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05-15-2003, 07:04 PM | #46 | ||
Cali Guy
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Quote:
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Silver '00 Civic EJ6 Coupe PureHonda original member since Feb. 2000 D-series revolution For pics of my baby, click here! All rights reserved... All BITERS served! "The last time you had THIS much fun driving a car, it cost a quarter, and gyrated in front of the supermarket." i have yet to see any well done imports around here. most are road toilets driven by some high school punk -Drift hessemer69 on AIM |
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05-15-2003, 07:14 PM | #47 | |
Cali Guy
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This pic below is what I was talking about with the reversing of the rotors when slotted. The rotors on the car in the pic are put on so the slots turn AGAINST the caliper, so that the outside edge of the slot reaches the caliper first verses how you have your rotors put on, which is also how mine are on right now. An advantages/disadvantages to having the slots in this direction?
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Silver '00 Civic EJ6 Coupe PureHonda original member since Feb. 2000 D-series revolution For pics of my baby, click here! All rights reserved... All BITERS served! "The last time you had THIS much fun driving a car, it cost a quarter, and gyrated in front of the supermarket." i have yet to see any well done imports around here. most are road toilets driven by some high school punk -Drift hessemer69 on AIM |
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05-16-2003, 12:39 AM | #48 | ||
Master Connector
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Quote:
I didnt say anything about heat disapation. A solid disc exposes a greater surface area to the pad than a drilled or slotted disc, and so theres more friction and greater braking force, but of course at the expense of more heat.
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05-16-2003, 03:23 AM | #49 | |
AF Fanatic
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So,
Where was I wrong in what I posted?
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R32 GTR w/351w .020 forged, 8.9:1, PTK T76, Turbosmart 40 BC & 45 WG, Tial 40 BV, AFR 205s 310/245, 228/228 550/550 114 Hydro, 1.7rr, Isky RLs, 4" HKS exhaust, ARC 30x16x4 IC, 8 point cage, C2 gauges, 2 step, C4 3200 stall w/ R Manual & Hurst Ratchet shifter, 17" Panasport G7s, CSU 750 & bonnet, Vic Jr intake, 3.63 gears, Corbeau Carrera seats, Custom wide body, Bomex side skirts and rear 1/4 caps, Tommy Kaira bumper. |
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05-16-2003, 02:30 PM | #50 | |
Cali Guy
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Just to stick my nose up in this, both are right. You DO need something that will disipate heat better and quicker (larger rotor) but you also need/want something that'll let you slow down quicker (solid surface area). Thing is, I really have yet to see a big brake upgrade kit that offers say like "13 solid blank rotors. Look at all the popular big brake kits from Baer, Wilwood, AEM, Brembo, ALL come with slotted if not x-drilled rotors. Defeats the whole purpose of a larger brake, doesn't it?
Let me bump something else into the equasion here, what does THIS kind of brake system do for a car in terms of braking ability?
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Silver '00 Civic EJ6 Coupe PureHonda original member since Feb. 2000 D-series revolution For pics of my baby, click here! All rights reserved... All BITERS served! "The last time you had THIS much fun driving a car, it cost a quarter, and gyrated in front of the supermarket." i have yet to see any well done imports around here. most are road toilets driven by some high school punk -Drift hessemer69 on AIM |
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05-16-2003, 04:36 PM | #51 | |
AF Fanatic
Thread starter
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Of course the surface area will be a player in the scheme of things, but that is not what stops your car.
