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View Poll Results: What do you think of Hyundai?
They are good and quality cars 3 50.00%
They are junk 3 50.00%
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Old 08-01-2008, 01:40 PM   #1
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Cool HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Dear readers and internet surfers. You probably visit this Thread because you are interested to buy a Hyundai car. It's important to read slowly the whole Thread to understand why Hyundai is Worthless and not worthing the money you give. You can also vote in the Poll that have in the top of the first page. The subscription is free, quick and easy. But if you have not time to read the whole Thread, I suggest you to read only the comments #1, #61 (in page 5) and #79 (in page 6). Comment's number is in the top and in the right of every comment.
--------------------------///////\\\\\\\--------------------------
I will tell you something from my experience. I own a HYUNDAI Accent from 1998 and have only 92.000 klms (that would be about 65.000 miles). I also -and always- drive "gently". I don't drive fast, I don't accelerate strong, I don't go above 90 klms (70 miles) per hour because I want to have fuel economy.
HYUNDAI cars generally may be cheap to buy, seems to have enough good technical specifications and they're good looking. But I believe its not worth because:
a) it has poor construction quality,
b) it appears often mechanical and electrical malfunctions,
c) the fuel consumption usually is bigger than this described by its book,
d) it has expensive genuine parts so an EXPENSIVE SERVICE and maintenance cost in the long term,
e) it burns lots of oils inside its engine (so, I have to carry always Oil with me). The cost to fix it is very big.
f) when I drive I hear sounds and “cracks” from the main body and the plastics of the car (what a quality?!?!?).
g) often, when I catch the door from the outside metal surface, there is static electricity that shocks me (its very unpleasant).

In the long term, I EXPERIENCED ALL THESE PROBLEMS. My opinion is absolutely NEGATIVE for HYUNDAI generally. When I will have to replace my car, I will not buy a HYUNDAI again (not only Accent, I mean any HYUNDAI). That's for sure! Don't make the same mistake I made. It's wasted money. The money that you earn by working hard.

The proof that I am objective is that I can tell you something that I like in my Accent: it has a strong Air Condition (stronger comparable to other brands cars) that is useful to hot Greek Summers and till now, it has only some tiny rusts, not something important (at least in the places that I can see).

If HYUNDAI had quality, it would have it in 1998 and today (as a principle). Often, the quality is better when someone has an older model, because every car industry by the pressure of lower cost, reduce the quality year by year. In the other hand, when a car factory is new in the game (as HYUNDAI was in 1998) makes better products because the Industry is not known (famous) and want to have costumers. As the years passing, they reduce the quality because they gain fans. Fans have no brain. They want tell you the truth: they are fans. So, do not take HYUNDAI.
Take any car, but first search the Internet for the owners opinions, reviews, problems etc.

And because some guys say that Hyundai may be had low quality at 1998 but nowadays make improvements and has good quality anymore, I will say to them that:
If HYUNDAI had done improvments in the quality of its cars at the last decade, then why the resale value of Hyundai cars is still very low? Anybody can say anything. I say that Hyundai cars are not worthing, someone else says they worth. How someone can know who is true? I will tell you. The resale value of the cars balances by demand and supply. Someone finds the resale value at the secondary cars market. The whole market is formulating by demand and supply. We have all the Hyundai's owners and all the possible buyers. If we consider that demand is stable, we have the unstable factor "supply". The resale value is very low. WHY? Because the total of the already Hyundai owners are not sutisfied with their Hyundais and so, they want to sell their "good" cars and accept the low value that the buyers of the secondary market give them. Otherwise we can not have a low resale market value. The whole market shout to us that "Hyundai are not good cars". That's why they don't have good resale value. If they were good cars (today, not in 1998), their owners would appreciated and they wan't like to sell them. If they wouldn't like to sell them, the supply of used Hyundais would be small and... magically... the Hyundais would have better resale value. And we are speaking for today, not 1998.

---> Look always for negative opinions. Because those that have negative opinions they have nothing to gain from that. I just tell you that Hyundai doesn't make good cars and I win nothing from that. If someone tells you a positive opinion, maybe, I just say may be, have something to gain. May be is working for Hyundai, may be he is trying to sell a Hyundai, may be wants to justify his choise of Hyundai and wants to feel nice... Conlusion: Negative opinions worth more from positives.

