Rear engine mount 91 civic

[ukrkoz]

i had this posted before and have to ask again
91 civic lx, sedan, 1.5
rear engine mount
does anyone know any REASONABLE ways of removing the mount bolt that is covered by undercarriage and flanges on the sides?
as i am no rookie mechanic, and, besides being pissed beyond limits with iffing dumm idea of sticking that bolt where they stuck it, i can't find any way of getting to it.
i was "advised" to lower crossmember, except that that crossmember has power steering, brake tubes, and control arms attached to it, so no lowering it. it almost looks like THE CAR has to be lifted off that crossmember, and try that with ramps.
we just did timing belt on my son's 95 civic, and what a difference that one is. they changed entire engine layout to make it easier and more accessible. this one - damn competition in how to make it all crammed, tangled, and every bolt covered with tubes hoses, wires, or just hidden elsewhere.

[civic&240]

i just used 3/8 drive and random ends and ext. done it a few times,, dont know how tight ur bolts are or that might not work,, it is a big pain in the ass!!

[Tony]

Lower the crossmember! It will lower. You may have to get inside the car and remove the bolt on the u-joint on the steering column to get the room you need, but it will lower. I know the steering rack is bolted to the crossmember and you have power steering lines and all that fun stuff on it, but if you remove the bolt on the u-joint on the steering column, you should be able to lower it down just enough to clear the firewall and get a hold of the bolts.

Yes the use of extensions and a swivel will still be needed, but they do no good if there isn't enough room above the bolt to get there.

The 92-95 Civic's did have a better layout, and they did have a much better crossmember, especially for replacing a steering rack. They were the only years that the rack wasn't trapped in the crossmember and they added a small space between the crossmember and frame on the front bolts.

[ukrkoz]

there are 2 heater core hoses and a bracket on the firewall right above that bolt. getting to it from the above is out of question w-out removing all that.
not in my plans.
i think, i solved the puzzle though, tony. car was ON THE RAMPS, not on the stands. considering that control arms are attached to the crossmember, crossmember is pressed UP by them with car weight born on tires.
i'll give it a shot this saturday with car body on STANDS, hence the corssmeber weight and struts should press crossmember down.
i am really curious, how in the world they had it all put together in a factory in time efficient manner. no wonder they changed layout.
btw, haynes mentions this mount as optional on some models. of course, haynes being haynes...i sort of got sports interest on this project. i am not used to things not going my way on my cars.
she's feisty! she does not like to be worked on. likes to drive, that's it.

[Tony]

The rear mount isn't optional, the front mount is though. You have to have one of the two atleast to prevent the engine and transmission from twisting as much. The best mount to stiffen up would be the front or rear, the sides don't make as much of an impact as they do, not on a transverse mounted engine.

Sorry, I thought you would have figured out to put the body on jack stands, which they should have been anyway because ramps suck. Never work under a car like that, with it on ramps, always use jack stands. Once you have the body on stands, use your jack to put some pressure on the crossmember and proceed to loosen the bolts, you will be able to remove it your mount then.

From the factory I'm sure they installed the mount on the crossmember and then bolted the crossmember up, hence the reason to lower the crossmember to remove it.

[ukrkoz]

Originally Posted by Tony

From the factory I'm sure they installed the mount on the crossmember and then bolted the crossmember up, hence the reason to lower the crossmember to remove it.

thery must have lowered body on the powertrain and suspension.

i shall keep saying - designers, every time they finish a car and it goes into the 1st run, then must do disassemble/re-assemble of what they have designed, using commonly available tools only. that should fix their brains right away and the right way.

what's wrong with ramps? not to jinx it, i have years of experience using them. including my silverado. i have solid steel ones.

[Tony]

Too many things can go wrong with ramps, even steel ones. I trust my jack stands over ramps any day. Not to mention you don't run into issues like you just had because the jack stand should always be on the body anyway, not the suspension.

I have seen too many accidents with ramps with either the car coming off of them, or the ramps collapsing. I just don't trust them. I can jack the car up and get a stand under it quicker than drive a car on a ramp anyway.

