"American" vs. "Import"

[zx2guy]

i havent noticed this much in our topic... and its something ive been curious with. american motor companies have thier hands in many ... well "foreign" companies. and that makes us more global as stated earlier.... but here's my question... how much is america exporting in vehicles? we import and build here import/foreign car makes... are we exporting vehicles as much as we are bringing in? i mean economics 101 states an economy is doing well when either they export more then they import or they export greater amounts (in value) finished goods then the raw materials they bring in.

[pimprolla112]

Hell yeah il agree that AWD is a huge advantage, you would get a damn near perfect launch every shot. Ive been working with FI products for over 2 years now, you wouldnt believe the idiots who want 10 more hp to break 500whp, and when they dyno they dont understand that the cars sitting still so your not getting the full potential of the intercooler. Its funny how much they will spend to make 20more hp.

Oh yeah 1 psi can be 10 hp on one car where as it might be 35hp on another car. Variations can be amzing as far as numbers go from car to car one car with the same engine with 5psi can make 30 more hp than the other with the same setup.

[blakscorpion21]

Originally Posted by Broke_as_****

I don't see that considering:

The fully revamped Mustang is selling very good
The Camaro is going to be back
The Ford GT is running with European cars of twice it's cost
The GTO came back and will be back again*
The Challenger is going to be reintroduced
The Charger has been brought back, though with four doors
The Corvette, arguably one of the best values in the history of cars, is in the mix with cars four or five times more expensive

The US domestic market is growing and seems to be set to continue to grow, it's hardly declining. The youth market in big cities may be very import centralized but much of the youth market else where and just about the entire older adult population is very domestic biased.

*To my understanding the current GTO is being discontinued because the Holden car that it is based off of is being discontinued. A new GTO built off the same rear drive platform being used for the new Camaro and is scheduled to come out at the same time or a year later.

yea, the new mustangs are great. the new camaro will be very very ugly. forget the ford gt, the vette zo6 is on par for half the price. the gto is just a souped up grand am, i was not impressed and i hope it doesnt come back without a serious makeover. the challenger is just a gimmic, taking an old car, keeping the exact same look and putting in a big engine, wooptie doo. the charger is a discrace to all things american. and as for the corvette, i couldnt agree more. amazing machine.

[Broke_as_****]

Originally Posted by blakscorpion21

yea, the new mustangs are great. the new camaro will be very very ugly. forget the ford gt, the vette zo6 is on par for half the price. the gto is just a souped up grand am, i was not impressed and i hope it doesnt come back without a serious makeover. the challenger is just a gimmic, taking an old car, keeping the exact same look and putting in a big engine, wooptie doo. the charger is a discrace to all things american. and as for the corvette, i couldnt agree more. amazing machine.

With the Camaro you have to remember that looks are very subjective, I've met people that love it, don't ask me to explain that because I can't, I think the basic body style is alright but alot of the details like the brake lights are stupid. And whether is this really a good thing or not, it will probably sell pretty good just because it's a Camaro, that and they have some pretty intense engines lined up for it so the performance should be pretty high.

The Ford GT is not to be discredited because the Vette is a better value, it is still an amazing machine.

The GTO is an entirely different car despite it's looks. I've seen them in action and I've never seen a Grand Am perform like it can. And it should be getting a pretty big make over considering how many were less than thrilled with it's economy car looks. That was mostly because that was how the Holden Manaro that it was based off of looks.

I don't see how you can condem the Challenger for being a new car with an old look and a big engine when you praise the Mustang for being essentially the same idea.

The way the Charger has been marketed, from what I've read, is that most people that want a big engine coupe really need a sedan. This is because they are targeting an older audience that has a family. It's not the Charger of old because it wasn't meant to be, the Challenger is going to fill that slot.

And like it was pointed out earlier, the Cobalt SS and the SRT-4 are set to beat FWD imports at their own game. How they will fair as the years go by remains to be seen but they are popular and do well in head to head competitions.

