What is drifting and drag racing?

[NSX]

Has it ever occured to you why formula 1 cars [essentially the quickest & most corner oriented series] are setup to grip race instead of drift?

[MarioSpaghetti]

SilviaDrifter, I really like the video. You are obviously at a higher level. I'm at 100% and I would like to try drifting. I'm obviously pretty decent in the rally races but I really don't know where to start on tarmac. Can you give me some starter setups for cars and tracks? I noticed in the Arcade section there is a choice for drifting. Is that what you are doing?
Mike

[gigglesnirt]

no that option for drifting doesn't help you if you want to actually drift like in the videos, you will want to make your own car and set it up, srry i dont wanna steal silviadrifter's quetion so i'll let him do the rest.........

[Silviadrifter]

If you want to learn how to drift well, you need to learn (and understand) drift techniques:

http://www.driftclub.com/techniques.htm

That's just a basic outline on the most popular drift techniques....

The best way to start drifting is to take a stock car, throw some sim tires on (PD put them in the game for drifting), and practice practice practice. Keep doing laps until you feel comfortable with it. This teaches you good technique, because you can't use the power to start a drift with a low power car, you have to use good technique... Only after you have become comfortable with the techniques, should you start adding HP, Suspension, etc.....

When you do start upgrading, there are some simple "rules of thumb" that will help:

Spring rates: front tighter than the rear (I usually use a spring rate of around 12.0, 9.0)
Brake balance: rear biased (I usually set it at around 13, 24)
Camber angle: front, about 1 to 2 degrees greater angle than the rear (I usually set it up from 3.0, 1.5 - 4.5, 2.5)
Stabilizers: I usually set them to 1, because they are counterproductive for drifting (in GT3)

Also, you need to remember that drifting a FR car is very different than drifting an AWD car. With FR you need to use:

Throttle control
Countersteer control
braking control

With AWD it's a simplified process, but is still challenging. With AWD you need to use:

Full throttle
Braking (foot brake, and E-brake)

If anyone has anymore questions, just ask.....

[MarioSpaghetti]

Thanks. I think I do understand drifting. In my younger days (late 60s and early 70s), I used to be the king of the parking brake with my bug-eye Sprite. I could do a parking brake turn between rows of cars just a little wider than the length of my car.

I use a brake balance bar on my dirt track car (I've run approximately 400 race nights in my career with 65 wins, 5 track championships and 5 runnerup finishes). I've also given 3 dirt track chassis seminars that had at least 50 guys show up to listen. Finished second in the A feature last night at age 57. Not bragging, just explaining that I do understand the dynamics of drifting. I just need a little help with the techniques of GT3. Do you set the AYC and traction control to 0? I hadn't thought about the Sim tires. That might be the answer I was overlooking. In real life, real racing tires (especially radials) have a very narrow slip angle and if you exceed that generate very littls bite. So if you exceed the "circle of traction" with the rear tires, there is a huge difference between the traction of the front and rear (which have not exceeded the "circle of traction") to the extent that it would seem very difficult to maintain a slide. The Sim tires probably accept a higher slip angle.

I'll have to try your setups. The only question I have is the stiffer front springs. In the real world, and in grip racing on GT3, you stiffen the rear to loosen the car up. But I'll try it. Thanks. You are the only one I've seen who seems to actually understand drifting on GT3.
Mike

[Silviadrifter]

Originally Posted by MarioSpaghetti

Thanks. I think I do understand drifting. In my younger days (late 60s and early 70s), I used to be the king of the parking brake with my bug-eye Sprite. I could do a parking brake turn between rows of cars just a little wider than the length of my car.

I use a brake balance bar on my dirt track car (I've run approximately 400 race nights in my career with 65 wins, 5 track championships and 5 runnerup finishes). I've also given 3 dirt track chassis seminars that had at least 50 guys show up to listen. Finished second in the A feature last night at age 57. Not bragging, just explaining that I do understand the dynamics of drifting. I just need a little help with the techniques of GT3. Do you set the AYC and traction control to 0? I hadn't thought about the Sim tires. That might be the answer I was overlooking. In real life, real racing tires (especially radials) have a very narrow slip angle and if you exceed that generate very littls bite. So if you exceed the "circle of traction" with the rear tires, there is a huge difference between the traction of the front and rear (which have not exceeded the "circle of traction") to the extent that it would seem very difficult to maintain a slide. The Sim tires probably accept a higher slip angle.

I'll have to try your setups. The only question I have is the stiffer front springs. In the real world, and in grip racing on GT3, you stiffen the rear to loosen the car up. But I'll try it. Thanks. You are the only one I've seen who seems to actually understand drifting on GT3.
Mike

Oh, well I'm glad to see an intelligent racing enthusiast on these boards..... Sim tires not only have less grip then normal tires, but also change the physics a bit, to make for more realistic control.... However, Drifting can be done, in GT3, with any tire, you just need to match the HP with the tire, in a natural progression.... For example:

stock to 300hp = Sims
350hp to 500hp = Normals or Sports

Anything above that use racing tires, like for example, a 900hp Supra on super soft tires..... However, I still prefer low HP with sims, as it feels the most realistic, and gives me the most enjoyment.....

As for the physics in GT3...... Real life settings and tuning transfers quite well to the game. PD have done a great job of making a realistic driving simulator, and I have learned everything I know from real life tuning/technique/settings......

About the spring rates..... With drifting, you tighten the front springs more than the rear, for a few reasons...... one, it turns the front into a pivot point, so the rear can swing around that point..... As long as you use propper countersteer control (tracing the turn, only with RWD) this makes the car controllable...... Also, it makes the rear end a little less stable, making it easier to lose traction, and thus, begin the drift.....

In real life, real racing tires (especially radials) have a very narrow slip angle and if you exceed that generate very littls bite. So if you exceed the "circle of traction" with the rear tires, there is a huge difference between the traction of the front and rear (which have not exceeded the "circle of traction") to the extent that it would seem very difficult to maintain a slide. The Sim tires probably accept a higher slip angle.

You have to remember that when drifting RWD vehicles, you want the front tires to have as much traction as possible, because they are controlling the direction of the vehicle, in a drift..... The rear wheels control the speed and angle...... This does not apply as much to AWD drifting, because you do not need countersteer.... The front wheels (being powered) do the same job, that countersteering normally would, as you can see, in my "Countersteer Zero" video...... Furthermore, the sim tires do indeed accept a greater slip angle, because of the more realistic physics system, that they are programed with.....
I almost forgot... Always turn the TCS and ASM off, for obvious reasons..... As for the AYC, it can be adjusted to get rid of weeknesses in AWD vehicles, but I usually just buy a VCD, and adjust that.....

[gigglesnirt]

actually right when i get the car, i mod it like hell, and put every part i can on it, and then adjust the settings, i do tons of things tho, and every car i have handles different, and when i say different, i dont mean like every car is different in some way, these are like crazy, like with my chaser i use normal tires, with not throttle sim thingy, and no traction control, and torque all the way up, and its my favorite car at about 756 hp, or somethign like that, i also have a 180sx, which is pretty slow, butreally good drifter, and can hold up just like the chaser just not as fast through turns.....im babbling to much srry