(update alert!!06/20/06) Racing Game Pre-Production: Need Your Advice, All!!!

[jcsaleen]

I know that's how he's looking at things, but unfortunately his viewpoint is slightly flawed, and it's NOT coming from the perspective of "Let's make the best game we can," but rather, "Let's make the game that we can sell to the clueless public the most."

Thats Bs... Were trying to make it for enthusiasts like us not for the typical NFSU ricehead... If they want a game for the public then tell him to go buy GT4 or NFSU. Its games that break the mold that usually wind up being classics.

[Killing Moon]

Jet-lee, I know that's how he's looking at things, but unfortunately his viewpoint is slightly flawed, and it's NOT coming from the perspective of "Let's make the best game we can," but rather, "Let's make the game that we can sell to the clueless public the most."

There is a HUGE difference between those two perspectives. From his comments, that's also why he's aiming at the PS3 right now, not because it's the best (it's not) but because it's got the most market share. It's good that he's got some standards, and they will be making the game for a Hard-Drive based machine. But still, I can guarantee that they're going to cut corners somewhere, especially in the physics engine, and other parts of the game that hammer the CPU. Plus, probably limited texturing and shading too, since the GPU's on consoles aren't really at the top of the performance envelope, either.

A truly avid DRIVING GAMER will go out and buy the platform to play the best game ever on, regardless of what that platform it is, or how much it costs (within reason.)
PC GAMERS will go out on a limb to get a cool game, whether it's a driving game or not. However, the standard PC USER won't, because they don't know enough about systems to have one that doesn't suck, so when a game comes out that has programming to use the latest hardware capabilities to enhance the textures, lighting, shadows, and physics, it just ends up looking like crap on their machine because they have their settings too high for their hardware.

This is the thing that is really starting to piss me off about gaming manufacturers, is that they're going for the quick-money console market and programming the games in a half-assed manner, and alienating the computer gamers, instead of programming games to take advantage of the technology available to PC's to make the games friggin' awesome.


POScort, I don't have xbox live. If I did, my nick would be SgtRauksauff (It's been my multiplayer LAN/online nick for close to 10 years). I might get it eventually, but I dunno yet.

Personally, though, I think that FPS games should stay away from consoles, because they are way way way better on the PC. Driving games, RPGs, and Sports games are great on consoles though

Yeah, i guess you could say that I'm biased towards the PC side of things, but I've got an xbox, a pstwo, and a PC. Guess which one has the best graphics? the pc. guess which one has the best physics? the PC. guess which one has the ability to configure your controls so they aren't ghey? the PC. Porting a game from a PC to a console is fine (rainbow 6 series, halflife series, etc..) because it's initially designed for the PC, it has all of the graphics/physics/textures/sounds/ there to use the full potential that it can deliver. What really sucks is when a company will design a game specifically for a console, then port it to a pc. you get ultra-limited controls, poor textures/lighting, and a suboptimal game engine. Halo itself really really ticked me off, becuase the game was basically 2 months from being released as a really high-end top quality PC game, then microsoft bought Bungie, stopped PC development, and made them start from scratch to make it for the xbox. then, when they finally did port it to the PC, it was a sad sad mockery of what it originally started to be.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts this fine friday morning. lol!


--sarge

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong in nearly every account.

Let's start with the "console choice" explanation. First off, it is a known fact that console games gather more profits than PC games do on a regular basis. Do you know why? Because most PC gamers that keep the market healthy are within their late 20's--early 30's range. These gamers are completely stuck in their ways and habits; very little can change their minds. What this means also is that unless the title falls unto the PC's 4 genre types (MMO, FPS, RTS and hybrids of the initial 3), the developer's efforts won't be recognized too well.

Unless of course, your name is Bioware, Id, etc.

Now of course, you could bring up the same argument w/ console audiences, many of which fall into the same age bracket. The problem with this point is, due to their large numbers, they're also more open-minded. They'll give anything a chance if it is done well and or marketed well. Of course the mainstream audiences will clamor for anything that contains pretty visuals.

Also, let's be real here. It's not as if PC titles (with the exception of RTS's) are doing anything "out of the ordinary" as far as game design is concerned either. For FPS's, they all play the same, sans some control hot-key differences from title to title. One game may have a "time freeze" gimmick, the other will have more enemies on screen, but let's face it; they're all doing the same sh**, point blank.

At the very least, Halo combined some good concepts from several FPS's and melded them together. Albeit in a overly "newbie-friendly" manner, but at least it did SOMETHING.

Yes, the technological quality of FPS's on PC are superior to console. No doubt about it. However, there really isn't much difference to the gameplay of say, Far Cry vs. Cold Winter. They're about the same (and Cold Winter at least involved a semi-compelling story).

With that said, while PC racing sims have the best physics on the market (with the exception of a few console titles), it's due to the Western programmers' habits and talents, not due to PC technology (which Havok physics proves greatly).