Originally Posted by zx2guy

i havent noticed this much in our topic... and its something ive been curious with. american motor companies have thier hands in many ... well "foreign" companies. and that makes us more global as stated earlier.... but here's my question... how much is america exporting in vehicles? we import and build here import/foreign car makes... are we exporting vehicles as much as we are bringing in? i mean economics 101 states an economy is doing well when either they export more then they import or they export greater amounts (in value) finished goods then the raw materials they bring in.

I don't believe that the US exports more than is imported but there are alot more American cars overseas then you might think. For example the Focus is sold world wide and has consistently put up 800,000+ a year in gross sales with I believe less than half that being in the US. Also you have to remember that there are alot of non-US models being built and sold by American car companies overseas.

Also the term "import" is kind of subjective, as has been discussed. Many of the more widely available forgeign cars sold in the US are built there as well.

[zx2guy]

i could be wrong but i just dont see a dodge ram on the highways and winding streets of england. its hard for me to see. the porshe is different because of its power, but an ungainly sized truck/suv.... no. or in the streets of japan. as funny as that would be, a big ass truck around all those k cars, and sport coupes. it almost makes me wonder though if other counties see our cars and trucks like we see porshe, or toyota.

[blakscorpion21]

Originally Posted by Broke_as_****

With the Camaro you have to remember that looks are very subjective, I've met people that love it, don't ask me to explain that because I can't, I think the basic body style is alright but alot of the details like the brake lights are stupid. And whether is this really a good thing or not, it will probably sell pretty good just because it's a Camaro, that and they have some pretty intense engines lined up for it so the performance should be pretty high.

The Ford GT is not to be discredited because the Vette is a better value, it is still an amazing machine.

The GTO is an entirely different car despite it's looks. I've seen them in action and I've never seen a Grand Am perform like it can. And it should be getting a pretty big make over considering how many were less than thrilled with it's economy car looks. That was mostly because that was how the Holden Manaro that it was based off of looks.

I don't see how you can condem the Challenger for being a new car with an old look and a big engine when you praise the Mustang for being essentially the same idea.

The way the Charger has been marketed, from what I've read, is that most people that want a big engine coupe really need a sedan. This is because they are targeting an older audience that has a family. It's not the Charger of old because it wasn't meant to be, the Challenger is going to fill that slot.

And like it was pointed out earlier, the Cobalt SS and the SRT-4 are set to beat FWD imports at their own game. How they will fair as the years go by remains to be seen but they are popular and do well in head to head competitions.

Also the term "import" is kind of subjective, as has been discussed. Many of the more widely available forgeign cars sold in the US are built there as well.

even if the gto is drastically changed it will probably be more boring retro styling. when the mustang did it it was cool, when every other american car company starts doing it, it looks stupid and cliche.


again i praise the mustang cause it has a new look on an old style. also it was the first to do it. its like everyone is sayong "hey lets copy ford". the challenger is essentially the same car as the origional(looks wise) at least the mustang looks a little diffrent.


as for the ss and the srt-4 i agree they are great cars, especially for the money. dodge had a good thing going with the srt-4, but what did they do? ruined it by turning into an ugly box. sure the caliper srt-4 may be fast straight line but it loooks rediculous and weighs entireley too much. and as far as beating the imports at their own game, i wouldnt go that far. imports and domestics have never really played the same game. when you buy a domestic you are paying for an engine and a body. when you buy an import you are paying for a little more refinement and style, but hey who cares about refinement? i know i dont. either way even in preformance measures a 00+ celica gt-s will not only outrun a cobalt(with a good driver and i know the reviews wont say so but it is possible to run a 14.8 on a stock 6-speed) but the celica is more refined, more reliable, more fuel efficient, and has more room for improvement(being n/a, slap on a turbo and kiss the cobalt goodbye) all this and it is still competitivley priced with the ss. dont get me wrong, i love the new ss, id definitlety like to have one. im just giving a little comparison.

[kman10587]

Originally Posted by blakscorpion21

either way even in preformance measures a 00+ celica gt-s will not only outrun a cobalt(with a good driver and i know the reviews wont say so but it is possible to run a 14.8 on a stock 6-speed) but the celica is more refined, more reliable, more fuel efficient, and has more room for improvement(being n/a, slap on a turbo and kiss the cobalt goodbye) all this and it is still competitivley priced with the ss. dont get me wrong, i love the new ss, id definitlety like to have one. im just giving a little comparison.

