Friends Car Vandalized

[UncleBob]

180* F is considered the minimum by most. This is enough to remove condensation.....slowly

The highest allowed....well, depends on the application. oil/air cooled bikes see 300* F now and then, even higher, for motors that have been played with/are messed up. The biggest issue with the higher oil temps is oil break down. The higher it is, the quicker it breaks down. If you have crappy oil, such temps could cause the oil to break down very rapidly.

I don't think most cars run anywhere near that though. Not a common thing people check.

[beef_bourito]

Originally Posted by GreyGoose006

oil can get above 200*, and i'd say 200*F is pretty hot. thats about 96*C for you metric folk.
i thought around 250* was normal

96*C doesn't even boil water.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by waldorftbeagle

I have a friend who just found out that a teenager at his school vandalized his car. This punk poured a whole quart of engine flush in my friends motor last week "Or so he has been bragging" My friend has been driving his car like normal, it is a new 2006 Chevy AVEO his Dad bought him. My friend is afraid to take it to a garage or tell his Dad. Will driving around with this engine flush in his car damage anything? If so, should he and I change the oil ourselves and say nothing about it?

That sounds and smells kinda fishie.
If it actually happened it sould be reported to the police and insurance company and to his parents.
If any damage happened to it it wouldbe covered under comp insurance.
And like said the oil sould be changed and and he should have a sample of the oil sent off to be checked.

[Gohan Ryu]

As mentioned earlier engine flush will break down the oils viscosity - even if the flush evaporates the oil is no longer molecularly sound. The molecular structure and properties of the oil don't return to normal once the flush is evaporated.

...and engine flush has been known to dislodge sludge in the engine...sludge which accumulates in the oil pan and gets sucked up and clogs the oil pump.

Who the fu(k cares if daddy finds out? He'll be more pissed if the car throws a rod because there's no oil - especially if he finds out you knew about it.

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by Gohan Ryu

As mentioned earlier engine flush will break down the oils viscosity - even if the flush evaporates the oil is no longer molecularly sound. The molecular structure and properties of the oil don't return to normal once the flush is evaporated.

I doubt it'd break down the oil molecules. I think it just dilutes the oil which reduces the viscosity.

[Gohan Ryu]

Originally Posted by KiwiBacon

I doubt it'd break down the oil molecules. I think it just dilutes the oil which reduces the viscosity.

Engine flush is designed to breakdown the long carbon-chain molecules found in a petroleum product such as oil. That's how it works.

The ONLY way to change an oils viscosity is to change it's molecular structure - whether by heat or by chemical reaction to engine flush. You can't "dilute" oil with something that doesn't change it molecularly, such as water. Oil and water don't mix and can be seperated easily because the molecular structure of the oil remains intact.

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by Gohan Ryu

The ONLY way to change an oils viscosity is to change it's molecular structure - whether by heat or by chemical reaction to engine flush. You can't "dilute" oil with something that doesn't change it molecularly, such as water. Oil and water don't mix and can be seperated easily because the molecular structure of the oil remains intact.

No you can dilute oil and it reduces it's viscosity

Take some heavy weight oil, mix in some lighter weight oil and see what the result is.

Noone but you has mentioned water.

[GreyGoose006]

but engine flush is just that... REALLY light weight oil like stuff with a LOT of detergents.
i dont see what the big problem is.
people are saying he should have the oil sent to a LAB and be CHECKED???
fine. do it if it makes you feel better, but CHANGE THE FKUCER... and be done with it.
thats my opinion.
really, why risk engine damage? if a quart of engine flush was poured in, it would do some serious damage if not treated.

[Gohan Ryu]

Originally Posted by KiwiBacon

No you can dilute oil and it reduces it's viscosity

I never said you can't. But whatever you dilute it with has to change the molecular properties of the oil to change it's viscosity.

Originally Posted by KiwiBacon

Take some heavy weight oil, mix in some lighter weight oil and see what the result is.

You should try this for yourself...the two oils will not blend - the lighter oil will float on top of the heavier oil. That is not diluting if the two liquids aren't blending. I mentioned water as an example, but your example of two different oils proves the same point. A simple example is salad dressing - olive oil and vinegar. They don't blend, that's why you have to keep shaking the bottle.

Originally Posted by GreyGoose006

but engine flush is just that... REALLY light weight oil like stuff with a LOT of detergents.

Engine flush isn't an oil - oils are lubricants. Engine flush is almost the exact opposite of a lubricant - it is a solvent.

Lubricants and solvents are two different things.

