EVO MR FQ400 vs. Corvette Z06 vs. Mustang Cobra R

[fairladyz_gt-r]

Originally Posted by kman10587

Please try to read his post more carefully. Both the SL65 AMG and M3 are tuned in-house, and they are both mass-produced. The FQ400 is an extremely-limited, race track-ready, ultra-modified car. That's also why the Z06 is infinitely more drivable off the track. I don't see what all the confusion is for.

Actually, let's make this really simple: can you walk into any Chevrolet dealership and buy a Z06? Can you walk into any Mitsubishi dealership and buy an FQ400? There you go.

SL65AMG is also a limited run car there is 270 of them flotting around. Also u can walk into a Mitsubishi dealership to buy an FQ400. Don't forget this is an international forums. In UK i can walk in and get one. not only in the UK here in Thailand is also possible. If u are going to base everything on ur own country then i can tell u. i can't walk into a chevy's dealer here to buy a Z06. so that make it non-stock? and plus in house u say? AMG is not as in House as you think they modifly EVO's too...oh and lets don't forget they modifly dodge too. and as for M3? well you guys said that the engine wasn't bone stock...M3 engine basiclly is and 330i with increased cc and balanced piston etc. oh and mass production u say? soo all the car with handbuild engine don't count the huh?

[drunken monkey]

i) the M3's inline six is nothing like the 330's six.
sure you can mod it but you and your aftermarket parts isn't going to turn it into the M3's six.
ii) you can't just walk into any mitsubishi dealsership and buy an FQ400.
iii) the SL65AMG isn't a limited production car, it's just made slowly.
iv) you don't seem to know what 'in-house' means so don't talk about what you don't know.

but i should say, i'm not entirely convinced that the FQ400 should be considered a modded car. i mean, it [i]is[i/] a turbo rally based car (so aren't all EVO's modded cars?).

I see it as another, albeit limited, version with a very special state of tune.

argue away boys.....

[DVS LT1]

I know there's a lot of good points out there (I've argued about this before too), but the fact is if whatever it is you're buying comes with a manufacturer's warranty and you pick it up from the dealership then it is a production car. It can very well be a customized production car, but so what? Where do you draw the line on which suppliers make up authentic dealer parts? GM uses Crane to build their performance parts roller rockers and Comp Cams for a few of their P.P. camshafts. SLP originally took Z28's and Firebird's from the factory to their own location to change them into SS & Firehawk models, then sent them to the dealers. After a few years GM/SLP produced them in house. Would a '96 SS be considered a tuner car and a '99 SS be considered production?

Here's a good example: the Corvette ZR-1. Its 32-valve LT5 V8 was designed by GM's Lotus division in Britain and built by Mercury Marine. GM's production cost on the LT5 was astronomical (due in large part because a third party was building it). Was the ZR-1 a tuner car??

Don't think so. Don't matter who built it, designed it, whatever... that car was all Vette, and a classic.

[TRD2000]

hmmmm my car's got a yamaha engine, is yamaha in hose for toyota?

better still my g/f's car has momo and recaro interior, and a kenwood cd/md all from mitsubishi, some parts are standard, some parts were options but they are all under the warrantee and available from the dealer.... if we ticked the box with different wheel style is it no longer a factory car?

it's REALLY common for jap cars like these to not only have parts changed by "aftermarket" companies but to have to strip them first to do it.

fact is when the car is built it is built from day 1 to have those parts fitted, it doesn't matter whether they fit in in the production line or drive it down the street to get the parts fitted, thats the production process, just cause you would produce it a different way doesn't mean its better. besides i'm willing to bet there are more cars coming of the lancer/evo factory line than there are the corvette line, and these cars go on to have all sorts of different specs, seems to me to make sense to want to get the extra special ones out of the way, that way you could take longer on them and not hold up the granny lancers behind it...

[drunken monkey]

....should also add that in the uk, with the exception of the standard uk spec evo, all of the others are FQs (280, 300, 340, 400).

