"Diff"ering opinions on whether there are new lockers for the Xterra....

[ScottG]

Originally posted by Kerensky97


At GOX the Eaton rep gave us tenative schedules and prices.
The price was about $1000-1500 dollars for:

"...Complete set of Front & Rear Axle Shafts......."

I wonder if they are changing to 31 spline axle shafts. There is no other reason to change the axle shafts, right?????

I'm excited about the Eaton lockers, but if they were changing to a lower spline count to make them fit I would be inclined to stick with ARB. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think installing lockers normally requires changing the axle shafts.

[OffroadX]

Just picking nits, but the leather package isn't an option, it's an accessory. Big difference in mindset. When it becomes an option, Nissan will have committed a sin.

Brent

[warmonger]

I know what you mean. The only thing that bothers me is that the thought was there. They thought enough to give the cushy ride folks leather but not enough to give us off-roaders front and rear tow hooks, a FAR cheaper option. Kind of tells me what direction it is heading.

Originally posted by OffroadX
Just picking nits, but the leather package isn't an option, it's an accessory. Big difference in mindset. When it becomes an option, Nissan will have committed a sin.

Brent

[Kerensky97]

Originally posted by Stormy
I'm still unclear on this. Is the Eaton going to replace the rear Diff, or is an open diff required?

It's a replacement so LSD's and open diffs can use it, but intallation will have more steps due to moving the ring gear from the old carrier to the locker.
Here's a pic: (click on it to go to Eaton's Site to see how it works)

Originally posted by Scott G
I wonder if they are changing to 31 spline axle shafts. There is no other reason to change the axle shafts, right?????

I'm excited about the Eaton lockers, but if they were changing to a lower spline count to make them fit I would be inclined to stick with ARB. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think installing lockers normally requires changing the axle shafts.

All I remeber is that the reason the axle shafts were included is because the locker wouldn't work with the stock axles.
Unfortuneately that means you HAVE to buy the axles with the Locker. But on the plus side its good to upgrade to heavy-duty axles when going to a locker because of the extra demands placed on the axles.

[warmonger]

Dustin,

Unless it changes the actual diameter or the tensile strength of the axle, it is merely a reduction. The factory axles are already heavy duty with 33 splines. It sounds to me like they are adapting the housing to fit as many vehicles as possible by forcing an axle change. At 31 splines it fits the majority of the older Nissan apps. The really old stuff (29 spline) and the really new stuff (33 spline) will have to be adapted so they don't have to make three different chunks. But depending on what happens with the OEM unit, that could very well change. I find it hard to believe the factory is going to reduce axle strength to fit one in. Usually the vendor makes the chunk to fit the product, not the other way around.

[ScottG]

Originally posted by Kerensky97


All I remeber is that the reason the axle shafts were included is because the locker wouldn't work with the stock axles.
Unfortuneately that means you HAVE to buy the axles with the Locker. But on the plus side its good to upgrade to heavy-duty axles when going to a locker because of the extra demands placed on the axles.

Yep, I had to upgrade the axles on my AMC 20 Jeep axle when installing a Detroit locker because the 2 piece stock axles were to weak. (I broke one before I even got the locker).

However, I thought our 33 spline Xterra axles were pretty heavy duty from the factory and wouldn't need to be changed. I haven't heard any of the guys installing ARB lockers mention anything about changing the axles. If you still have contact with the Eaton rep, you might want to ask him about the spline count. I would like to know if they are upgrading to better axles, or just trying to make a locker that will fit more vehicles.

Thanks for all of the information you have already provided.

[Goliath the X]

Originally posted by pseacraft:
[QB]I asked ProwerTrax about the Lock-Right and made sure they knew I had a 2X open diff an dhere is their reply. I hope it's sooner than later.


"Eric,

We offer the Lock-Right for the H233B differentials, but only for the 31
spline which is in the V6 Hardbody. The Xterra has 33 spline axles. We are
designing a No-Slip Traction System for the Xterra, but it will not be
available until later this year hopefully.

Thanks,

Powertrax"[/QB]

A little good news. The no-slip should have better on road characteristics than the lock-right.