The point isn't really worth arguing...believe what you will...but I suggest you try your oil experiment for youself.

[beef_bourito]

Originally Posted by Gohan Ryu

I never said you can't. But whatever you dilute it with has to change the molecular properties of the oil to change it's viscosity.

what do you mean by the molecular properties? do you mean the atomic/molecular structure (how molecules stack up with eachother)? if that's what you mean then whenever you dissolve anything it changes the molecular structure

Originally Posted by Gohan Ryu

A simple example is salad dressing - olive oil and vinegar. They don't blend, that's why you have to keep shaking the bottle.

this example is irrelevant to the discussion because oils and acids are different. oils contain no polar bonds whereas acids do.

Originally Posted by Gohan Ryu

Engine flush isn't an oil - oils are lubricants. Engine flush is almost the exact opposite of a lubricant - it is a solvent.

exactly so it'll dissolve things, like oil, carbon, etc.

Originally Posted by Gohan Ryu

Engine flush is designed to breakdown the long carbon-chain molecules found in a petroleum product such as oil. That's how it works.

if this is true then it's not being used as a solvent, it's being used as a reactant.

Originally Posted by Gohan Ryu

The ONLY way to change an oils viscosity is to change it's molecular structure - whether by heat or by chemical reaction to engine flush. You can't "dilute" oil with something that doesn't change it molecularly, such as water. Oil and water don't mix and can be seperated easily because the molecular structure of the oil remains intact.

oil and water don't mix because water is a polar molecule but oil is non-polar. and you can dilute oil with something that doesn't change it "molecularly" if you mean it doesn't break it down. just because water doesn't dissolve it doesn't mean it can't be dissolved.

Originally Posted by Gohan Ryu

As mentioned earlier engine flush will break down the oils viscosity - even if the flush evaporates the oil is no longer molecularly sound. The molecular structure and properties of the oil don't return to normal once the flush is evaporated.

if it's a solvent like you once said, then it dissolves the oil, if the engine flush is evaporated then the oil will be normal. take salt, dissolve it in water, evaporate the water, what's left in the pan? salt. just plain old NaCl, just the way it was before you added it to the water. now if it reacts or breaks down the oil, then you will not be able to evaporate the engine flush because it will no longer exist, it will have reacted with the oil and is no longer the same chemical.

also, you can't "break down the oils viscosity" you can break down the oil, you can change its viscosity by dissolving things in it or dissolving it into other things, you can change the viscosity by changing the surroundings (ie temperature, pressure humidity, etc) but you can't break down a property.

[beef_bourito]

Originally Posted by GreyGoose006

but engine flush is just that... REALLY light weight oil like stuff with a LOT of detergents.
i dont see what the big problem is.
people are saying he should have the oil sent to a LAB and be CHECKED???
fine. do it if it makes you feel better, but CHANGE THE FKUCER... and be done with it.
thats my opinion.
really, why risk engine damage? if a quart of engine flush was poured in, it would do some serious damage if not treated.

i just looked at AMSOIL's engine flush website, google engine flush and you'll get it, and it's "made from a carefully selected blend of solvents and special cleaning agents that dissolve and disperse harmful deposits formed in the crankcase, cylinder walls, pistons and rings of an internal combustion engine."

just to clear up a few things. but i think the big consensus it that he should change the oil if he hasn't already because it'll reduce the lubricating abilities of the oil and could ruin the engine.

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by Gohan Ryu

I never said you can't. But whatever you dilute it with has to change the molecular properties of the oil to change it's viscosity.
You should try this for yourself...the two oils will not blend - the lighter oil will float on top of the heavier oil. That is not diluting if the two liquids aren't blending. I mentioned water as an example, but your example of two different oils proves the same point. A simple example is salad dressing - olive oil and vinegar. They don't blend, that's why you have to keep shaking the bottle.

Engine flush isn't an oil - oils are lubricants. Engine flush is almost the exact opposite of a lubricant - it is a solvent.

Lubricants and solvents are two different things.

The point isn't really worth arguing...believe what you will...but I suggest you try your oil experiment for youself.

I have tried it many times, I mix suspension fork oil often. Different brands will sometimes seperate out due to differences in density, but using oil with the same density they never do.

When you measure viscosity (by any method, even pouring it) you are seeing the average viscosity.
You cannot see the different effects of the small and long chain molecules.

Diluting oil adds more small chain molecules and reduces the average viscosity.

Comparing engine oils to water, olive oil and vinegar is stretching things a little. Your analogies are lacking, your chemistry is too.