[Master Hiko]

all good points but it is called the MR (mitsu racing) which makes it as in-house as SVT to me IMO. just because chevy doesnt designate the department that designs and builds the Z06 with an insignia or letterhead, doesnt make it any less modded than another IMO. chevy didnt manufacture quite a few parts on the Z06 so since chevy didnt make it, its modded as well (according to some ppls posts here). btw, since when is an engine swap not modding? atleast the evo is using the same engine, the vette isnt even using the vette engine, they just dropped a completely different one in there instead. thats more of a modification than saleen does for stangs (which is a shitload). as far as modding goes, an engine swap is obviously more modding than basically just slapping on a bigger turbo. ( i know its a bit more than that but still...). im sure theres some inconsistancy in my post but im damn near sleep. now im off to bed, you can rip my post apart till i come back. HAVE AT YOU SNAKE!!

[Vettribution87]

Originally Posted by Master Hiko

btw, since when is an engine swap not modding? atleast the evo is using the same engine, the vette isnt even using the vette engine, they just dropped a completely different one in there instead. thats more of a modification than saleen does for stangs (which is a shitload). as far as modding goes, an engine swap is obviously more modding than basically just slapping on a bigger turbo.

Z06 modded?! Engine swap?!
I hate to put a fly in you’re ointment but an engine swap involves removing an already fitted engine from a car and replacing it with something different.
See below:

Originally Posted by Vettribution87

Why the Z06 is stock:
· The engine used in a Z06 is a different engine to a standard C5 altogether. The LS6 used in the Z06 is not a modded LS1 and therefore is considered a stock engine.
· For the past few years all hard top Corvettes have been Z06’s. You cannot buy a Z06 that isn’t a hardtop and you cannot buy a hardtop that isn’t a Z06. Why is this significant? Well, as the hardtop is a different body frame to the targa and convertible, this clearly means that a Z06 is built form the ground up as a Z06. They didn’t just grab a standard C5, weld on the targa roof panel, screw around with the suspension and drop in a different engine.

If you bothered to read this post the first time you would know from the second point that a Z06 Corvette can pretty much be identified the moment it's space frame is formed. The Z06 isn’t an optional package that goes on top of the standard C5; it’s a different model. No amount of modifications is going to turn a standard C5 into a Z06 without some kind of elaborate custom work.
The Z06 is stock; end of story.

The FQ400 on the other hand as I have said involves carrying out changes to a standard EVO. Changes to the engine, transmission, suspension and other major systems that alter the performance of the car.
Were not talking about things like sparkplugs, light bulbs and stereos here.
Here is a list of changes to the EVO that make the FQ400:

Custom built Garrett GT Dual Ball bearing Turbocharger
Owen Developments custom manufactured cast Stainless Steel Exhaust Manifold and Exhaust Elbow
Omega Forged Pistons
HKS Forged Con Rods
HKS 680cc Injectors
Zytec ITP116 High Pressure Fuel Pump
HKS 1.6 mm Steel Head Gasket
Motec M800 OEM ECU
HKS Iridium Spark Plugs
Jan Speed High Flow Sports Cat
Alcon competition derived 240 mm high clamp mode, heavy duty clutch complete with Cera-metallic 6 paddle sprung centred drive plate
HKS High Strength Head and Big End Bolts
Alcon Mono6 Brake Kit incorporating Monobloc 6 pot road caliper with 343 mm curved vein Disc on a Aluminium mounting bell assembly with Ferodo DS2500 brake pads
Ralliart Aero Mirrors
Carbon Fibre Front Lip Spoiler
Carbon Fibre "Sharks Tooth" Rear Vortex Generator
PIAA High Performance Light and Wiper Upgrade
Gloss Black Team Dynamics Lightweight Alloy Wheels

Sounds like the mod list someone would put in their signature. Notice the large number of aftermarket names that crop up. Even the turbo is the work of Garret, custom built as it may be.

I don’t expect to convince everyone with my thoughts on what is stock and what isn’t but to say that a Z06 is as "modded" as an FQ400 is absurd. The Callaway Corvettes of the late 80's are more on par with the FQ400 when it comes to this. They are made in a similar fashion with the only difference being that Callaway was not a subsidiary of GM as Ralliart is to Mitsubishi.