Those brakes, where did you find those, or better question who in the hell would make them
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R32 GTR w/351w .020 forged, 8.9:1, PTK T76, Turbosmart 40 BC & 45 WG, Tial 40 BV, AFR 205s 310/245, 228/228 550/550 114 Hydro, 1.7rr, Isky RLs, 4" HKS exhaust, ARC 30x16x4 IC, 8 point cage, C2 gauges, 2 step, C4 3200 stall w/ R Manual & Hurst Ratchet shifter, 17" Panasport G7s, CSU 750 & bonnet, Vic Jr intake, 3.63 gears, Corbeau Carrera seats, Custom wide body, Bomex side skirts and rear 1/4 caps, Tommy Kaira bumper. |
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05-16-2003, 06:27 PM | #52 | ||
Cali Guy
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Quote:
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Silver '00 Civic EJ6 Coupe PureHonda original member since Feb. 2000 D-series revolution For pics of my baby, click here! All rights reserved... All BITERS served! "The last time you had THIS much fun driving a car, it cost a quarter, and gyrated in front of the supermarket." i have yet to see any well done imports around here. most are road toilets driven by some high school punk -Drift hessemer69 on AIM |
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05-17-2003, 04:18 PM | #53 | ||
AF Fanatic
Thread starter
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Quote:
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R32 GTR w/351w .020 forged, 8.9:1, PTK T76, Turbosmart 40 BC & 45 WG, Tial 40 BV, AFR 205s 310/245, 228/228 550/550 114 Hydro, 1.7rr, Isky RLs, 4" HKS exhaust, ARC 30x16x4 IC, 8 point cage, C2 gauges, 2 step, C4 3200 stall w/ R Manual & Hurst Ratchet shifter, 17" Panasport G7s, CSU 750 & bonnet, Vic Jr intake, 3.63 gears, Corbeau Carrera seats, Custom wide body, Bomex side skirts and rear 1/4 caps, Tommy Kaira bumper. |
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05-17-2003, 04:40 PM | #54 | ||
AF Newbie
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Quote:
Great thread.. You're partially right - a xdrilled rotor may have less mass than a blank while at the same time its surface area measured on all axis still being roughly the same due to the holes increasing the surface area on the z-axis (assuming you are looking at the hat of the rotor). However, decreased mass will result in a lesser ability to distribute heat energy thoughout the rotor, thus making it less "efficient" at dissipating heat, which results in increased rotor/pad temperature and reduced breaking performance as well as risking structural integrity - it all goes downhill from there.. When moppie refered to "surface area," I am assuming that he meant the surface area on the x and y axis - the axis that matters the most. The larger the surface area on the x and y axis, the more friction can be generated between the surface of the rotor and the brake pad, and greater enegry transfer (stopping power) can be obtained. A smooth surface will also help insure that more of the pad surface area is in contact with the rotor. As moppie mentioned, the only time xdrilled or slotted rotors will _really_ make a difference is if you increase the size of the rotor to compensate for the removed surface area on the x and y axis of the rotor. BOTH for heat distribution AND breaking power. Some may argue that because some surface area on the xy axis is removed, that there will be less friction, and therefore less energy transfer in the form of heat, which in turn compensates for the lesser mass of the rotor. In either case, you are making your braking system less efficient at doing what it was designed to do. I'm with moppie on this one.. Unless you're upgrading to bigger rotors, xdrilled or slotted rotors are a waste of money if your goal is decreased stopping distance. The best upgrade you can do on a stock-sized rotor is to upgrade your brake bads. As for the direction of slotted rotors, they should flow away from the caliper. In the same fashion that the vents in the middle of the rotor create a centripidal fan which sucks air in from the middle "hat" of the rotor and pushes it out the sides, you want the slots to do the same. "Your milage may vary.."
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05-17-2003, 06:52 PM | #55 | ||
AF Fanatic
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tarmac165,
Very well said, and I totally agree, in theory Quote:
As for the way the slots should face, I really do not think it matters. But, the way explained it, the pic that SilverY2KCivic posted, you are saying is correct? My hole point was more mass for the rotors, I guess I did not explain myself that well, sorry guys. Like I said, I totally agree with your post, tarmac165.
