fram

jimmy4x4 · 03-02-2005, 10:23 AM

whats the big problem with their oil filters?

Chriznat20@msn.com · 03-02-2005, 11:47 AM

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

demotim00 · 07-01-2005, 12:15 PM

Fram oil and air filters are by far the best damn filters I have ran across, and believe in 100% and refuse to use anything else, and I have owned over 25 different vehicles and have tried just about every brand of filters on the market.

blazee · 07-01-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demotim00

Fram oil and air filters are by far the best damn filters I have ran across, and believe in 100% and refuse to use anything else, and I have owned over 25 different vehicles and have tried just about every brand of filters on the market.

I hope that you are joking. Fram is the cheapest piece of shit that you can buy. All the internal parts of FRAM filters are made of cardboard, all other filter companies use metal. FRAM has a pathetic anti-drainback valve, the valve doesn't work and allows the oil to drain out of the top of the motor when you shut it off. This means that everytime you start your engine while using a FRAM, it dry starts. The dry start causes excessive engine wear and premature failure, this is also why engines using fram make alot noise when they are first started. If you want a good filter get a NAPA GOLD, WIX, or AC Delco.

demotim00 · 07-01-2005, 05:09 PM

No, I am not joking. As far as excessive engine wear, increased noise when started, and dry goes, I have never had a vehicle dry start with Fram Products, and have never had increased noise. However I have had greater performance every time over any other brand. When I do my oil changes, I now use nothing except Valvoline Max-Life 10w30 oil with a Fram oil filter, and same with air filters, nothing except Fram. Now of course everyone has their own opinions, but mine is over most common brands that people put in their vehicle, Fram is the best. However everyone has their own opinion on their vehicles, and theres no reason to argue w/ someone over the type of products they use.

blazee · 07-01-2005, 06:39 PM

You are right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you can do what ever you want to your engine. (good or bad).

However, you have posted some erroneous information and I want to make it clear to anyone reading this that FRAM has been proven to be a poor choice time and time again. It is not a mere opinion that Fram filters are poorly designed and constructed of cheap materials, it is a fact. It is also a fact that Fram filters cause excessive wear at start-up and lead to premature engine failure.

http://oilfilterstudy.com/
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

demotim00 · 07-01-2005, 07:22 PM

You have only provided 2 sources of people saying or showing with anything that they are a poor choice. In my opinion 2 sources that say they're a bad choice is far from being proven. If 2 people saying something is bad equals a fact, than alot of things would be a fact, including that Quik Trips and Casey's fuel causes engine failure and that Huck's Fuel increases mpg and performance (because I know several shops that have had multiple vehicles with bad fuel from QT's or Casey's) however that doesnt mean its a proven fact. So saying its a fact and not opinion that Fram filters are bad and cause premature engine failure is just plain wrong. Hell for that fact I have talked to several people that say all GM products, especially Blazers and Jimmy's are nothing but crap and shouldnt have ever been made, however thats there opinion. Several people saying or even so called testing the products isnt a fact.

blazee · 07-01-2005, 07:34 PM

I only posted two links, two more links have already been posted. If you don't believe them cut open a fram, it is a fact that it is made of cardboard. If you don't believe Frams cause dry starts go to the blazer forum and see how many people have had their noisy startup problems fixed by changing to a different brand. Better yet start a thread over there and have people tell you their experiences. Not only is it a fact, but it is also common knowledge that dry starts cause excessive engine wear. It is also a fact and common knowledge that excessive engine wear leads to premature failure. What part are you not understanding? what part of that is not a fact?

demotim00 · 07-01-2005, 07:47 PM

Yes I agree fully that it is a proven fact that dry starts will cause excessive engine wear and will lead in to engine failure. What I am not considering a fact is that Fram will cause dry starts. I could be wrong however, isnt true that if a Fram oil filter causes dry starts that it would cause it in all of the vehicles, just not a handful of them. I find it hard to believe that it will cause dry starts in all Blazers and Jimmy's or most of them, but yet out of the 85 and 89 Blazers I owned along with the 94 Jimmy I own now, along other 20+ vehicles I have seen fram in, havent ever caused a dry start not even once in all of them.

blazee · 07-02-2005, 12:45 PM

It isn't restricted to only a few, they cause everyone problems. I believe what has happened in your case, is that you have become used to the sound of lifters tapping and valves rattling at startup. With a quality filter, you will hear no noise at startup. There is no way that you can use Fram as much as you have without experiencing problems.