---> As for all these top positionigs and awards from some organizations to Hyuandais, that some guys tell us, I simply discredit them. How do I know that they are real tests and these organizations have nothing to gain, even if they are "non-profit"??? (advertisements, hidden payments, pay offs etc).

So, my opinion: Hyundai didn't have quality at the old days (1998) that noone knew that korean automaker. Now, Hyundai makes cheap cars, that seems good. But they are not. If they hadn't quality yesterday, they will have not tomorrow. It'a a matter of principle. Or you have or you have not... As I said before, today they have fans (= no brain) that willing to follow them (because Hyundais are cheap, seems good and they're good looking). And if you have today any car of any brand, new, it will be in a good condition for 5-6 years. What happens after that? That is the Question. I believe that Hyundai they weren't and they aren't good cars for someone that wants a car for 10-15 years, as a usefull tool and not for a "toy" and short term period of 4-5 years.
Finally even I have not drive a KIA, I believe that they are the same bad cars as Hyundais and the reason for that is that HYUNDAI and KIA are the same Group. So, and because Quality is a matter of principle, I'm sure that as Hyundai doesn't have, so and KIA. So be carefull!!! Away from them!
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Old 08-02-2008, 08:47 AM   #2
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

I can't believe your basing your opinion on Hyundai on a 10, possibly 11 year old car. No matter how many miles, things deteriorate over time, which can cause issues, some of which you have ranted about. Some of your points are pointless to. The price of parts, probably not Hyundai's fault. More than likely an issue with Greece and Korea's governments, and whatever taxes they decide to impose on the parts. I sell parts all over the world, and quite a bit to Canada. You can't tell me that Hyundai is ripping the people in Canada off by charging them $25 for an oil filter, while their neighbors to the south, (US), can get one for $6. Here in the US, Honda and Toyota are expensive parts. Trust me, I have owned a Honda Accord, currently own a Toyota Camry, and a Hyundai Sonata. And by far the Sonata was the best one. I put 100k miles on an '03 Sonata within 3 years, without a single issue, other than chrome peeling off the inside door handles. The wife then wanted to trade it in for something bigger, so I now have an '06 GMC Envoy that sits in the garage collecting dust. The Accord and Camry I've owned, with the same mileage, I have spent thousands of dollars on to keep in the same mechanical condition as the Hyundai. Even with 100k miles, I'd take the Sonata cross country if I need to, not the Accord or Camry. What good was your rant. I'm sorry, not many people are going to base there purchase decision of a new car based off the opinion of an owner with a 10 year old car. Hyundai has come leaps and bounds over the past few years. I have been with them for 6 years now, and can tell a huge difference. Take a look at the amount of warranty work we do. Our warranty dollars are 1/3rd of what they were 5 years ago, and there are a ton more Hyundai's on the road now than there were 5 years ago. Those numbers speak for themselves. If you want to rant, go to a Toyota or Honda forum, I'm sure they'd love to hear your opinion while they think their car is the god of all cars. With the amount of money I have spent on all the cars I've owned through the years, I would never buy another Honda or Toyota. If the Camry I own now wasn't free, I would have never bought it. It was owned by my in-laws, old people, didn't drive much, always maintained it, but things were still breaking all the time on it.
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Old 08-02-2008, 05:01 PM   #3
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Fistly, thanks for your answer.
So as you said, you believe that my opinion is wrong because I own a 1998 Hyundai. So you mean that the todays hyundais are good cars with quality.
I will say the same that I wrote before:
Logically, any car industry (let's say Hyundai) if it had quality, it would have it in 1998 and today (as a matter of principle). Often, the quality is better when someone has an older model, because every car industry by the pressure of lower cost, reduce the quality year by year. So, older cars = better cars. In the other hand, when a car factory is new in the game (as HYUNDAI was in 1998) makes better products because the Industry is not known (famous) and want to have costumers. As the years passing, they reduce the quality because they gain fans. Fans have no brain and they buy cars anyway, by the colour, the design, the technical specifications. You can not see the quality when you buy a car. To see the quality, must pass a lot of time, like 6 at least years. Nowadays, any car industry have the minimum of quality they need for its cars, to last 5 or 6 years. Do I need this? The minimum of quality? No!
I give my money and I want a high quality car, not medium, not low. I am not strange. I am not asking for a perfect car. But sure, I am asking for a quality, above medium. And I don't think so that Hyundais have this -above medium- quality.
The problems I experienced at the decade that I own Accent, are not normal. Moreover, they are not normal because the service of Hyundai in my country is really expensive and most of all is more expensive than other, more prestigeus brands (OPEL, HONDA, etc). And even if the high cost of service is a theme of the Greek Authorised Dealer, the Hondai Motor Company must have an opinion and a power over it. Because if you are not agree with me on this, then for you is logical Hyundai Motors to sell globally cars of low cost and then the Dealers in every country to retain high cost of auto parts and work, so the Hyundai owners to have a high (in absolute number and comparable to other brands) maintenance cost over the years.
Is it OK with you? And Hyundai Motors have nothing to do with this? Because for me it's not OK. It doesn't seems to me logical. To have the dealers to destroy (with their high costs) the image that Hyundai Motors tries to build globally.
And the high cost of the parts, it can't be a matter between Greece's and Korea's governments as you said, because I say again, auto parts from other brands and countries are cheaper (even if they are from more prestigeus brands, from countries like Japan or Germany). So the between countries agreements and the taxes that imposed, IS NOT A EXCUSE.