Imagine having to spend 30-million dollars on a game, only to have about 30,000 people buy it thanks to PC gamer "standards" and preferences.

Console Power:
The most powerful graphics card available today is the Nvidia 7800. The PS3's RSX GPU is "proposed" to be more powerful when finalized, combined with the Cell in assistance, which can also render visuals on par with high-end PC cards of today. Not to mention the physics calculations to boot. Unreal Engine 3 alone has trouble running on the latest high-end PC cards (with the exception of the 7800 NOW), while the PS3 runs it effortlessly and at a higher framerate.

You do the math.

Not for nuthin', but we are investing a GREAT amount of time, effort and money into this game for the future. It would be suicide to adhere to a few fan complaints, based solely on the lack of popularity for their particular platform in comparison to another.

If we're going to create a grandiose painting, the only way it can be recognized would be within a large museum. Not from your mom's garage sale.

Get what I'm saying?

Overall, this isn't about the money. This is about creating the BEST racing game on the market, period. No exceptions or compromises; through my and many gamers'/gearheads' anger to drive the production forward (as you can see here on this thread). However, it would completely fruitless if the game doesn't gain the notoriety that it so greatly deserves when completed. There has to be a balance here. We can't have the game released, then bitch and moan on forums and magazine interviews about how much better our product is than the competition, while expressing bitterness because our sales are poor at the same time.

We don't want to be another Tim Shafer. We don't need that.

[Killing Moon]

Good news, everyone.
We're getting our initial project off the ground sooner than we thought. One step closer to Project R.

Just keeping everyone updated. Miss you guys.

[jcsaleen]

Yes, & good luck with the development of the game. I'll be rooting for ya.

[ec437]

I just realized that this book would be very helpful to someone designing a video game. It has lots of formulas and such for computing maximum theororetical speeds in corners and many many other things.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cus...507846&s=books

A quick look through the appendix:

The effect of banking angle and tire load on maximum cornering speed
the effect of down force on max. cornering speed
the effect of all wheel drive on handling

and so on.

[2.2 Straight six]

that race car looks like a toledo cupra R

[Cyprus106]

since I'm lazy and don't want to read thru 15 pages of threads, if you want some help, I know there's several professional computer programmers here, myself included, that would be willing to help.

[Killing Moon]

Originally Posted by ec437

I just realized that this book would be very helpful to someone designing a video game. It has lots of formulas and such for computing maximum theororetical speeds in corners and many many other things.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cus...507846&s=books

A quick look through the appendix:

The effect of banking angle and tire load on maximum cornering speed
the effect of down force on max. cornering speed
the effect of all wheel drive on handling

and so on.

Wow, thanks man. This may help a lot!!!

[Killing Moon]

Originally Posted by Cyprus106

since I'm lazy and don't want to read thru 15 pages of threads, if you want some help, I know there's several professional computer programmers here, myself included, that would be willing to help.

Believe me, when this project starts, we'll need all the programming talent that we can get. Especially in the area of physics/ vehicle physics.

[travis712]

So, any date(s) for releases? When your starting? Keep us updated man, I wouldn't mind spending money on a game like this one sounds.

[Killing Moon]

Originally Posted by travis712

So, any date(s) for releases? When your starting? Keep us updated man, I wouldn't mind spending money on a game like this one sounds.

Well, we’re starting up now as we speak. Our first project isn’t Project R; not just yet, but it's REALLY good, but small. Like I said, it's the initial startup phase.

We have big plans though and you can most certainly guarantee that I’ll stay in touch with everyone here as much as possible. You’ve all become my friends in such a short span of time now, so there’s no way this can falter.

Right now we’re in negotiations with the investors and have to meet up with them later this upcoming week. So for those who are spiritual, pray for us. We’ll need all the help that we can get!!

[travis712]

The best of luck with everything man, hope everything goes well.

[nicecar]

whoa, i want this game (for PS2/3)

wicked sounding game

[Killing Moon]

Originally Posted by travis712

The best of luck with everything man, hope everything goes well.

Thanks man.
There's still little touches that I'm adding to the design script here and there even now. Also, there's a change with the company name right as well. We're going to start off with our universal production studio and build from there.

Hopefully this week's meeting goes through smoothly. Then I'll officially be able to reveal our 1st project to you guys (unfortunately, it isn't Project R, just yet).

[Killing Moon]

Okay, our latest meeting just went through yesterday. The investor is MORE than happy to be working with us. It's all just a matter of locking down the budget in a more detailed fashion.

We're slowly getting together more members of the team, guys/gals. It's gonna be a looooooooong, but fun ride. The checkered flag is Project R and now we even have a member who's in Apex Technical School solely for R&D on the project.

Yes, it is THAT serious, people...

Oh, n' BTW: I just saw the latest Tokyo Game Show (TGS) video of Vision Gran Turismo/ GT5 for PS3. Great visuals...but nothin' else.