Search | Car Forums | Gallery | Articles | Helper | AF 350Z | IgorSushko.com | Corporate |
| Latest | 0 Rplys |
|
Engineering/Technical Ask technical questions about cars. Do you know how a car engine works? |
View Poll Results: Which Engine is the better for Forced Induction?? | |||
D15 | 5 | 4.39% | |
B16A | 13 | 11.40% | |
D17A | 0 | 0% | |
B18B | 45 | 39.47% | |
B18C1 | 27 | 23.68% | |
B18C5 | 12 | 10.53% | |
H22A | 12 | 10.53% | |
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll |
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread |
|
Thread Tools |
08-20-2003, 04:47 PM | #31 | ||
AF Enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 1,132
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Re: Re: Re: Which Engine for Forced Induction??
Quote:
|
||
08-21-2003, 06:56 AM | #32 | ||
Honda God
|
Re: Re: Re: Re: Which Engine for Forced Induction??
Quote:
|
||
10-14-2003, 02:08 PM | #33 | |
AF Enthusiast
|
Turbo spooling ideas...
Maybe Im just crazy, but why does everyone say the turbo spooling is so greatly dependant on the gearing, I figure it will spool to whatever rpm your at. - Are you saying that long gears are better becuase the turbo can "keep up" with the increase in RPM, where as it cant spool fast enough if you have a high gear, becuase of the time it takes to increase rpm is less? I would figure, that when idling (off the start) you'd want a very short gear to get it spooled (and just give that one away), then when you drop down to the next gear, it will already be spooling fast enough for the drop into a long gear. I think of this mostly becuase when your sitting at the start, your not going to drop the crap out of first in a fwd car, so the turbo wont keep up anyway, so just keep it as short as possible and use it to your advantage in the other 3 gears whitch could then be signifigantly longer w/o loosing anything. So basically what Im saying, is that you wouldnt want a long first gear becuase the turbo would basically be going from a stop and trying to start there, with a larger mechanichal disadvatage. I pose it as a question, because I dont have a turbo, yet, so I'm really just thinking about what should be happening, and If Im wrong could ya just help me out? My Buzz1167 Jon N |
|
10-16-2003, 01:23 PM | #34 | ||
Honda God
|
Re: Which Engine for Forced Induction??
Quote:
|
||
10-16-2003, 02:25 PM | #35 | |
AF Enthusiast
|
Ok, I get most of what you said, but basically my entire query hinges on the statement:
"Turbo's don't kick in really until a cetrain RPM, when they are spooled enough to creat more power. This is what cases "turbo lag."" So take that idea off of the starting line: that means at some arbitrary number, we'll say 3000rpm, the turbo starts "actually making power" That means if you have a "long" first gear, that you will be under 3000 for longer when your starting. So My thought was to make a relatively short first gear (first gear only) and just run up to like 30mph in first, then that you have motion, you can drop down to a long gear that begins at, we'll say 3200 @ 30mph, or something like that and now your where you want to be. Then you can use the entire band for the rest of the time. So lets take that idea, and say youve got a long first gear, so your sitting at 2000rpm off the start until you get moving; then after about 4000 rpm the turbo might "kick in" (becuase of turbo lag) and since your in first gear, its probably just gonna screw up the lanuch anyway. And another example, say youve got a short first gear, so the engine revs up much faster, youve got mechanichal advantage, so you can make the most of the "non-turbo" time and since your revving up faster, youll probably never get full turbo boost becuase youd probably be outrevving it with the engine? But even if that happens, now its time to switch gears, and the turbo is spooled so your set, and it take less time to get through a short gear than the long one, so you changing gears sooner. Im basically saying that a boost in first gear seems kind of useless becuase you only there for a few seconds, so you might as well just ditch it and setup for the next gear. BTW, what exactly do you consider long and short gears anyway? I dont know ratios, I was thinking that short would probably mean 30-35mph and long more like 40-45? I know the corvette can go like 60 in first, but then again, its not turbo'd, it got it becuase its got so much friggen power it doesnt matter. ???¿¿¿ Buzz1167 Jon N |
|
10-18-2003, 02:41 AM | #36 | ||
Honda God
|
Re: Which Engine for Forced Induction??
Quote:
|
||
10-18-2003, 10:28 PM | #37 | |
AF Enthusiast
|
Ok, so your saying that the first gear doesnt really matter too much, and thus doesnt apply to the "long gear" rule. Ok, I can get that. The first gear was the only one I was arguing about, I didnt think all the gears should be short, like an entirely new gear box, just the first.
And the tranny hybrid description is kind of the opposite of what I thought it should be, I guess its kinda the same idea. - You say people use a gsr tranny and a ls final gear, By my reasoning they should be using an ls tranny with a Gsr first gear. Is the gsr tranny better by something other than its gear ratios and thats why they use it, or maybe you can't reverse it? I ask becuase I have a "crv" tranny, and I think its more like the ls tranny. Buzz1167 Jon N |
|
10-19-2003, 07:29 PM | #38 | ||
Honda God
|
Re: Which Engine for Forced Induction??