You had me going there until you mention "slapping a turbo on" the GT-S. You can't simply slap a turbo onto an N/A motor that's making 100 hp/liter, unless you wanna blow the motor to pieces before you can even finish a quarter mile. You'd have to seriously lower the compression to even think about running forced induction on a Celica GT-S, and at that point, you're better off starting with a lower compression motor, or just buying an already-FI car, like the Cobalt SS.

Don't get me wrong, the Celica GT-S is a great car, and worthy competition for the Cobalt SS, but it's not the most ideal tuning platform out there for drag racing. If you really want a turbo 7th gen. Celica, get a Celica GT and start from there.

[Broke_as_****]

Originally Posted by zx2guy

i could be wrong but i just dont see a dodge ram on the highways and winding streets of england. its hard for me to see. the porshe is different because of its power, but an ungainly sized truck/suv.... no. or in the streets of japan. as funny as that would be, a big ass truck around all those k cars, and sport coupes. it almost makes me wonder though if other counties see our cars and trucks like we see porshe, or toyota.

I think brings up a good point. There are a lot of American cars on the road in other countries but these tend to be the econo cars that are built any where. Perhaps if you were to narrow it to very distinctly American cars like a Hemi Ram or an Escalade (ugh...I can't believe I just mentioned an Escalade) then no, there isn't many overseas. That can be expanded to other companies as well I guess, like many of the Japan only cars that require no second look to know their origin that are only sold in country. One thing I have found from my travels though is that people the world over (some people, not all, naturally) do love them muscle cars long time.

Originally Posted by blakscorpion21

again i praise the mustang cause it has a new look on an old style. also it was the first to do it. its like everyone is sayong "hey lets copy ford". the challenger is essentially the same car as the origional(looks wise) at least the mustang looks a little diffrent.

That I have a hard time believing, if for no other reason than there is very few "new" ideas in the world let alone the highly marketed automotive industry. The Challenger bears a more similar style to the original then the Mustang but there are quite a few differences, mostly stuff that people didn't like about the original, like the long front overhand the old one had. Anyway I can't condem the Challenger just because it probably was nothing more than Dodge riding the retro coat tails. It's good looking, promising car and while the idea may not be fresh it won't mean the product isn't.

[blakscorpion21]

Originally Posted by kman10587

You had me going there until you mention "slapping a turbo on" the GT-S. You can't simply slap a turbo onto an N/A motor that's making 100 hp/liter, unless you wanna blow the motor to pieces before you can even finish a quarter mile. You'd have to seriously lower the compression to even think about running forced induction on a Celica GT-S, and at that point, you're better off starting with a lower compression motor, or just buying an already-FI car, like the Cobalt SS.

Don't get me wrong, the Celica GT-S is a great car, and worthy competition for the Cobalt SS, but it's not the most ideal tuning platform out there for drag racing. If you really want a turbo 7th gen. Celica, get a Celica GT and start from there.

yea, true. but there are stage one kits that will run without internal modifications. they run low psi but even on that it still puts out impressive numbers.

[Nayr747]

Originally Posted by Broke_as_****

Perhaps if you were to narrow it to very distinctly American cars like a Hemi Ram or an Escalade (ugh...I can't believe I just mentioned an Escalade) then no, there isn't many overseas.

There aren't many SUVs period overseas, well at least in Europe. The unreasonably large "off road" vehicle is an American thing.

Originally Posted by blakscorpion21

but the celica is more refined, more reliable, more fuel efficient,

That's because it weighs 300 lbs less than the Cobalt SS. Low weight is the #1 most important thing in a car.

[blakscorpion21]

Originally Posted by Nayr747

Low weight is the #1 most important thing in a car.

tell that to domestic auto makers.

[Nayr747]

Originally Posted by blakscorpion21

tell that to domestic auto makers.

Seriously. And all the manufacturers putting money in new fuel saving technologies too. They could just reduce their weight or lessen hp a little and get the same fuel savings. Average mpg is worse now than it was 30 years ago! Come on people. But yeah, I'm convinced that the weight of the vehicle is 99.9% of what determines mpg. My 3,000 lb car gets 24 average, my dad's 6,000 lb SUV gets around 12 average. What do you know, it's exactly half for a car that weighs exactly twice as much.

