Newbie's First Project

[packrat79]

Over the years I've thought about entering the world of automobile repair and restoration, and now I've finally got something to motivate me. My parents old '89 Honda Civic has reached the point where it's beyond economic repair, and unless I can personally restore it it's headed for the junkyard. Such a car might not seem like anything of value, but this one is of sentimental value to me since it once belonged to my grandmother, and took us on several memorable family vacations many years ago. The list of repairs it needs would make Santa Clause's Christmas list seem short by comparison - ball joints, tie rods, fuel tank, brake line, struts, non-essential things like seat upholstery, and much more. Perhaps the most major repairs are needed to the body itself - the floor has holes in it, the real wheel arches are rotted (and the rear fenders are almost non-existent), the door panels are rusted out.... I could go on. The garage mechanic estimated the repairs at around $2000, but even that was probably quite conservative.
My mechanical experience is limited but still better than a complete novice. I've rebuilt lawn mower engines and thereby learned the basics of how an engine works. I've also done some welding, mostly on lawn mower bodies. I have the most experience, however, with electronics; I've been servicing consumer electronics for years, and have become proficient with the use of oscilloscopes and other measurement equipment. I've also restored some vintage electronics including jukeboxes and antique radios, including some real basket cases which most people wouldn't have bothered with. And last but certainly not least, I have a friend who stops by every few weeks, who is a certified mechanic and could give me some hands-on assistance.
I guess the point of my post is just to get some general advice, and perhaps encouragement for whatever challenges await me on this project. It's obvious that a lot of learning will be required, but I'm willing to do what it takes to get the job done. At the very least, the goal is to make the car roadworthy again; and if time, money, and my abilities permit, I'd like to go as far as to restore this vehicle to showroom condition. And then, if nothing else, I've at least preserved a piece of my own history, or better still, laid the foundation for something more.
Some of you will probably think I'm nuts, but that doesn't matter to me. If you think this idea is crazy, I'd also like to someday find and restore a 1982 Civic, if I'm unable to track down the one my parents used to own.
Well I guess that's about it, once I do get to work (after the cars permit expires) I'll probably post again with some more specific questions.
Thanks for any advice you can offer, and if necessary please keep your criticism (or ridicule) to a minimum.

[Moppie]

If its rusty, don't waste your time.

Sometimes you just have to look past the sentimental value, and understand it is just a car. A rusty car.
You could spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours doing it up, but getting rid of rust is an extremely difficult and involved process.
The only way to do it properly is to completely strip the car down to a bare shell, and dip it and treat it.
And even then, I have seen rust come back.

Your grandmothers memory would be better served by finding a rust free model, and working on that instead.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by Moppie

If its rusty, don't waste your time.

Sometimes you just have to look past the sentimental value, and understand it is just a car. A rusty car.
You could spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours doing it up, but getting rid of rust is an extremely difficult and involved process.
The only way to do it properly is to completely strip the car down to a bare shell, and dip it and treat it.
And even then, I have seen rust come back.

Your grandmothers memory would be better served by finding a rust free model, and working on that instead.

I couldn't have said it better.

For your first auto project, start with something easy. Get a car which does not need much work before you can drive and enjoy it, but allows you to continue to improve/modify it. This will help you stay motivated and interested in the project.

There are many novice auto enthusiasts who start with a huge project and lose interest and enthusiasm because they ave hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars ahead of them before there is any reward.
Such enthusiasts often are discouraged and end up selling/scrapping their half finished projects.

And as noted above, paint and body, especially major rust repair is the most difficult and expensive repair to do properly. The most important thing is to get a car that is rust free and has all its parts. Repairing mechanical components, including engine rebuilds etc is easy compared with proper (not half-assed) body and paint repair.

[...ladies]

lol your crazy man! but do what you want if you enjoy that.

[packrat79]

I never expected something like this to be easy. Time isn't a concern though; it's well worth it to me to invest a few hundred hours of time. As for the problem of cost, my plan was to rebuild some of the rusted panels rather than buying pricey factory originals. For example, I was going to cut out the rusted section of the fender panels and rebuild them with new sheet metal. I know that taking a plain piece of sheet metal and manipulating it into the shape of a fender sounds ridiculous, but if you could see some of the old radio cabinets I've rebuilt (sometimes just from piles of pieces), I think you'd realize just what I'm capable of.
If I'm going to make a hobby (or career) of rebuilding old cars, I'm going to have to get acquainted with rust and how to deal with it. With the amount of salt used on our icy Canadian roads each winter, most car bodies start developing serious rust in about 10 to 12 years. By now, that old '82 Civic is probably just a pile of iron oxide dust (if it hasn't been recycled into beer cans), which is why I don't hold out much hope of finding it.
Point well taken, but I think I'll still make an attempt at restoration. If it truly does look like more than I can handle, I'll be sure to quit before spending too much time and money.

