong word, but what I mean is that the parts/package/items are all setup up and you basically order the package and you get pretty much everything you need. This is an example of the depth of the range of products that Sherline has. I really don't know if Taig has this type of option or not (from the manufacturer)? I'm sure anything can be done by someone with enough resources, knowledge, and time, but unfortunately I don't have much of any of those. For a guy like me, the way Sherline pre-packages things is ideal (and worth a few dollars).

Enjoy the search. If anything, I would highly recommend finding someplace that you can physically look at the products. You really get a much better feel and perception of the product by turning the dials and 'wiggling' things to see how tightly everything is manufactured. This was very hard for me to do, as no place close to me actually stocked anything like this...


Good luck

Murray

[mikemechanic]

Originally Posted by cyberkid

Quick Q, if you mind me asking, what sort of things are you selling?
Thanks again,
Steve

No problem Steve, here is a selection of things that I've made so far.
FXX details (jacks, extinguishers, fuel break, etc)


FXX shock set.


Tuner style mufflers.

Originally Posted by Murray Kish

I wanted something that was 'popular' in the machining community. Not because I wanted to be cool

I always thought that you were cool Murray and that was before the lathe

Mike

[Murray Kish]

Originally Posted by mikemechanic

I always thought that you were cool Murray and that was before the lathe

Mike

Well, we do have the same Renault F1 shirt.... Thats something .....


Also.... I sense a Machining WIP re: some of that awesome stuff you've shown us...... Let the Skoolin begin!!!

Murray

[cyberkid]

Originally Posted by Murray Kish

Enjoy the search. If anything, I would highly recommend finding someplace that you can physically look at the products. You really get a much better feel and perception of the product by turning the dials and 'wiggling' things to see how tightly everything is manufactured. This was very hard for me to do, as no place close to me actually stocked anything like this...


Good luck

Murray

That would be near impossible... I've been searching the internet, asking around... but it seems that no one here sells table top lathes that aren't of Chinese orient even if I do find table top lathes, they're set up for wood work and don't have many, if not any, add-ons. So, for the time being all I can do is read about what others think about various machines.

Thanks Mike and Murray for the detailed replies.
Steve

[Murray Kish]

Originally Posted by cyberkid

That would be near impossible... I've been searching the internet, asking around... but it seems that no one here sells table top lathes that aren't of Chinese orient even if I do find table top lathes, they're set up for wood work and don't have many, if not any, add-ons. So, for the time being all I can do is read about what others think about various machines.
Steve

That pretty much sums up my experience exactly. At least you have access to some of the Chinese made stuff. That's a start.

Check out the thread with all of the links to the YouTube videos. That's another way to get some sort of feel for the machines.

For a good page on Taig stuff, check out http://www.cartertools.com/

Murray

[cyberkid]

Originally Posted by Murray Kish

Check out the thread with all of the links to the YouTube videos. That's another way to get some sort of feel for the machines.
Murray

I have, and couldn't help drooling all over myself ..