96 GA 3 sec run/cluster issues - get beer.

[TRWT1EE]

1996 GA 2.4L SE. Re-Po. Ignition may have been punched at one point but ignition switch wiring checks OK. Good overall shape. Most I/P cluster lamps on solid, including Security.

OK – hope you have a little time cause here’s the story. I am a degreed EE and certified mechanic and this is the stupidest thing I have ever seen, Got the GA last fall from a re-po auction. Ran fine all winter except for the annoying seatbelt, airbag, ETS and hi-beam lights on the I/P. And of course, the headlights have a mind of their own and go out unless you have the switch in the ON position – no problem (bad opto is all). Pulled fuses on the underhood fuse panel on occasion to get rid if I/P lamps but they would come back. Always started back up. Finally decided to disconnect battery for a total system re-boot and sure enough, I’m in the Passlock twilight zone. Did the 10 minute ignition ON reset thing and all was back to “normal” (same I/P lights still freaky) but would start and run every time.
Alrighty then, birds chirping, spring comes and all I/P lights go off and are everyone is happy. Until…….
All I/P lights go on solid. Car still starts and runs fine though. So, of course I figure I’ll get those annoying I/P lights off again by pulling a few fuses from the underhood panel to re-boot the systems again. And lo and behold, the thing hasn’t started since.

Symptoms (the DRB reader I use at work is not compatible with this ancient model so no DTC’s – I know…..)

1) When ignition is switched to ON mode, all I/P lights are on solid except low trac and ETS. Low fuel and hi temp lights go out after normal bulb check interval.
2) Crank engine – starts/runs for 3-4 sec’s then cuts out. Check engine light goes out and stays out until ignition is cycled to off then on again. Fuel pump is operating (I bypassed the relay be sure). Injectors being shut down?
3) I have the complete service manual set and after reading just about every page, concluded that this was an instrument cluster failure (no comm) which is very common so I have heard (Cluster is an integral part of the security system).
4) Found a ’96 GA at a local yard that just came in and obtained one of the last remaining used clusters on the planet for 40 bucks (forget about a used ignition). Installed it and exactly the same symptoms/lights.
5) Went through every single re-set/re-programming procedure I have seen on this site and others. Three 10 minute cycles, one 30 minute ON, 30 second OFF cycle, three 30 minute cycles, etc,) Even tried a few of my own – NOGO. Used multiple keys on different trials to eliminate the “worn key” passlock magneto issue. No change whatsoever.
6) Heard of a “miracle” when a guy went through the same thing as I did, re-installed his original cluster and lo and behold, it came back to life. Tried it – Not for me!
7) Bad security module? Who knows?
8) Oh yea – relay clicking from the front grille area for about 20 sec’s when the ignition is switched on.

Anyhow, sorry for the long post but I think it may help a few others, especially if someone has some other ideas. I can see how the GM techs have real trouble fixing this “system” as it seems to be different for each vehicle’s “personality”. Definite re-call material as this is common through 2002 but GM did not step up. I will do my best to escalate this problem through my contacts in Detroit as I know there are way too may out there that have been screwed. However, for now, any suggestions would be appreciated as my son needs to get to his job in order to pay off the astronomical student loan we have been so kind to front him.

Cheers, and if you got this far down – thanks.
JB

[TRWT1EE]

A couple other tidbits I forgot.... Tach and temp gages do not work. Speedo and fuel gage work OK. Custom audio amp and stereo. Discannected during troubleshooting.

Service manual states the "all on" I/P condition could be loss of serial data beteen the cluster and theft module. Anybody know if there is some junction "node" or point that I can get at to check continuity on the tan comm lines? Single grounding point anywhere under there?

[xeroinfinity]

Welcome to AF.

Buy a new or reconditioned cluster, I bet thats the trouble.
A used one will most likly cause the same problem.

Also try the security reset for 11 or more minutes, 3X.

And this is ODB II so your scan tool should read it fine.
If not then you might just have a security issue(loss of serial data or communications error) from the ignition switch being damaged. They are just plastic inside and damage very easily.

Hope that helps.