[fairladyz_gt-r]

Originally Posted by Vettribution87

Z06 modded?! Engine swap?!
I hate to put a fly in you’re ointment but an engine swap involves removing an already fitted engine from a car and replacing it with something different.
See below:



If you bothered to read this post the first time you would know from the second point that a Z06 Corvette can pretty much be identified the moment it's space frame is formed. The Z06 isn’t an optional package that goes on top of the standard C5; it’s a different model. No amount of modifications is going to turn a standard C5 into a Z06 without some kind of elaborate custom work.
The Z06 is stock; end of story.

The FQ400 on the other hand as I have said involves carrying out changes to a standard EVO. Changes to the engine, transmission, suspension and other major systems that alter the performance of the car. Oh an also i think i know what in house mean...it mean that the mod company is own by the firm.... and go check...AMG do mod dodge and mitsubishi....
Were not talking about things like sparkplugs, light bulbs and stereos here.
Here is a list of changes to the EVO that make the FQ400:

Custom built Garrett GT Dual Ball bearing Turbocharger
Owen Developments custom manufactured cast Stainless Steel Exhaust Manifold and Exhaust Elbow
Omega Forged Pistons
HKS Forged Con Rods
HKS 680cc Injectors
Zytec ITP116 High Pressure Fuel Pump
HKS 1.6 mm Steel Head Gasket
Motec M800 OEM ECU
HKS Iridium Spark Plugs
Jan Speed High Flow Sports Cat
Alcon competition derived 240 mm high clamp mode, heavy duty clutch complete with Cera-metallic 6 paddle sprung centred drive plate
HKS High Strength Head and Big End Bolts
Alcon Mono6 Brake Kit incorporating Monobloc 6 pot road caliper with 343 mm curved vein Disc on a Aluminium mounting bell assembly with Ferodo DS2500 brake pads
Ralliart Aero Mirrors
Carbon Fibre Front Lip Spoiler
Carbon Fibre "Sharks Tooth" Rear Vortex Generator
PIAA High Performance Light and Wiper Upgrade
Gloss Black Team Dynamics Lightweight Alloy Wheels

Sounds like the mod list someone would put in their signature. Notice the large number of aftermarket names that crop up. Even the turbo is the work of Garret, custom built as it may be.

I don’t expect to convince everyone with my thoughts on what is stock and what isn’t but to say that a Z06 is as "modded" as an FQ400 is absurd. The Callaway Corvettes of the late 80's are more on par with the FQ400 when it comes to this. They are made in a similar fashion with the only difference being that Callaway was not a subsidiary of GM as Ralliart is to Mitsubishi.

So this mean a Skyline GT-R is tuned from the factory too? because the turbo is made by Garret? and NUR version then will be consider are race car? because its engine passed FIA's check for N1 class? dude...what u trying to prove here?

[DVS LT1]

My Z must be a tuner because its got so much AC Delco shit in it...

lol I'm just pullin chains here

[Master Hiko]

i see your point guy, but i find it funny that you say an MR is modded because it uses parts that mitsu didnt make when we all know a Z06 uses parts chevy (and most others) didnt make, that logic is hypocritical so im axxing it. im getting tired of people saying "you didnt read his post..." because its obvious you didnt read mine right. im not trying to prove that a Z06 is modded more than a MR, im just saying if one is considered modded albeit more, doesnt mean the next one isnt.

the other defense i keep getting (which is quite good i might add) is that because its a different engine, and because of the hard top thing which doesnt fly with me because the frame from the Z06 is the same as the C5 in that aspect, just because they havent recently made any FRC C5s doesnt mean that frame is designated a Z06 frame, if it was then no one could have owned a vette with that frame without owning a Z06 which we know isnt true so im going to axe that logic as well. what we are left with is the engine thing which like i said is a good argument that i cant refute at this moment (or ever). *hands Vettribution87 a beer*

[fairladyz_gt-r]

Originally Posted by Master Hiko

*hands Vettribution87 a beer*

I agree~ he ran out of excues to use....FQ400 is better!