[blakscorpion21]

leightweight=better gas mileage, faster acceleration, and better handling. whay havent they figured this out yet. instead they have this idea that bigger is better. look at the lotus elise, it is faster, gets better gas mileage, and handles way better than most cars in its price range. why? because it weighs 2000lbs. oh well i guess you cant change the domestic peoples minds.

[k3smostwanted]

Originally Posted by blakscorpion21

leightweight=better gas mileage, faster acceleration, and better handling. whay havent they figured this out yet. instead they have this idea that bigger is better. look at the lotus elise, it is faster, gets better gas mileage, and handles way better than most cars in its price range. why? because it weighs 2000lbs. oh well i guess you cant change the domestic peoples minds.

let me ask you this, could you imagine the hell that american car companies would catch if they started to lighten up their mustangs, camaros, etc and put V6's in them. american car companies do well in the US because of the large displacement V8's they make and the stigma associated with them in this country.

why lighten up your car built deliberately to attract american buyers when you can create a computer system to drop half it's cylinders when trying to preserve gas?

also remember, some of these american V8's are competing if not beating the competition's smaller displacement engines in efficiency, producing the same power.

when speaking of SUV's and Truck's...the design of these vehicles makes it dramatically harder to create good gas mileage because of many reasons. aerodynamics being a large factor, low end gearing, low end torque production, and all the way down to how the drivetrain is built to fulfill the vehicles job.

if you notice, some of the competition are offering 4 cylinders and V6's with lacking power to give the owner the fulfillment of driving an SUV without the need of towing, hauling, or anything the vehicle was originally designed. american companies are also offering smaller displacement motors to compete with these but it is just recently that Import Manufacturers have gotten into competing with american companies at their own game, building a heavy duty truck. these same attempts aren't doing any better in gas mileage than american companies.

i think, mostly every manufactuer is on the same page. if they werent they wouldnt be in business or they working extremely hard to get on that page. the only companies that arent on this age are smaller companies that advertise to niche markets and not overall sales.

i probably should have jumped in this conversation alot sooner but reguardless this is my 2 cents.

[Nayr747]

Originally Posted by k3smostwanted

let me ask you this, could you imagine the hell that american car companies would catch if they started to lighten up their mustangs, camaros, etc and put V6's in them. american car companies do well in the US because of the large displacement V8's they make and the stigma associated with them in this country.

why lighten up your car built deliberately to attract american buyers when you can create a computer system to drop half it's cylinders when trying to preserve gas?

also remember, some of these american V8's are competing if not beating the competition's smaller displacement engines in efficiency, producing the same power.

when speaking of SUV's and Truck's...the design of these vehicles makes it dramatically harder to create good gas mileage because of many reasons. aerodynamics being a large factor, low end gearing, low end torque production, and all the way down to how the drivetrain is built to fulfill the vehicles job.

if you notice, some of the competition are offering 4 cylinders and V6's with lacking power to give the owner the fulfillment of driving an SUV without the need of towing, hauling, or anything the vehicle was originally designed. american companies are also offering smaller displacement motors to compete with these but it is just recently that Import Manufacturers have gotten into competing with american companies at their own game, building a heavy duty truck. these same attempts aren't doing any better in gas mileage than american companies.

i think, mostly every manufactuer is on the same page. if they werent they wouldnt be in business or they working extremely hard to get on that page. the only companies that arent on this age are smaller companies that advertise to niche markets and not overall sales.

i probably should have jumped in this conversation alot sooner but reguardless this is my 2 cents.

No one's saying they have to replace their 8 cylinders with 4 or 6. They just need to lower their weight. And a lower displacement motor like an I4 can make the same power as the higher displacement 8 cylinder by using a turbo or supercharger, for the same price. If you look at cars by year, market, and price, turbocharged I4's run times that are the same or better than the V8's , with a few exeptions of course.

But anyway why wouldn't people like a lowe weight car? There are no disadvantages, aside from running things over when they get in your way .