Furthermore, why you discredit a car (take any car, not only Hyundai Accent) when it's 10 years old? Because you are saying that I am basing my opinion on a 10 or 11 years old car. Yes, it's true! I am basing my opinion on my 10 years old car. What's wrong with that? What different you believe that I woul'd have done? To base my opinion on 3 or 4 years? That woul'd be rediculοus. As I said before, any car industry has the minimum quality for its cars to last 4 or 5 years. I don't need this car industry with the minimum quality! If a car industry has quality products, that will be tested and checked, only in the long term. Long term is 10 or 15 years, not 5 or 6.

And let's say that Hyundai in 1998 hadn't so good quality but now improved its cars and has above medium, enough good quality. If this was true, then how do you explain the low resale value? I mean today, no at 1998.

As I said to my firt presentation, the whole secondary market of used cars tell us that "HYUNDAI are not quality cars!". Let's speak clear and simple with two equations:

My equation:

Hyundais Low Quality + unhappy users on the long term = increased supply of hyundai cars = Low Resale Value

Your's equation:

Hyundais High Qulity + happy users on the long term = decreased supply of hyundai cars = Low Resale Value ????

How it comes??? I really don't understand. Can you explain this to me, please?

Finally, how can I know that these that you told that you also own a Toyota and a Honda, and you find the Hyundai better than those japanese cars? How can I know that you are telling the truth? I have no interest (I can not have) by telling you "NOT BUY HYUNDAI". I don't gain something from it. You might say this only because you want to protect your interests. As you said you sell auto parts. How can I know that you are not selling Hyundais Auto parts, so your interests are Hyundai to have prestige and you are trying to help on this issue. (regardless that they have not prestige. Think... low resale value = low reputation of Hyundai in the whole market).