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R32 GTR w/351w .020 forged, 8.9:1, PTK T76, Turbosmart 40 BC & 45 WG, Tial 40 BV, AFR 205s 310/245, 228/228 550/550 114 Hydro, 1.7rr, Isky RLs, 4" HKS exhaust, ARC 30x16x4 IC, 8 point cage, C2 gauges, 2 step, C4 3200 stall w/ R Manual & Hurst Ratchet shifter, 17" Panasport G7s, CSU 750 & bonnet, Vic Jr intake, 3.63 gears, Corbeau Carrera seats, Custom wide body, Bomex side skirts and rear 1/4 caps, Tommy Kaira bumper. |
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05-17-2003, 07:21 PM | #56 | |||
AF Newbie
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Quote:
Cross drilling may increase the OVERALL surface area, but it does in fact decrease the surface area in contact with thre brake pad. Again, when moppie made his statement, I am assuming he was refering to the surface area in contact with the brake pad, and as I (and moppie) stated before, crossdrilling or slotting your rotor will reduce its ability to do its job unless compensated by increasing the diameter of the rotor to increase the surface area in contact with the pad (big brakes upgrade). However, as you said, surface area is not the only variable, MASS is very important as well.. It takes much more energy to heat a large item than it does to heat a small item... With any good heatsink, the larger the surface area, the more efficiently it can dissipate heat. While drilling/slotting your rotors will increase the rotors ability to dissipate the heat, it is also of smaller mass and therefore heats-up quicker, and has to store more heat in a smaller space... It's all a tradeoff.. The key is to find the best compromise. Quote:
It is my belief that the rotor installation illustrated in the picture posted by SilverY2KCivic is incorrect and may be for show purposes only. Correct installation is as follows: Although I have never tested a slotted rotor in the "reverse" direction to be able to tell you for sure if it makes a notible difference or not. I can tell you that logic would indicate that there is only one proper way to install sloted rotors. You want the slots in the rotors to begin on the inside and work their way outward with rotation. This is because you want any particles that come off of the pad to be propelled off of the surface outward with rotation, and not inward. -Alex
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Last edited by tarmac165; 05-17-2003 at 07:51 PM. |
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05-18-2003, 02:02 AM | #57 | |
AF Fanatic
Thread starter
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When I read you post, it was 1 am in the morning, and I had a few pints from the local pub too boot.
I believe everything you have just posted, is the same thing I have been saying all along. So, we all agree, that Cross-Drilled rotors really do not help, unless they are physically bigger. tarmac165, Thank you for posting the clarification on the slots as well.
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R32 GTR w/351w .020 forged, 8.9:1, PTK T76, Turbosmart 40 BC & 45 WG, Tial 40 BV, AFR 205s 310/245, 228/228 550/550 114 Hydro, 1.7rr, Isky RLs, 4" HKS exhaust, ARC 30x16x4 IC, 8 point cage, C2 gauges, 2 step, C4 3200 stall w/ R Manual & Hurst Ratchet shifter, 17" Panasport G7s, CSU 750 & bonnet, Vic Jr intake, 3.63 gears, Corbeau Carrera seats, Custom wide body, Bomex side skirts and rear 1/4 caps, Tommy Kaira bumper. |
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05-18-2003, 02:25 AM | #58 | ||
Cali Guy
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Quote:
__________________
Silver '00 Civic EJ6 Coupe PureHonda original member since Feb. 2000 D-series revolution For pics of my baby, click here! All rights reserved... All BITERS served! "The last time you had THIS much fun driving a car, it cost a quarter, and gyrated in front of the supermarket." i have yet to see any well done imports around here. most are road toilets driven by some high school punk -Drift hessemer69 on AIM |
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05-18-2003, 03:29 AM | #59 | |
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OK, not having read this theread here's my opinion:
1)cross-drilled helps dissipate heat better, it's proven 2)cross-drilled cracks easier, it's proven 3)if cross drilled correctly (i.e. chafered holes) they will hold up almost as well as solid rotors 4)slotted is ultimately just a compromise
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Some people deserve to have their vocal chords ripped out. Oh yeah, and American beer is like having sex in a canoe...it's fucking close to water. Proud member of www.automobileforum.com Mod -www.autoworldforums.com |
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05-18-2003, 07:09 AM | #60 | ||
AF Fanatic
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Quote:
Of course, if you are talking about the Swiss cheese rotors that Porsche uses, I wonder how much they cost? For the record, I am in complete agreement with tarmac165, on all subjects:sun:
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R32 GTR w/351w .020 forged, 8.9:1, PTK T76, Turbosmart 40 BC & 45 WG, Tial 40 BV, AFR 205s 310/245, 228/228 550/550 114 Hydro, 1.7rr, Isky RLs, 4" HKS exhaust, ARC 30x16x4 IC, 8 point cage, C2 gauges, 2 step, C4 3200 stall w/ R Manual & Hurst Ratchet shifter, 17" Panasport G7s, CSU 750 & bonnet, Vic Jr intake, 3.63 gears, Corbeau Carrera seats, Custom wide body, Bomex side skirts and rear 1/4 caps, Tommy Kaira bumper. |
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