71 Ram Air HO 455 Motor

[Bamadave]

I have a complete motor less cam and timing gears/chain. From Ram air carb to oil pan. What is this worth? I had all of the machine work done about 15yrs ago and wrapped and stored.

Thanks,

David

[MagicRat]

$50.
I'll send you cash right away...........








Seriously, it depends on the buyers needs,
if all the numbers check out and everything is machined properly:

$2500-$3500, to the right person, who needs one for their high dollar GTO ot T/A restoration. This engine would add that much value alone, on to the right car. However, there are not too many people in that situation.

For use just as a performance engine, $1500 - $2000......maybe more, if the buyer just loves those Ram Air heads. In reality, new aftermarket Pontiac heads are better than the old Ram Airs, but that name still means a lot to many people.

[Bamadave]

Wow! Ram Air HO for $3500. I have seen the carb alone sell on Ebay for over $1000. Realistically, I have new pistons, bearings, rings, gaskets, etc. With all of the machine work done, rotating assemble balanced and rapped up, ready to find a new owner.

I guess I'll leave it in storage another 15 years.

Thanks,

David

[MagicRat]

Well, then advertise on E bay, then.
It sounds as if you have the time to ask $7500 and wait for bids.

seriously, do you want to know if its worth more money parted out? Proably not, but as I said, it depends on the buyer.

I can get '69 Ram air heads for 900/pr, and a block for $1000. Throw in $2500 for the block, internals and machining and there you go, $4900 engine. Throw in $900 for extras, and you have a $5800 engine. Why isn't yours worth $5800?

Well, its the 15 year old mystery of how it was built and the quality of the machine work. Buyers will ask themselves (quite rightly) why you never used the engine, or sold it. The obvious suspicion is that there is something expensively wrong with it, so the price comes down.

Anyone who actually has to use this engine will allow for a discount for nasty surprises, like warped, cracked castings, bores out of spec etc, and your engine is worth only $3500 to someone on the net.



Seriously, you can get more $$ than I said, to the right person, and with some time . Good luck.

[Bamadave]

Well at one point in time I had a convertible 71 lemans that I was considering converting it into a GTO clone and time rocked on and just sold the convertible and never did anything with the motor. Backing up, as a youth my first car was a 69 GTO and over time I have owned numerous high powered Poncho cars with the best being a 70 Ram Air IV TA, yes one of the 77 with mine being a polar 4-speed so I’m somewhat versed in the torque monster of Pontiac performance. I had always thought the 71 HO motor was one of the best outside the SD due to its lower compression and being able the be somewhat useful based on the current fuel available and thought I would someday use it. Well times have changed and my performance goals have gone to the MkIV Supra and I’m in the process of building a 850RWHP TH400 street car and I’m blowing through the $$$ like there’s no tomorrow and I hit me that I could move the old poncho motor on and put the cash towards a built head and possibly attempt the go for the stock bottom end record of 1000RWHP. Don’t get me wrong the head won’t get me there but it and a couple of other changes would get me in that direction, thus the enquiry about parting my old motor. Realistically I’ll more than likely just hold on to it as its not eating anything and who knows one day I may decide to do something constructive with her.

Thanks for your input but I need to stop rambling and move one to something else.

Take care!!!!!


David

[MrPbody]

At the risk of starting more debate, there is no such thing as a '71 Ram Air ANYTHING... An HO is an HO, not a Ram Air. The last "Ram Air" engines were in '70. There was never a "Ram Air 455".
We had this discussion a few days ago on a Pontiac site, where someone asked what years and what was the difference between Ram Air and non-Ram Air engines. Don't confuse open scoops and a sticker saying "Ram Air" on the hood with having a "Ram Air" engine.
The Ram Air engines were all at least 10.5:1 compression. All were 400 CID. The 455 HO has 8:1 (except the '70 455 HO, a "d-port" engine with 10.25:1). ALL the '71 and '72 455 HOs were "round port. HO was discontinued in '73, in favor of SD (Super Duty, an entirely DIFFERENT animal). The name "455 HO" appeared again in '76, ever so briefly, and was a sham. A 400 T/A could outrun a 455 in '76...

That being said, a complete 455 HO with a GTO code is quite valuable. You can sell it on the Pontiac sites or E-Bay, with success. A Firebird code is still not worthless, but GTO is in higher demand.
NOTE: If it has had port work or other alterations from "stock", it's value will be lower. Given current technology and parts available, ALL the factory heads are pretty much obsolete, making them more popular among the restoration crowd than the racer crowd. Look there for your best selling chances.

The carb should be a 7041271,2 or 3, depending on which car and transmission. Does it still have the heat crossover under the intake? Exhaust manifolds still there? Distributor?