[Hungrycat7]

This is going to be an incredibly hard project! Rust is a huge pain in the a**! It will require a lot of fabrication and sheet metal. We don't strip then dip the car in our shop because like what was said before there is no guarantee it won't come back. I think the best route (Although the hardest) would be cutting out the rusted part, fabricating sheet metal to be exactly the same size and shape, then weld it in there. It is extremely difficult to get the piece just right! I think, no matter what sentimental value, this car will be the death of you! In the end I think everyone, in the end, would be happier to see this car in a salvage yard.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by packrat79

I never expected something like this to be easy. Time isn't a concern though; it's well worth it to me to invest a few hundred hours of time. As for the problem of cost, my plan was to rebuild some of the rusted panels rather than buying pricey factory originals. For example, I was going to cut out the rusted section of the fender panels and rebuild them with new sheet metal. I know that taking a plain piece of sheet metal and manipulating it into the shape of a fender sounds ridiculous, but if you could see some of the old radio cabinets I've rebuilt (sometimes just from piles of pieces), I think you'd realize just what I'm capable of.
If I'm going to make a hobby (or career) of rebuilding old cars, I'm going to have to get acquainted with rust and how to deal with it. With the amount of salt used on our icy Canadian roads each winter, most car bodies start developing serious rust in about 10 to 12 years. By now, that old '82 Civic is probably just a pile of iron oxide dust (if it hasn't been recycled into beer cans), which is why I don't hold out much hope of finding it.
Point well taken, but I think I'll still make an attempt at restoration. If it truly does look like more than I can handle, I'll be sure to quit before spending too much time and money.

If you want to hammer and file an 82 Civic then go for it, but, unless you completely strip it and dip it, you will NEVER get all the rust, and even stripping and dipping can miss spots.

Forget about rust on the cosmetic panels, that is just annoying. Worry about the rust in the unibody. How are you going to get to rust INSIDE the pillars, inside the structural bracing in the roof and floor, and inside subframe in the front?

You might be handy at building old radio cabinets, but have you ever worked on a car body frame, that as well as looking the right shape, also has to remain structurally sound?
Rebuild a rear quarter panel or pillar the wrong way, and you won't just be remembering your grand mother, you will being going to meet her when the car falls about at 100kph.

[packrat79]

Originally Posted by Moppie

If you want to hammer and file an 82 Civic then go for it, but, unless you completely strip it and dip it, you will NEVER get all the rust, and even stripping and dipping can miss spots.

Forget about rust on the cosmetic panels, that is just annoying. Worry about the rust in the unibody. How are you going to get to rust INSIDE the pillars, inside the structural bracing in the roof and floor, and inside subframe in the front?

You might be handy at building old radio cabinets, but have you ever worked on a car body frame, that as well as looking the right shape, also has to remain structurally sound?
Rebuild a rear quarter panel or pillar the wrong way, and you won't just be remembering your grand mother, you will being going to meet her when the car falls about at 100kph.

I wouldn't be too worried about that for two reasons: (1) I've got a couple of expert mechanic buddies (one actually rebuilds old rusty wrecks) to help me out, and (2) the car would have to pass a rigorous inspection by a licensed mechanic, before it could legally be driven again. I may be new to the profession, but I'm willing to learn and doubly willing to seek advice when I need it.
FYI my grandma is still alive and well, she just had to give up driving due to problems like failing eyesight. I don't think anyone should still be driving at 93 anyway.....

[partsmgn]

There is ways of killing rust.... one way is to use phosphoric acid. This acid is pink and is a jelly... so after to apply it you can leave it there all night and it won't run away!! After you can fill any deep holes with lead and then Bondo over top of it and then paint it. If you try to weld larger holes don't try to lay one continuious bead of metal.... it will only make things worse.... instead do spot welds this will slowly fill in holes and won't make the hole bigger.