Here is the last guy that had problems with fram in the blazer forum, read page 3 too, he had no more problems after switching:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=403052&page=2&pp=40&highlight=fra m

Do a search for fram on this site, there are thousands of posts here about it. These guys are obsessed with oil and extremely knowledgeable. You will see hundreds of opinions here, based on their knowledge. This site is the biggest collection of oil related info on the net:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?

Here's one that I found rather quickly:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002608#000000

I should also add that Penzoil and Quaker State are also Fram filters.

cmoore992002 · 07-03-2005, 07:36 AM

I used to use Fram Filters. On two oil changes on an old and since sold Taurus wagon the filter was completely dry. The first time it happened I thought how odd. The second time it happened I swore off Fram. MHO.

demotim00 · 07-03-2005, 07:52 AM

I am not going to say that Fram filters havent caused anyone a problem, and everyone is entitled to use what they want on their vehicles. I myself though have never had a problem with their filters. As far as the comment that I must have had problems and have just gotten use to noisy valves and lifters tapping at start up, that is completely wrong. My vehicle starts up like a brand new vehicle and does not have a noisy start up at all. If anyone is in doubt of that, please feel free to email me, and I will give you my address, and you are more than welcome to come by my house, and listen to it start up and run, and you will see that I do not have a noisy start up. Thats all I have to say.

herkyhawki · 07-06-2005, 08:29 AM

There are alot of wanna-be's spouting the same anti Fram message. What they call "cardboard" is a heavy fibrous material that forms the end caps and seals the ends of the filter element. This is similar material to many of the gaskets in your engine, so if it is really a problem, you better rebuild your whole engine and don't use any "cardboard" gaskets. Good Luck with that. The end caps of all filters are glued to the ends of the filter media. The media most commonly used is paper. Paper glued to "cardboard" can make a better seal as the glue can penetrate the cardboard. Paper glued to metal is more prone failure and creating a bypass leak. If you don't want to use Fram, that's fine with me, but don't go out bashing them just because some other internet idiot puts up a website to promote his own agenda.

blazee · 07-06-2005, 08:48 AM

You may want to edit your post....your ignorance is showing.

BlazerLT · 07-06-2005, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herkyhawki

There are alot of wanna-be's spouting the same anti Fram message. What they call "cardboard" is a heavy fibrous material that forms the end caps and seals the ends of the filter element. This is similar material to many of the gaskets in your engine, so if it is really a problem, you better rebuild your whole engine and don't use any "cardboard" gaskets. Good Luck with that. The end caps of all filters are glued to the ends of the filter media. The media most commonly used is paper. Paper glued to "cardboard" can make a better seal as the glue can penetrate the cardboard. Paper glued to metal is more prone failure and creating a bypass leak. If you don't want to use Fram, that's fine with me, but don't go out bashing them just because some other internet idiot puts up a website to promote his own agenda.

Good god, would you just listen to what you are talking about!!!

Heavy "fibrous" material IS cardboard!

This is what a proper oil filter is supposed to look like.

And this is a Fram oil filter which is the biggest piece of shit filter in the world.

So you really think that there is nothing wrong with a Fram oil filter right? Well, YOU ARE WRONG.

You obviously haven't heard them being deemed as the "orange can of doom" do you?

You obviously haven't heard of the knocking dry startups they cause on most GM vehicles seeing their cardboard endcaps can't seal against the rubber Anti-drainback valve seeing the cardboard warps with heat and no seal can be made.

You obviously don't see that they have the worse flow, the worse filtration and the worst contaminant capacity of any filter on the market bar none. The flow is so bad that there is often over a 20psi drop in oil pressure after the filter seeing is is so horribly restrictive.

That is a fram failure. Doesn't look pretty does it...........

So before you think Fram is some sort of fine name brand, you are right, the NAME is fine, the PRODUCT is shit.

I have done 100s of hours of research on this filter and others and until you do the same, stop spouting your ignorant and completely OPINION based crap here.

You don't know a thing about what you are talking about and it shows.

OMG, it is Fram, they are a good name because they advertise on NASCAR! That means they have to be good.

Be different, don't be the brainwashed fool to back a POS junk product.

Better to be one in a million and knowledgeable, than one OF a million and unknowing.

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