[Vettribution87]

Originally Posted by Master Hiko

i see your point guy, but i find it funny that you say an MR is modded because it uses parts that mitsu didnt make when we all know a Z06 uses parts chevy (and most others) didnt make, that logic is hypocritical so im axxing it. im getting tired of people saying "you didnt read his post..." because its obvious you didnt read mine right. im not trying to prove that a Z06 is modded more than a MR, im just saying if one is considered modded albeit more, doesnt mean the next one isnt.

Thankyou for understanding some of what I was trying to say. (I do apologise for my less then polite reply in my last post)
In any case when you mention the "MR" (ie. Mitsubishi Racing) it causes me a bit of confusion as I have seen that same designation on EVO's with less then half the capability of the FQ400, and even on those cheap Mitsubishi Colts that not too long ago used to be sold over here in Australia badged as Lancers for some reason.
See Pic Below:

1999 Lancer MR CEII



In any case I was referring to the EVO FQ400 alone and not the "MR" or "MR" range in general.
Although thinking it though I suppose you right regarding the use of 3rd party parts as it does seem (especially these days) that 3rd party parts are the norm. Even though I suspect that the FQ400 has received far more 3rd party attention then the Z06 I have to concede that technically it would be pretty hard to justify this as an argument as it would require drawing the line on what is an acceptable level of 3rd party involvement. This in turn would be open to bias and therefore become an unfair argument to use.
Nevertheless I remain suspicious of wether this FQ400 can be considered stock due to the way it is made; but I suppose I will have to leave it there as trying to categorize stock and modded has proven to be a very vague and opinionated subject to deal with.

Originally Posted by Master Hiko

the other defense i keep getting (which is quite good i might add) is that because its a different engine, and because of the hard top thing which doesnt fly with me because the frame from the Z06 is the same as the C5 in that aspect, just because they havent recently made any FRC C5s doesnt mean that frame is designated a Z06 frame, if it was then no one could have owned a vette with that frame without owning a Z06 which we know isnt true so im going to axe that logic as well. what we are left with is the engine thing which like i said is a good argument that i cant refute at this moment (or ever). *hands Vettribution87 a beer*

I am not quite sure what you’re trying to tell me in this one but nevertheless I will try explaining in greater detail my point with regards to the Z06's space frame.
Although (as you quite rightly point out) the space frame of a C5 targa and a Z06 have many similarities, it still doesn’t escape the fact that for production purposes all 2001+ hard tops are Z06's. One of the lessons learned from the C4 Corvette was to exploit the extra stiffness and rigidity of the cars roof to decrease lateral and vertical chassis roll. Now way back in the late 70's the original plan with the C4 was to make it a hardtop in order to facilitate better handling. At the 11th hour before going to market after all the chassis engineering and testing had been done management insisted that the C4 be a targa. By cutting the roof section off it considerably reduced the stiffness of the entire car, and the only way they could get anywhere near the stiffness they had before was to further re-enforce the backbone of the chassis with an extra rail support though the middle. I can tell you from experience that driving the C4 topless makes a big difference to the chassis roll when cornering.
It figures to me that when a Z06 is made its roof would be moulded out with the rest of the space frame and hence take advantage of the stiffness. This would mean that the Z06's frame would have to be made differently, and as a car's frame is primarily the gestalt structure that makes it a car then this would be the argument that would make it stock (ie: singular from the beginning).
Of course this argument can go completely out the window if we go further back to when the space frames were sheets of metal. In that instance I’m screwed.
*hands Master Hiko an expensive imported beer*

Originally Posted by fairladyz_gt-r

I agree~ he ran out of excues to use....FQ400 is better!

Jeez, and I though my argument was full of holes.

[Master Hiko]

Originally Posted by fairladyz_gt-r

I agree~ he ran out of excues to use....FQ400 is better!

i dont think you understood what i meant by the beer thing. i was saying that i couldnt prove Vettribution wrong about the engine so he deserves a beer, not the other way around or that the MR is better.

[ProjectPhantom]

holy f*ck nut evo all the way.... just too damn insane too pass up.

[kman10587]

I agree~ he ran out of excues to use....FQ400 is better!

I suspected he was a dumb ricer before because of his sig - now I'm sure of it.