EGR Valves Dirty

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

A compression test will tell you if the valves are burned or not along with the rings being good or bad. It does not tell you if the valve or valves on a particular clyinder are opening or not, as long as the valves stay closed it will build compression if the piston rings and piston are good.

With all the spark plugs removed the engine can rotate much easier and with less resistance since there is not any combustion being created in the clyinder thus less pressure on the rod bearings.

By all means check the camshaft sensor and syncronizer, but I recommend getting a new sensor and syncronizer if replacing ( with a new syncronizer you should get a alignment tool with it), these parts used could be faulty also and salvage yards will not give a warranty on some thing like that, at least not where I am at. Yes a new part can be faulty, you never know either way.

Yeah, awesome ,thank you. Okay, the answer you gave solves a lot, I will definitely do that tomorrow, get a new valve seal tonite, yank it tomorrow.

The reason I wanted to go used, too, is because I need to replace the driver's lock actuator, passanger one too, and the window lifting thing, plus I did not want to spend another wad of money I am short on anyway getting two sensors totalling $130, since I simply do not know what is wrong. It makes a popping sound, other people have experienced it, so I am totally clueless as to why no one else has solved it. All the recent posts seem to point to something the same or near mine, too. I would think with that kind of majority, something would happen to solve it.

I understand now what you mean. According to my friend ,the valves open and close, and the rings and etc. all cause compression, so if it passed the test, they were good. That is obviously somewhat of a stretch of the truth.

I will get the gasket tonight or tomorrow, and yank it tomorrow when I replace both sensors, if I can get a ride.

Thank you for explaining it! He, my friend told me, if it meets that, it's fine. I have wondered if he was stringing me along, or not. Now I know he could just be not telling me everything for whatever reason.

[olopezm]

Any chance the popping sound is caused by the EGR system? Remove and plug the vacuum line on top of the EGR valve (UFO like thing below the throttle body) and see if the problem goes away. Post any results before you start replacing anything.

Oscar.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by olopezm

Any chance the popping sound is caused by the EGR system? Remove and plug the vacuum line on top of the EGR valve (UFO like thing below the throttle body) and see if the problem goes away. Post any results before you start replacing anything.

Oscar.

I'll do this and then post back!

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by olopezm

Any chance the popping sound is caused by the EGR system? Remove and plug the vacuum line on top of the EGR valve (UFO like thing below the throttle body) and see if the problem goes away. Post any results before you start replacing anything.

Oscar.

Good point Oscar. Also I recommend cheding the sensors before just replacing. Maybe it is time to take to a professional mechanic to solve. Could be cheaper in the end. The other thing that scares me is the anti-freeze that was put into engine, antifreeze will take the babbit off the bearings.

I would find the problem before running for any parts. Just throwing parts at it can get very costly.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

Good point Oscar. Also I recommend cheding the sensors before just replacing. Maybe it is time to take to a professional mechanic to solve. Could be cheaper in the end. The other thing that scares me is the anti-freeze that was put into engine, antifreeze will take the babbit off the bearings.

I would find the problem before running for any parts. Just throwing parts at it can get very costly.

yep, it does.

But, what I found out, is that the sensors involved will give good readings, but still not work-coil pack is a good example.

What is the babbitt? Why would it destroy the bearings?

[olopezm]

It does what? It does gets rid of the problem or not?

I pointed to the EGR because Ford is known for crappy DPFE sensors (part of the EGR system) and when it failed in my Town Car, it caused backfiring. I wonder if that popping noise would be better described as backfiring?.

Oscar.

[olopezm]

You might want to take a look at this article about babbit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(metal)

Oscar.

[tempfixit]

Searles, do you know anybody that has a scanning tool with live info, possibly a laptop with software with live graphics and timing info???

[olopezm]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

Good point Oscar. Also I recommend cheding the sensors before just replacing. Maybe it is time to take to a professional mechanic to solve. Could be cheaper in the end. The other thing that scares me is the anti-freeze that was put into engine, antifreeze will take the babbit off the bearings.

I would find the problem before running for any parts. Just throwing parts at it can get very costly.

Thanks man. Yeah you're right, I don't know why many users (in different forums, not just here) tend to replace whatever is listed in a reply. I recognize that not long ago (when I decided to fix my cars all by myself) I did that a couple of times but not anymore! These things can become money pits in a second, for sure...

Oscar.

[tempfixit]

http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg

Searles, what is the 8th character in the vin number? (u or 4). The reason I ask is because the upper intake to me looks like that of a 3.8 engine. Very possible that I am wrong and I am meaning no offense by asking this question. I have a 98 with a 3.0 and it looks different.