[TRWT1EE]

xero,

I'll try the reset thing again 3X (I think I did it 3x for 30 minutes already but..). Please check my procedure:

Engage starter - let vehicle start and die.
Leave ignition in ON position for 11+ minutes
Turn ignition to off for 5 seconds min.
Turn ignition to ON for another 11+ minutes
Turn ignition to OFF for 5 sec's min
Turn ignition to on for 11+ minutes
Turn ignition to off for 5+ seconds.
Attempt to start.

I thought at some point the security light starts flashing at some point during this procedure if indeed the security system is at fault. Mine is on solid all the time.

Thanks

[xeroinfinity]

Ok, if your security light hasnt been on or flashing I'd say that it isnt the problem.

Have you replaced the lock cylinder in the ignition switch?
If you havnt I'd try that. If you did replace it and still have issues then it very well could be the whole switch bad, along with your IPC.

Good Luck

[TRWT1EE]

The security light is on but never flashes. It looks like the ignition switch was replaced at some point before I got the car - the wiring looks kind of hokey - crimp/splice connectors all over the place. I'll try messing with that next. Anyhow, does my reset sequence in my previous post look good as far as you know? If I do get a new/rebuilt cluster, will it re-program using the reset sequence or does it have to be done using an ODBII with programming feature?

Thanks for all responses.

[xeroinfinity]

Yes your security relearn is correct in post #4.

And when you replace the IPC you will probly have to do the relearn also, shouldnt need any scan tool.

Gotta love it when someone hacks the wires .

[TRWT1EE]

OK. After countless hours scouring the net, screwing with the ignition switch/passlock system, and talking to Auto EE people, I now am now focused on the PCM (Powertrain Control Module), which is located under the glovebox and is the main brain. It is cutting off the fuel injectors after 3-4 sec's. I have messed with connections and that does not seem to be the problem. The security light never flashes so I have given up on this being a passlock related issue (please respond if you think not). IP guy said that if two clusters were installed as I did and things remained the same after the reprogram dance, the PCM is probably at fault for the X-mas light up of all the IP idiot lights. Just for kicks, I am going to install a third IP cluster tomorrow just to see what happens. Left the battery disconnected for 3 days while out of town and no change after re-connect. Original Cluster re-installed after failure of used replacement.

Question of the day..... If I sprung for a new OEM PCM at the dealer, I know I would have to get it programmed for many $$ there.
(and tow this POS there to boot). What if I got a salvage unit that was good...would I still have to re-program using dealer codes for this particular vehicle or would it be happy?

Thanks for all responses.....

[TRWT1EE]

Eureka!!!! Finally traced the problem to the airbag control module that is located under the passenger seat. My GA has the incessent leaking problem and it was soaked under the seat which caused the airbag module and connector to corrode. This totally screwed up the serial comm. link to everything else. Took the seat out, disconnected the airbag module, and the beast came back to life and is running fine, with the original I/P cluster, theft module, and PCM, and ignition/passlock. Be sure the pull the airbag fuse and disconnect the firing circuit connector under the glovebox before screwing with the system. You must replace the module and connector if you want your airbags back on line. I am running fine with the system disconnected. I now have two (probably good) clusters in case anyone needs one (they will be on E-bay soon). Many thanks to Southern Electric in VA - very helpful. They will test your cluster for about 15 bucks and rebuild it if need be. Thanks for the responses xero - this remedy needs to be posted in a prominent spot on the site.

[xeroinfinity]

With a ABS capable scan tool that probly would have shown an DTC error, like a U1198- Loss of serial communications for class 2 devices. ...
This is a typical problem , rusting ABS modules, even on the 99+ grand ams, leakers for sure!

Glad you figured it out.



ps- i think you can rate this thread at the top.

[TRWT1EE]

Xero,

Yea, the code may have been spit out but this thing has some other electrical issues that are logging faults, which added to the confusion. Modified exhaust, ABS work has been done. Who knows what else. I'm just glad I didn't take all these codes and start replacing good modules to no avail. It runs... A couple lights still on the dash, but I don't care as long as it starts and runs (my 20 year old son needs to get to work!).

TRWizgoinstrong,,,,,,

JB