[warmonger]

Goliath,

Just so you know, the no-slip is the weaker of the two PowerTrax units. It probably won't be an issue in a stock Xterra since the engine is so weak to begin with, but in the SC or a modified X, it may have issues. No guarantees, but I know of several Jeepers who used them, broke them and replaced them with the LockRight set up because of it. But that is good news for the stock 170 crowd. Don't forget that it does require an open diff, which means you will be replacing the carrier to put it in. Finding an open carrier for an H233B won't be easy unless you buy it new. There aren't too many X's running around with V6s and open diffs, same with Frontiers. Most of those with open diffs are I-4s and they use the C200.

[Chris_McCracken]

To add on the E-lockers, the rep at GOX was quite clear that there would be significant cost savings due to the ease of install of the E-locker vs. ARB locker. They plan to include a "self-install" kit that the "enthusiast" would be able to install without paying a transmission shop.

[Xtoolbox]

FYI, the ProwerTrax No-Slip being tested/developed for the H233B will work with LSD equipped X’s from what I have been told/seen.

I hope the Eaton E-locker for the X comes out this year but its still going to be more expensive/harder to install then the PowerTrax No-slip that will likely ship first this year IMO.

[Chris_McCracken]

Has anyone actually talked to Calmini armed with the facts, or is most of this pure speculation?

[Goliath the X]

Originally posted by warmonger
Goliath,

Just so you know, the no-slip is the weaker of the two PowerTrax units. It probably won't be an issue in a stock Xterra since the engine is so weak to begin with, but in the SC or a modified X, it may have issues. No guarantees, but I know of several Jeepers who used them, broke them and replaced them with the LockRight set up because of it. But that is good news for the stock 170 crowd. Don't forget that it does require an open diff, which means you will be replacing the carrier to put it in. Finding an open carrier for an H233B won't be easy unless you buy it new. There aren't too many X's running around with V6s and open diffs, same with Frontiers. Most of those with open diffs are I-4s and they use the C200.

Thanks for the info War. I'm not looking to pull more ponies out of the engine so I'm not too worried about nuking the no-slip. The powertrax lockers are easy on the pocket. I'm definetly more interested in the e-locker, especially if the e-locker and the no-slip hit the market around the same time. If XtoolBox is correct and the no-slip will work in the LSD atleast it is another option for us.

At this point it's all vaporware, so only time will tell.

[warmonger]

I just got off of a long discussion with Steve at CalMini and here is the gist of what I currently know. The Eaton locker more than likely will not be released until the end of 2002. At this point I don't know whether it will be 31 spline or not. The 31 spline is for the older H233B as I had said. So that more or less verifies my original assertion for the possibility of replacing the axles. I would be disappointed if it goes that route since the extra cost that is being passed on to the user can be solved by a simple die change in the machining process.

As for the PowerTrax Lock Right, CalMini is working on the LSD issue and Steve agrees with me that in the case of the Xterra/Frontier it would be crazy to make one for open diffs when maybe 20% of the trucks at best have open diffs. He is experimenting with the fit of one of the units now, but how long the testing will take and whether it will pan out or not remains to be seen. From what Steve told me, the LockRight H233B uses a single pin setup as opposed to others dual pin setup. This could (and I stress could, not guarantees) a possible weakness. It may not be a low hp problem, but the concern is when 32" or taller tires are factored in with rocks.

Steve also indicated he is working on getting Detroit Locker to modifiy their dies as well to make the Detroit available in 33 spline. The question is will they do it and how long will it take. The Detroit Locker is one tough mother humper and will take all the abuse that can be dished out. You will brake and axle or other misc parts before you break it. Once again, time is the issue. He can't say how long this will take so it's anybodies guess.

In the end, the Nissan increase in axle strength has put us at an odd end. If you want the other diffs, you can get them by switching to a 31 spline axle. It's not too tough, but by the time you are done you might as well put in an ARB. There are people working to resolve the issue, but it is a matter of how long you are willing to wait.

[FSRBIKER]

Thanks for the update, has Steve verified that non-LSD trucks have 31 spline axles? If not how is he trying to make it fit? I TOTALLY agree that Tractech(Detroit Locker) and Powertrax are sitting on their hands right now regarding making a simple change so they can offer their diffs to us...must be more to it then you, Steve or I can see.

[an1malch1n]

*Food for thought*

Just a possibility that the Eaton locker itself is wider, thus requiring less length to the axles.

It's Cheaper and easier to just send out new axles rather than having them ground down and resplined.

I seriously doubt that they would send out a weaker axle out than OEM specs.