When your friend listened with the stethoscope did he listen to the engine lower end from under the vehicle against the oil pan??? IN my opiniion the more I listen to the video the more it sounds like a bad rod bearing to me. (Hopefully I am wrong).

[wiswind]

MOST Windstars were built using the 3.8L engine......the 3.0L being in the minority (like 6%).

Removing the vaccum line from the top of the EGR valve is a very good test to eliminate the EGR system from the list of possible failures.
You unplug it from the EGR valve and plug it (the vaccum hose).
This will disable the EGR system.
NOTE that this should light the Check Engine Light as the EGR flow sensor (DPFE) will not measure any EGR flow.
The EGR valve VERY rarely fails on the Windstar, the DPFE and EGR ports are the most common cause of EGR issues.
Also note that it is normal for there to be a slight vaccum on the vaccum line to the EGR valve whenever the engine is running,.....however it is not enough to open the EGR valve.
The computer (PCM) determines how much EGR flow it "wants" and sends a signal to the EGR vaccum solenoid to open it and create vaccum in the EGR vaccum line to open the EGR valve.
The PCM uses the signal from the DPFE to know how much flow there is and will control the EGR valve to get the signal that it wants from the DPFE.
If you were to plot a graph of the vaccum inside the vaccum line to the EGR valve, you would see a series of pulses.....
NOTE that the EGR system is supposed to NOT operate when the vehicle is NOT moving.
IF the DPFE is sending a "weak" signal.....then the computer will call for too much EGR flow, causing the engine to run poorly.
If the PCM determines that the DPFE is bad, then it will ignore the DPFE signal and disable the EGR system.

I wish that I had the "correct" answer to your problem.
However, I have never had that problem and can only guess.
I would LOVE for it to be a inexpensive fix.
Also, YES, it is common for folks to post a question and then not post back when they solve their problem.
I have asked folks to post back, but they still often do not.

The Camshaft Sensor Syncro,.....if it has not been messed with (removed) or failed solid (not common) then is "should" still be fine.
it is a shaft with a gear on the end that is driven from the camshaft system.
If the shaft is not spinning, you should get a Check Engine Light (CEL) and a code that indicates a problem with the Camshaft Position Sensor signal.
The common issues with the Syncro are a squeeling sound due to lack of lubrication to a bearing on it and the syncro being in the wrong position......which would require one to move it....I have not read any posts about the syncro jumping a gear (there is not enough slop in the system for that).

The Camshaft SENSOR has been known to fail.....the plastic body seams to crack...often near the electrical connector part of it.
The many heat cycles that it gets....sitting on top of the motor.

The camshaft syncro is all that is left of the distributor that used to be on motors years ago.
Now it only serves to tell the computer the position of the camshafts and that signal is used by the computer to "time" the spurts of fuel from the fuel injectors, and other engine functions.

The crankshaft position sensor......I can understand you having problems seeing it.
I have no pictures posted of it....even though I tried several times to get a good picture of it.
Like the camshaft postion sensor, it is a magnetic pickup type of sensor.
For a very rough idea of how they work.....look at your wheel speed sensors.
There is a "exciter" ring and a little block with wires going to it.
Inside the block with wires is a magnet coil that generates a elecrical "pulse" each time a tooth of the "exciter" ring passes by.
Counting how many pulses there are in a given time tells the computer how fast the wheel is spinning.
In the case of the camshaft position sensor it is WHEN the pulse happens in relationship to other events, like the pulse from the crankshaft position sensor, that the computer is looking for.

[olopezm]

Ha! I hadn't seen the video!

Hmmm... I saw it and first glance it seems like an exhaust leak to me, then I scrolled down to the comments section and saw somebody else had the same idea. Is the noise changing as temperature rises?

I'm sorry, I've never heard a bad rod baring so I can't comment any further about it. I'm pretty sure tempfixit will give you great advise about it!

Oscar.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg

Searles, what is the 8th character in the vin number? (u or 4). The reason I ask is because the upper intake to me looks like that of a 3.8 engine. Very possible that I am wrong and I am meaning no offense by asking this question. I have a 98 with a 3.0 and it looks different.

When your friend listened with the stethoscope did he listen to the engine lower end from under the vehicle against the oil pan??? IN my opiniion the more I listen to the video the more it sounds like a bad rod bearing to me. (Hopefully I am wrong).

U. I have the 3.0. From what I understand, 97-8 had a different engine in some ways. I have a 2000 3.0l.

That is interesting you think it is a bad rod bearing. I wonder if over time, people will keep changing their mind to that.