Quote:
|
||
10-31-2003, 12:29 PM | #39 | |
AF Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Turbo Gear Ratios And Compression
I'LL START OFF WITH A QUESTION...WHEN DOES AN ENGINE FLOW MORE AIR? IN HIGHER RPMS OF COURSE! AN LS TRANNY TAKES LONGER TO GET TO HIGH RPMS SO THEREFORE BOOST WOULD NOT KICK IN AS FAST...A GSR OR TYPE R TRANNY STAYS IN THE HIGHER RPMS LONGER (THEREFORE MORE AIR FLOW) THROUGH EVERY GEAR SO THEREFORE BOOST WOULD KICK IN FASTER! DUH
IN TERMS OF COMPRESSION RATIO ITS BETTER TO HAVE A HIGHER COMPRESSION RATIO AND LESS BOOST THEN A LOW COMPRESSION RATIO AND MORE BOOST BECAUSE HIGHER COMPRESSION AND SMALL TURBO ACCOMPANYING THE LOW BOOST = HIGHLY RESPONSIVE & LESS TURBO LAG THERFORE I WOULD GO WITH EITHER THE GSR OR TYPE R |
|
10-31-2003, 03:47 PM | #40 | ||
AF Enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Enola, Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,883
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Re: Turbo Gear Ratios And Compression
Quote:
Yes, higher RPM flows more air. However, there is this little problem called traction. Getting to that higher RPM faster will only make you spin your tires more resulting in lower ET's. Secondly, the LS tranny is not so high that it drops your engine RPM's down that low to the point where you don't make boost when you shift. You will still be in full boost in anything over 4K RPM, so if you shift at 7K, it will only drop to like 5K so you are still going to boost in full. I will give an extreme example for you're theary about low/high compression VS low/High boost. A 8.5:1 compression engine can boost about 18 PSI on pump gas. A 10:1 can only boost about 8. Now that extra 1.5:1 compression is going to give your engine about 20 more HP. But the 10 extra PSI of boost is going to give your engine 100 HP extra. Which do you think is going to win a race? Sure before the turbo spools the higher compression is going to jump ahead, but after about a half a second of glory it's going to be shattered at the 10 car lengths the high boosted car is going to win by. Are you done giving your unexperienced opinion now? |
||
11-02-2003, 05:23 AM | #41 | ||
AF Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 107
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Re: Which Engine for Forced Induction??
Quote:
Well, I hate to jump on the band wagon, but they don't state that they're using a stock gsr block, it says stock b18 block with a gsr head. Also note that a 3mm(stock is .75mm) head gasket is going to lower the compression quite a bit, which would allow for more boost than a stock gsr. If you don't have a bunch of cash laying around, I think it'd be easier to boost an LS, than a GSR or ITR. You can always swap a vtec head on there later if you want to. However, the whole bottom end on a GSR/ITR is a lot stronger than an LS. For instance, stronger rods, wider rod journals, better rod/stroke ratio, higher pressure oil pump, water system type oil cooler, and a block girdle. So this would likely be more reliable, just more limited on how much boost you can use on pump gas before detonation. If you had a lot of cash and wanted to go all out, there's no doubt the gsr/itr block is better, you can sleeve it to 84mm+, add a deck plate (or just buy a taller after market block), and buy all strong aftermarket internals to make it bulletproof. They you could probably put a huge turbo on it and boost it to like 20+ pounds with all kinds of crazy tuning equipment. I personally wouldn't want to go this route, I bet you'd get like 10 miles to the gallon with all the fuel it'd take to keep you from detonating. Really this is all speculation as I don't know much about turbos and I just like to ramble on as if I have a clue what I'm talking about.
__________________
94 Integra LS Engine is in the car! Installed parts GSR block/head, ARP head studs, eagle rods, Endyn pistons/rings, King bearings, REV stainless valves, Portlfow springs &Tit. retainers, BBK 70mm Throttle body, RC 310cc Injectors, Aerospeed plug wires, generic 2.75" CAI, Civic SI crank pulley, 130amp alternator, Hondata S300 in P72 ECU 01 GSR shocks/springs, 17" Enkei Zenkei's, Homemade Black ABS trunk floor Mods: Removed AC system, routed Coolant Outside Intake Mani |
||
11-12-2003, 10:14 AM | #42 | ||
AF Regular
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fiero City, Nebraska
Posts: 252
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Re: Which Engine for Forced Induction??
Quote:
__________________
Turbo 351w E85 |
||
01-26-2004, 12:40 AM | #43 | |
AF Newbie
|
Re: Which Engine for Forced Induction??
y is the h22 a bad engine to turbo?
|
|
01-26-2004, 01:18 AM | #44 | ||
AF Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 377
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Re: Re: Which Engine for Forced Induction??
Quote:
Hey what about F22 motors??? Does everything that goes to H22s apply to F22s since it is the same series |
||
01-26-2004, 03:45 AM | #45 | |
AF Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: pittsburg, California
Posts: 1,229
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
hey everyone, man the thread has really change. here are some dynos so we can end this once and for all. man, wish someone pm me earlier, but oh well. what im going to show u are two dynos, a turbo gsr and ls which both having very similar hp but the gsr is at its optimum psi unlike the ls.
as u can see this make 234whp at 8psi, but if u look carefully at the tq, this is only at 170. not only that, but it has a better turbo kit. here's the ls: with this one its making 230whp at 10 but can still go higher to 12 to reach its optimum psi. the tq unlike the b18c1 is at 207, thats a difference of 37lbs of tq! the kit in use is a drag which doesn't compare to the rev hard. at 12 psi, i infer the hp could go to +240 and +215 for tq. just like the other guys said earlier, tq will run the streets. in this long debated case of what engine is better hopefully u now know. so to answer the guy's question and many others, the best engine for forced induction is the b18b, all hail . i got the 92 ls b18a which make similar power results to the b18b so there wouldn't be much of a difference at all.
__________________
Last edited by tran_nsx; 01-26-2004 at 04:15 AM. |
|
|
POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD |
|
|