Again on the motor mount, the installed the mount on the crossmember, bolted the crossmember to the car and then installed the engine. If the crossmember was a full crossmember like GM likes to use, then yes, they installed the engine/transmission on the crossmember and then lowered the car onto the crossmember. Worked on plenty of different cars to know how they ended up doing things at the factory.

[ukrkoz]

i'll give it a shot saturday. my 1st step will be to losen up crossmember bolts and see if it starts lowering itself. i have no problems undoing the rest of the bolts on that mount. will need to buy a 17mm ratcheting box wrench, otherwise, i had to use crescent wrench for the center bolt. my kit has everything up to 15mm, then jumps to 19mm. them bastards.
it'll work, i have good feeling about this.

[Tony]

It will work. I had to remove the mount when I did my B18 swap and that is what I had to do to it.

[ukrkoz]

well, it's finally done. i almost gave up again.
crossmember can be lowered only yey much. then steering wheel joint holds it in place, and i'll be darned if i start messing with that.
passenger side can be lowered more, but at some point that's it.
space available is just enough to slide fingers to the mount and touch bolt well. none of the wrenches i have work due to sharp bend in the underbody, covering bolt.
i even started looking for a ratcheting wrench with pivoting handle, as it had to be at about 75 degrees to get to that bolt. of course, no one in the area has it.
fortunately, my older son came over for oil change.
it took coordinated effort of him under and me in the engine compartment, to slide flexdrive with 14mm socket on it on top of that bolt. then i had 3 extensions connected to able to put wrench on it and torque it open, while he was securing socket on the bolt head.
we found that there's a 3/4 by 3/4 opening between some 2 tubes coming out of the firewall, that extensions can be fitted through to do the job. otherwise, any angle in them will slip socket off the bolt. fortunately, bolt was already loose some.
that engine mount can NOT be removed from where it is. i had to undo 3 17mm head bolts holding mount bracket to the transmission, to be able to remove that engine mount.
if you decide to do this job, DO NOT tighten any bolts until you have them all settled and engaged in the right holes. because of the crossmember drop down, mount ends crooked, and it takes some finesse to get all the bolts back in their according holes.
result is very pleasent, though. vibration is greatly reduced.

[Tony]

I said to remove the joint from the steering column from inside the car and you would of had all the clearance you needed and its not had to reinstall....mark it before you remove it. You made it a lot harder on yourself by not doing so.

[ukrkoz]

Originally Posted by Tony

I said to remove the joint from the steering column from inside the car and you would of had all the clearance you needed and its not had to reinstall....mark it before you remove it. You made it a lot harder on yourself by not doing so.

i know you did. i do not mess with steering. every time i tried, it's a trouble. not my forte.

[Tony]

Its a simple joint, mark the 2 pieces, remove, install with your marks lined up. Nothing on cars are complicated unless you make it so.

[ukrkoz]

Originally Posted by Tony

Its a simple joint, mark the 2 pieces, remove, install with your marks lined up. Nothing on cars are complicated unless you make it so.

sure. that's why i like them old cars. simple.
i have really bad taste for working on any steering components except tie rods and tierod ends. i guess, it is from my 1st experience with 96 le baron. even tech that was replacing rack-n-pinion on it quit because of this, as he just could not get that steering wheel right.
maybe it's because i am a very broad shouldered 6'5'', and crawling under the dash board was not quite desired on civic.
anyhow, it's done, over, and forgotten. i also replaced distributor yesterday, as she became finicky on hot starts. that, also, fixed source of oil leak - was o-ring.
next job - pull the head off, drop oil pan, replace rings and tierod bearings and clean c-chambers. she's not really taking oil or smoking, so valve stem seals should be ok. will do water pump and belt tensioner same time. and that will be it, drive till wheels fall off.
matter of fact, she's running on royal purple now, and level dropped on dipstick only about 1/4'' in 2800 miles, which is nothing for age, mileage, and that leaking o-ring.

[pbrizzle86]

tierod bearings?.... hrrrmm