He listened to most of the top, and then the side. No noise from the bottom at all, neither from the rod or anything else. Misfiring, and then the noise from the upper part near cylinder 1.

I had a long list of windstars at the junk yard yesterday. I picked two parts from a 1999 windstar, and not one of the cars had a veci label-they'd all been removed.

Up here, Autozone had both sensors for 67-78 dollars per. Down, In ABQ, the sensors were 24 and 19, respectively. The kid, really sharp, showed me the pics, and they were different from what the parts I had stated, and the parts were both fro ma '97. They therefore would not work. I can get a credit for them, but...that seems strange the VECI labels would be removed, and the stickers on the cars were wrong , too. The sensors cost me, instead of 10$, 14 and 17. I had called on that too, beforehand. They also inflated the prices from the last time when I went there, and a quote was 20$ on a door hinge. Wow, that is different from the 5$ I paid a month ago.

It is really cold here, so I am going to wait until after lunch and then put both sensors on the car.

[Searles Lewis]

Originally Posted by wiswind

MOST Windstars were built using the 3.8L engine......the 3.0L being in the minority (like 6%).

Removing the vaccum line from the top of the EGR valve is a very good test to eliminate the EGR system from the list of possible failures.
You unplug it from the EGR valve and plug it (the vaccum hose).
This will disable the EGR system.

I have asked folks to post back, but they still often do not.

The Camshaft Sensor Syncro,.....if it has not been messed with (removed) or failed solid (not common) then is "should" still be fine.

I am just amazed tho, given how many people have this problem, yet no one knows a fix?

Is the car making a rod noise, in your opinion, or not? You'd know what that sounds like, right?

As for not posting-the solution would still be known to someone on here, which is why I'm mystified no one has posted it at all.

As for the sensor-we have one of the many windstars where lights come on and off, for no reason, even while driving. Ford windstars are known for bad sensors and very bad electronics. I have also seen enough older posts here to know, an piece of electronics can pass every single test known to mechanics, and still be very bad.

My EGR intake measurement ports were so badly fouled, I'm sure they did not work correctly. The #1 cylinder was so hot a the plenum, I hurt my hand touching it. The black stuff in the port itself looked like the sugar we burned in the third grade in elementary school. That IMHO would be consistent with my landlord having poured anti-freeze into the engine, too.

But, absent anyone knowing, and a bad rod or bearing would be well known it would seem to me, I keep trying other things. My relative has offered to buy a different car, but we can get another engine at half that price, and the rest of the car is fine, has like 147k miles, so that would truly be a waste other than to drop a different engine in instead.

From yahoo answers to here, the things listed for the problem we have with misfiring are usually due to coil pack, crank and camshaft sensors. So I did that. If I take off a valve cover, that means 24 hours while the rtv sets, IIRC from 2001, to repair it.

My friend is usually honest, but years back, when every problem we had started, I testified at an NNSA about LANL killing my Dad by exposing him to plutonium gas, and not telling him, and then getting his oncologist, a real whore of a man, to cover for it. I found out he'd gotten a 26 rem dose from his radiologist, who even wrote out the formula they use to find the dose. As a result, he and evryone lse have called me a "traitor", and I have been blamed for lanl losing contracts and everything else. I detailed online what was being said and done to my family and me as a result, and this really stirred things up.

So, now, since I am getting different stories from the same person, I do not know what to think at all. It was working fine ,then we came back from town, working out, and the car started making the popping sound, and lost power. But, even a mechanic from mexico like olopezm, does not know. I find that really funky. There are now 5 videos on youtube of Fords with the same problem but no listed answers.

I am still not sure about the vacuum leak thing, and given the spurious and strange info I have been getting, do not know what to do.

Does anyone? In my area ,there are plenty of car enthusiasts, mostly hispanic ,who work on cars to make them supercharged ,and my son had one of those guys as a friend-his Dad does it in Nambe. But, I do not know his addy, and the area just a few years ago had people standing by the road with baseball bats, attacking any white person coming in. The street signs get removed too, so if you are not from there, good luck finding an addy. Outside of that, I neither know where to go, or even how.

Everything electric fails on a Ford. I can't find a rod bearing break that sounds like mine on youtube.

So, I am stuck.

[94LebConv3La604]

If your interior lights seem to turn on and off whenever they damn well please....check the hatch's door sensors...I was having that problem and determined it to be one of the two hatch sensors on my 98. I just removed it instead of replacing it as I could care less if it thought the door was closed or not and by default, without the sensor attached, it assumes the door is closed.