E-mail me a pic if you wish. I may be able to move it for you. cvms@cstone.net

Jim

[Bamadave]

First of a you are incorrect as there was a Ram Air HO 455 in fact I’m looking at Pete McCathey book “Pontiac Musclecar Performance” and it details just that. My old Ram Air IV TA was listed with its specific vin number as well. I have a YE block which is specific to the Auto GTO if that year. And yes I have the carb and it’s a 7041270 that is according to the book I’m looking at is specific to the Ram Air version. I do have the original points distributor, which I believe will be very rare as most were discarded when most owners back then updated them with pointless versions. I do have the (483674) intake, crossover and exhaust manifolds. And no the heads weren’t ported. I also have a set of Doug Thorley round exhaust port headers that were new, meaning never installed for a GTO for that year and a set of D-Port 64 heads, which were the 70 360HP 455 versions and if I’m not mistaken were the first and only closed chamber D-Port 455 heads. I believe they should be somewhat rare as well.

At one point in time I was a very serous Poncho fan and though I was somewhat knowledgeable, but hew knows I may be mistaken.

Thanks for your input regardless!!!

David

[MrPbody]

David,
As an active participant in the modern "Pontiac world", I can assure you, no Pontiac literature called the HOs "Ram Air". Again, open scoops and a pan does not necessarily mean a "Ram Air" engine. Many '70-'72 Firebird Formulas had open scoops. Only the '70 models had Ram Air engines.
The "64" cylinder head came on the '70 455 HO engine, rated at 370 HP. The 360 version came with "15s". While a bit on the rare side, the 64s are in demand only among the old-school Pontiac guys and restoration people.
There was a time when the 64s were considered the hot lick for a 400, providing about 9.5:1 compression. We've learned a lot since then, and no longer use them. A pair of 6X-4s, milled .050", and an upgraded exhaust valve, will make more power than a pair of 64s.
The last "closed chamber" Pontiac was in '67, and the casting was "670". The chamber was "opened" in '68 to reduce emmissions, and it worked. You won't see an A.I.R. pump on a Pontiac until the late '70s, when standards REALLY tightened up.
With all due respect to Pete McCarthy, his books are not "blessed" by Pontiac, and you will find a ton of "vernacular" and shade-tree nicknames throughout. I have a couple of copies. I still use them for certain references. Same with the old HO books.
The most current book avilable doesn't go through all the specifics of what was called what, but it DOES give you a clear vision of what we're doing today in Pontiacs. That book is Jim Hand's "How to Build Max-performance Pontiac V8s" by SA Designs. Good stuff...
My only purpose here is to dispel myths. I would entertain any Pontiac literature that refered to them as "Ram Air", and would change my point of view accordingly.

[Bamadave]

Well I see I’m not as well informed. Thanks for the info! I guess I need to rephrase my listing of the motor to say and I do know this for a fact. The 71 HO 455 motor that I have came out of a GTO equipped with Ram Air. Regardless I should be somewhat rare.

Again thanks for clarifying the information.

David

[MrPbody]

Dave,
You're absolutely welcome. Thank YOU for not coppin' an attitude. You should have been here a few months ago, when a girl INSISTED her '68 Tempest had a "BOP 350" and PowerGlide. Several lined up with her to argue against me, and a couple other guys. Well, there's no such thing as a "BOP 350", and Pontiac only used the PG on 6s.... Well, she did some research and came back admitting it was indeed a SuperTurbine 300 transmisison, and that she couldn't find any information on a ""BOP 350". I give her credit for stepping up. She never came back, though...
I don't post on these boards to show off or to tell others they're wrong. I do it simply to propegate accurate information. Unless I qualify a statement as an opinion (which I certainly have some!), you can take it to the bank.
Take care, and keep coming back.

Jim

Who made the rules to say a RAM AIR engine has to be of high compression nature?

Now Mr P, I doi so see what your trying to get at, a quick look in my trusty AL Miller engine code book shows 1970 YZ code engine with #12 heads as the last listed RAM AIR engine, but RAM AIR is a thing , you have ram air on your GTO, not just a ram air engine.

You of all people know that all D ports flow within 5-10 cfm of each other, from #4C to #13 it's the compresion that made the HP, and as both you and I know all 400 are built just about the same, aside from some random 4 bolt mains and intakes.

1971 and 72 had some of the best working RAM AIR setups ever, with 1972 being the best year from moving air in and around the engine.

I see a 1971 HO GTO with number 197 and 191 heads, tho it's only 8.4 Comp, and 335HP it's still a ram aired engine, it seems to me when they do say when it's a RAM AIR engine you see what Gen.

Your talking about another gray area in Pontiac history, don't make the rules just because it's not written.

Haveing a ram air setup is a ram air set up.

Are you saying that if you have a 1970 RAM AIR III engine and a 1972 RAM AIR GTO that you don't really have a ram air engine on the 72 GTO?

It should be that the 1972 has a ram air 400 or a ram air GTO, it's written on the hood, so it is a ram air engine, not a ram air 1 to 5, but just a ram air engine.

Then we get into the HO engines, ok it's a HO, is that less then a RAM AIR? how can we tell, it's still has ram air on the hood!

Dude you have a HO engine with a RAM AIR setup, so you could say "I have a RAM AIR HO engine " Y

ou can't say you have a RAM AIR 1 2 or 3 4 or 5.

But you car is ram air and High Output.

I need a drink so this makes more sense.