And remember... I don't say to people that read us "buy the X brand", I only say "Don't buy HYUNDAI cars, because they are worthless". Buy whatever you want, it's your problem. I only warn them for Hyundais, because noone finds money free in the streets.
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Old 08-03-2008, 10:54 PM   #4
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial]So as you said, you believe that my opinion is wrong because I own a 1998 Hyundai. So you mean that the todays hyundais are good cars with quality.
I will say the same that I wrote before:
[font=Arial]Logically, any car industry (let's say Hyundai) if it had quality, it would have it in 1998 and today (as a matter of principle). Often, the quality is better when someone has an older model, because every car industry by the pressure of lower cost, reduce the quality year by year. So, older cars = better cars. In the other hand, when a car factory is new in the game (as HYUNDAI was in 1998) makes better products because the Industry is not known (famous) and want to have costumers. As the years passing, they reduce the quality because they gain fans. Fans have no brain and they buy cars anyway, by the colour, the design, the technical specifications. You can not see the quality when you buy a car. To see the quality, must pass a lot of time, like 6 at least years.
That logic cannot be more wrong. So you are saying Hyundai's quality was as good back when they first started out than it is today? Hyundai's quality back in the day did suck. I have a tech that has been working on Hyundai's since the mid-90s. He used to have to push cars off the transporter, because they would have junk transmissions before they even made it to the dealer lot. And this wasn't a one time thing, he said it happened all the time. So these cars are of better quality than they are today? HA That why JD Powers does an initial quality survey, to see how many issues the customer has with their new car within the first 90 days of ownership, and Hyundai is always up there in the top 5. Back then, Hyundai used a lot of other peoples technology. A lot of engines borrowed from Chrysler and Mitsubishi. Now those companies are looking to Hyundai for their designs. I have a customer with a 2001 Elantra with almost 300k miles on it, almost all of it delivering newspapers. Only thing he has had to replace is maintenance parts, brakes, and maybe a wheel bearing here and there. Few weeks ago he was even commenting that he was still on the original alternator and starter. That car is 7 years old now, and I can say I've never seen an 87 Excel with that many miles. When Honda first started making cars, their quality wasn't up to par either. So were their cars from the 70s of higher quality than todays cars? By your logic, that would be the case. Hyundai's resale value is low because they are still trying to break the image of their cars from the past. There is also quite a large amount of Hyundai rentals. This floods the used car market with 1 or 2 year old cars with 30k miles that are selling for cheap because the rental companies are willing the sell them cheap when they are done with them. You see very few Honda or Toyotal rentals out there. Avis, Budget, Enterprise, Hertz, they all buy parts from me for their cars that they wreck. Avis and Hertz are my two largest customer. Avis along, just at the Indianapols location just took deliver of 219 new Hyundais ready to be put into service. These 200 cars will all of a sudden hit the used car segmant in another year. This is also the reason GM has drastically reduced the number of cars they sell to rental companies. They are wanting to increase the value of their used cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
The problems I experienced at the decade that I own Accent, are not normal[/u]. Moreover, they are not normal because the service of Hyundai in my country is really expensive and most of all is more expensive than other, more prestigeus brands (OPEL, HONDA, etc). And even if the high cost of service is a theme of the Greek Authorised Dealer, the Hondai Motor Company must have an opinion and a power over it. Because if you are not agree with me on this, then for you is logical Hyundai Motors to sell globally cars of low cost and then the Dealers in every country to retain high cost of auto parts and work, so the Hyundai owners to have a high (in absolute number and comparable to other brands) maintenance cost over the years.
Is it OK with you? And Hyundai Motors have nothing to do with this? Because for me it's not OK. It doesn't seems to me logical. To have the dealers to destroy (with their high costs) the image that Hyundai Motors tries to build globally.
And the high cost of the parts, it can't be a matter between Greece's and Korea's governments as you said, because I say again, auto parts from other brands and countries are cheaper (even if they are from more prestigeus brands, from countries like Japan or Germany). So the between countries agreements and the taxes that imposed, IS NOT A EXCUSE.
Again, this is going to be different in every country. I wouldn't necessary blame Hyundai, unless Hyundai just says, "oh, let's charge the people of Greece more for parts, just because we can." Here in the US, Hyundai parts are cheaper in price than most all the other car companies out there. Almost all air filters sell for $13.12. There are a few that are $13.32. According to my Honda dealer, all Honda air filters are $25.00. That's about twice, just for a simple air filter. And there aren't any import taxes there, since more than likely the Honda part is made here in the US. And buying stuff for the Toyotas and Honda's I've owned, I do know that I have paid more for parts from them than I would for a Hyundai.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial]Finally, how can I know that these that you told that you also own a Toyota and a Honda, and you find the Hyundai better than those japanese cars? How can I know that you are telling the truth?
I owned a '90 Honda CRX Si. I drove about 50 minutes each way to work, so I bought it to save on gas. Didn't save me that much, because I dumped more money into that car than any car that I've ever owned. Bought a 2003 Sonata LX in April of 2003 for my wife's birthday. She drove about 45 minutes each way to work, thus leading to the 100k miles she put on it in 3 years. We then built a house and moved a little closer to her work, cut her drive down to about 30-35 minutes. Traded it in on a 2006 GMC Envoy because she wanted 4wd and something bigger. Well, after putting 21k miles on it in 7 months, I bought a low mileage 96 Accord, just to save gas. 17mpg in the Envoy was expensive. And referring to that Hyundai's don't get the fuel economy that they advertise. Yeah, my Envoy is rated 21mpg on the highway, and it gets 17 on the highway, and much less in the city. It's the same way with all car companies. The NTSB didn't change the way they rated fuel economy until 2008, where they tested in more real world conditions. This took a hit on every car manufacturer out there because the rated fuel economy went down on every car on the road. Back on my point, I owned the '96 Accord for about 8 months before my in-laws gave us their '98 Camry. The Accord needed a lot of work, but I never got around to fixing any of it. It got her from point A to B. ABS didn't work, struts were soft and noisy, oil leaks, sunroof sometimes worked, sometimes didn't, same with windows and radio, transmission had some super hard shifts. The Camry I was given needed a lot of work as well, but not as much as the Honda, so I kept it, and sold the Honda. PLus the Camry had leather, and all the goodies. But still again, had to replace all the struts and mounts, the leather interior is coming apart, hard shifts, tensioner spring for the timing belt was weak, even though it was changed with the timing belt at 60k miles, valve cover gasket leaking, sunroof doesn't work. All this is in a 1998, same as yours, with the about the same mileage. So, do I go around saying Toyotas are pieces of s**t because my car has tons of problems? No, I don't. Why? Because it's a 10 year old car. Things get weak over time, and they fail. Is this Camry of higher quality than a new one, I doubt it. Will it last another 100k miles? I doubt it. That is why I plan on buying a 2009 Sonata in the spring for my wife to drive. Why? Because I already had one Sonata last 100k miles without a single issue, and I don't feel like spending a ton of money on this 10 year old one. In a couple of years, I'm sure the cost of repairs will be more than what a new car payment would be.

