Octaine equivlent of Nitro Methane

[TheSilentChamber]

Sorry to burst your bubble kid, but your not going to think of anything that hasnt been done before just by using a differnt fuel or changing a minor detail.

[kachok25]

Originally Posted by beef_bourito

I don't think you should use it on a road car, at leased not too often. the fumes are highly toxic so whatever you do don't idle using nitromethane. if you do set up a nitro system for your car, let us know with pics and videos.

I know nitro is alot more resistant to knock than gasoline because it withstands 30+psi in top fuel cars. If you just inject it into your car as well as gasoline though, it's not necessarily going to raise the octane rating of your fuel, if you have temps above the ignition temps of gasoline, the gas is going to ignite, then it's going to ignite the nitromethane. it might reduce knock a bit but unless you're running pure nitro, i don't think it will be very much. someone else probably knows alot more about this than me though, so take their word instead of mine.

By mixing a low octaine and a high octaine fuel you do raise your avrage octain rating of the low grade fuel which raises your pre-ignition temps, which is exactly what I want. The mixing of two liquids that do not react with each other on the molecular leval will result in a mixture that has the properties of both in proportion to the percentage of which they were mixed, me and my chemestery teacher had it out as to any exceptions to this rule, it applies to all liquids, and vapors too I think.

[kachok25]

Originally Posted by TheSilentChamber

Sorry to burst your bubble kid, but your not going to think of anything that hasnt been done before just by using a differnt fuel or changing a minor detail.

You are not busting any bubble kid I know it has been done before. I am not trying to break any new ground now if you have somthing to contribute to this dicussion please say it, if all you are going to do is talk $hit go away the internet is full of chumps like and we don't need one here. Go play on a porn site or somthing.

[kachok25]

BTW how is your worlds largest vibrator coming LOL

[TheSilentChamber]

Your problems are going to lie in getting your a/f ration right and big problems with internal engine corrosion.

By the way, the vibrator thread was an inside joke- that you obviously did not understand.

[kachok25]

Originally Posted by TheSilentChamber

Your problems are going to lie in getting your a/f ration right and big problems with internal engine corrosion.

By the way, the vibrator thread was an inside joke- that you obviously did not understand.

I don't think anyone understood, I did not see anyone laughing, at leased not with you LOL. Ok I am not one for petty fudes lets end this now and get back to the topic if I want to blow up an engine being stupid it's no skin off your back right? So lets just stick to the facts OK.

[curtis73]

Do I have to close another thread? Don't make me stop this car! Let's keep to the topic. Flames are for PMs.

Kachok25, your question is valid, but SilentChamber and the others are correct, too. Its probably been done, but the hundreds of pitfalls associated with it make it unfeasible.

So, back to the original engineering aspect of it, let's find the actual octane rating of Nitro and then do some math. No problem bench racing it and using new information to expand your knowledge, but let's stay realistic. Its not going to really work on the street.

I have seen staged injectors firing Methanol for high boost situations. A guy kept his 10.2:1 in his NSX and used two VATN aerochargers for about 10 psi. In order to keep it in one piece he piggybacked a simple injector computer and six nozzles to start laying on the alcohol when boost hit 4 psi or so.

[kachok25]

That is really cool, all I needed was a piggyback ECU, six injectors,a small tank , and a fuelpump. That would be one of the best mods doller for doller around if you figure that alcohol can handle about 15psi more boost than 92 oct gas. Or about 7psi more with an even amount of both at full boost, that would allow about up to one bar on a high CR engine! How much would an intall like that run? I imagine it would require some fine tuning at the dyno though. Was there any other special mods that he had to do to optimaze the alcohol injection setup?

[curtis73]

His install was over $10k if I remember correctly. It requires a completely separate dedicated fuel system, including tank, lines, sensors, computer, injectors, welding modifications to the intake, etc. All of the issues of EFI times two.

Other than that its basically figuring out the math and making a base map for the alky.

[kachok25]

I think I could do that install for way cheeper than that I have seen complete fuel injector conversions including manifold for 2k. But I guess that is assuming that I do all my custom fabracation and fine tuing by meself. I wounder if anybody sells aftermarket kits for just this purpose.

[kachok25]

Actualy now that I think about it I could probably attach a high flow nosle onto a water injection system ($500), it is boost actuated, now I just need to find a way to make it flow enough (some of them run 150psi), I seem to forget my forumula how much alcohol per minute would I need to sustain 100hp?
Update: Cooling mist makes a twin nosle kit with 150psi of pressure, their nosels are rated for up to 18gph so assuming that the pump can keep up with twins I could flow 36gph how much HP could I support with that? I am not sure one pump can keep up but I could intsall a second pump I just don't know if I can make it run off the same computer. It would cost me around $400 with twin pumps. Is there somthing that I am missing here or is this a relativly safe idea?

[curtis73]

You could guess, but you'll be incredibly rich under low boost and incredibly lean under tall boost. You can't just inject massive quantities or wait for a pump to build pressure. That half a second could melt pistons.

You need the whole thing; computer, fuel map, boost-referenced pressure regulator, MAP sensor, the works. It has to be spot on for all conditions, not just a flood that hits the middle.

[kachok25]

Originally Posted by curtis73

You could guess, but you'll be incredibly rich under low boost and incredibly lean under tall boost. You can't just inject massive quantities or wait for a pump to build pressure. That half a second could melt pistons.

You need the whole thing; computer, fuel map, boost-referenced pressure regulator, MAP sensor, the works. It has to be spot on for all conditions, not just a flood that hits the middle.

Oh no they claim that it is completly variable, it is a computer controled (check out the vari-cool computer control) sytem complete with pressure sensor, it is not a one speed setup. Besides even if it did take a half a sec to presurize (which it is supposed to be instant) while the turbos were spooling up the ECU could be programed to give it a little extra gas to compensate. By time the turbos reach full boost it could already have the alcohol flowing. You gatta remember this system was designed for high boost aplacations. Here I'll give you the link and then tell me if you think thei system is too flimsey for reliable use http://www.coolingmist.com/categorie...n=set&res=1280
If I did go with the whole fuel injection system could I use the regular sensors and use an ECU with water/alke injection already calabrated into it? I know they make them. Oh BTW I would not be using this system much just for the occasinal trip to the track so running a little rich would not be a prob. And do you know how much alcohol I would need to run to make an extra 100hp? Would 18lbs an hour be a good enough flow rate. If not the pump is rated for 1.5 GPM I would think that would easly be enough for almost any applacation.

[kachok25]

Duh my bad they go up to 18gal per hou not 18lbs per hour. Two of those would accamadate just about any injection needs I have They claim it is instant, and that the computer is programable with 10 fixed algorithms which is as accurate as I would need on a 1/4 mile run I think. Would there be any downsides to using this as opposed to a custom piggyback controled EFI system? Oh and one more thing would the EFI have to be built for methonol? I know parts built for gas don't like it much.

[beef_bourito]

methanol eats away at rubber so you'd have to raplace anything with rubber.