Windstar 96 - High NOx Emissions - Page 3

DRW1000 · 09-19-2005, 09:50 AM

171/174 indicate lean readings. My guess is still an intake leak somewhere. Since these two codes indicate each bank reading lean it is most likely a leak in the plenum or somewhere common to both banks.

I would still look for a leak or a hose loose somewhere.

meta_nerd · 09-19-2005, 02:04 PM

Is there anyway that the vacuum may not be regulating quick enough? What would make it do this. Because it really is only bad when you first exit the freeway, then it just idles a bit rough and sometimes almost completely seems gone after about 20 seconds. Now that I think about it, about 2 months ago we had our Idler Pulley cease and our belt ripped off and might have torn something up. I havn't seen any damage but I will give it another look when my wife gets home this-evening. Anythng specific that I may want to check on that left side of the engine.

I also saw in a post that someone had vacuum problems when their power-steering vacuum (valve?) wasnt working properly. I couldn't find anything on the power steering pump, is there supposed to be some kind of vacuum line there?

meta_nerd · 09-19-2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRW1000

171/174 indicate lean readings. My guess is still an intake leak somewhere. Since these two codes indicate each bank reading lean it is most likely a leak in the plenum or somewhere common to both banks.

I would still look for a leak or a hose loose somewhere.

OK, I will look it over very thouroughly this evening. Thanks.

(also, what is the plenum? Is it the upper intake manifold?)

DRW1000 · 09-19-2005, 05:37 PM

Yes- the upper intake.

wiswind · 09-19-2005, 10:32 PM

As far as catalyst mode not set.....it takes a certain number of cycles of the "upstream" oxygen sensors to set them......and then the slower switching sensors after the catalytic converters will set.....those are the "downstream" sensors. In other words....those are the last sensors to set up after your codes have been cleared.......which requires the PCM to "relearn" all the data.
In other words....if you have had the codes reset within the past week or so (as in removing a battery cable).....the PCM has to relearn the data.

There is no connection between the vaccum and the power steering....at least not on my '96.

meta_nerd · 09-22-2005, 05:16 PM

I can't find any visible cracks or hoses off. I don't seem to have much vac on the PCV, how much vac should there be, I don't even feel it when I place my fingers over the end of the tube.

Now the engine definately sounds like it is misfireing at idle and low speeds (hard to tell at the high speeds). I really think that when I am on a slope it is much worse. If I go up a driveway or a big hill slowly the car just sounds like it is going to stall. I had it stall once going out of the driveway, but on downhills I don't notice it (maybe because the engine pressure).

I think I will take the upper intake off again and see if something is clogging the EGR ports again. This fixed the problem for about a day. With it off I can maybe get a better view of the vac lines back there.

I am lost....

Chris

meta_nerd · 09-23-2005, 04:03 AM

Also when the car is cold, there is basically no evident problem. As it warms up it gets worse and worse.

meta_nerd · 09-25-2005, 12:06 AM

OK, got the manifold off today and got a good look back behind at all the hoses. The PCV boot (not sure of the name) was melted through both sides. I will replace it tomorrow. I hope this is it....

Thanks for all your help so far guys...

This site somehow gives me confidence to do this stuff my self, and I really appriciate it.

Chris Reid

DRW1000 · 09-25-2005, 11:13 AM

That would be a spot where air could enter the intake system and it would affect both banks. Good catch.
It can also explain a lot of the symptoms you noticed such as rough low idle. Also when cold the PCM increases the Air/fuel ratio - like a choke would - and perhaps this is why the problem doens't occur at cold.

Keep plugging away.

Yes this site is great. I am glad it gives you confidence. Some here love to help. Especially someone who is willing to go and get their hands dirty. Collectively we have experienced almost all the issues possible. I hope you decide to become a regular after your problem is fixed.

meta_nerd · 09-25-2005, 02:15 PM

I went to the autoparts store and they said they don't have anything that has a bend in it. They told me to just use a fuel line. Is this going to be OK? It seems that this part I took off is specially made. I am pretty sure I can get to it without too much work, so I will put everything back together and worry about it later. Please let me know your thoughts....

Chris

DRW1000 · 09-25-2005, 06:38 PM

I would think that a snug fitting fuel line installed withput a kink would be fine.

Just my opinion however.

meta_nerd · 09-27-2005, 01:40 PM

Put everything back together and I am still getting the same symptoms.
when cold it is ok.
once the temp reaches normal driving temp, there is a misfire in cylinder 2.

I did reset the sensors by first using the OBD meter. Then I tried to just unhook the battery for a few minutes. I was hoping the PCM would reset and everything would be good. But as mentioned above, it is still acting up. I will get an OBD reading when my wife gets home tonight.

Last I checked I was getting errors:
misfire in cyl 2.
too lean in bank 1..?(I think)
manufacture sensor ..(something...???) I will get exact messages tonight.

I am wondering if it could be something with the coil/distributor?

Also maybe the bad running before, messed up the plug in cyl2. I believe that is the center back plug, I will try to get a look at it.

Any more Ideas.

Chris

gbic1 · 09-27-2005, 09:22 PM

Did you try driving it with egr hose unplugged?

wiswind · 09-28-2005, 12:42 AM

Cylinder #2 is the center cylinder on the back side of the engine. For the PCV elbow at the top of the upper intake manifold.....I ended up using a elbow that I selected from the "Help" brand of miscelanious items at Autozone. I did read of someone having a electrical connection issue to one of the fuel injectors. The way that the injectors work.....1 side is always "hot".....and the PCM provides the path to ground.....to open the injector. Of course.....the path to ground is momentary.....a pulse for each "squirt".
Would be a real tough problem to verify.....and was for the pro's.

I had a problem with one injector causing misfire.....that was some crud over the spray end of the injector. I did NOT have any "lean" codes however. Took me quite a while.....and lots of parts to finally track it down to the injector. And all it needed was a cleaning. But I was aware of....and looking into the problem before it was serious enough to light the CEL. Once the CEL was lit.....The only code was the misfire on Cylinder #2......as I had already replaced / cleaned all the things that one would replace or clean.......it was a simple find from there.

As stated....a vaccum leak is the most likely cause for a lean code. But it would not likely cause a misfire on 1 cylinder.....unless there is a leak right next to that cylinder.

meta_nerd · 09-28-2005, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbic1

Did you try driving it with egr hose unplugged?

Yes, it ran worse. It was about a week ago so I don't remember exactly what happened. I do know that I plugged the vac line going to it with a screw and drove to the gas station where I thought that the car was running better with the hose on. So I put it back.

I have also hooked up a vacuum to the EGR while at idle and I can basically stop the engine when doing so. I figure the valve is working Correctly, or am I wrong?

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