I am now done with this thread and listening to this nonsense. Go to another forum and talk down on Hyundai and praise Honda and Toyota for the superior car that you think they make. BTW, I have another customer with a 2006 Azera. No problems with his car yet, but he loves making fun of his next door neighbor because his 2007 Toyota Camry has had the transmission replaced in it twice now, and spends just about as much time in the shop as he gets to drive it. Yet, his poorer quality Hyundai as you see it, only sees the dealership for oil changes. I hear this story every time he comes in.
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Old 08-04-2008, 05:35 AM   #5
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Thanks for your answer. Remember that we do this conversation in good faith. I believe that mine and your purpose is to inform the people about the things we know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsonoma1999
That logic cannot be more wrong. So you are saying Hyundai's quality was as good back when they first started out than it is today? Hyundai's quality back in the day did suck..

Yes, we agree on that. Hyundai's quality in the past (let's say 10 to 15 years ago did suck. Our difference is that you say that in the years that followed, hyundai improved a lot its quality and you said that it became better than some japanese brands.

I don't agree with that. I don't like to say the same things but every car industry by the pressure of low cost, year by year, reduces the quality. Isn't it obvious that cars of any brand, lasted more in the past 10 or 20 years than today's cars? All those guys that read our topic can confirm this. And it is logical. As the years passing there is a pressure to the car industries to sell cheaper. What they can do to reduce their cost? If their car are not good looking, the consumers will not buy them. If their cars don't have good technical features (speed, accelaration, fuel consumption, etc), the potential buyers will read their features and will not buy them. But in the issue of quality, you can not check and test a car with a test drive. You must own the car for some years to check the quality. So, when the car industries want to have low cost, the easiest way is to reduce quality. And I believe the most of them, they reduce quality.

And for supporting my opinion, I will tell you that my best friend, has an OPEL Kadett from ... 1978 (yes. seventy eight), from his father that in 1978 had bought it new. He has stoped going his Kadett in OPEL's authorised service from the '80s. When he realise some problem, he goes his Kadett to his neighbourhood car technician. Do you know when he confronted the same problem that I confront some months ago with my Hyundai Accent (oils burning inside the engine, so I have to carry always Oil with me)? Five or six years ago... Do you understand the difference? My car appeared this particular problem in 10 years. His car appeared the same problem in 24 or 25 years. In the decade I own my Accent, I went (always) my Hyundai only to expensive authorised service. My friend went his car only to his neighbourhood car engineer or electrician (oh... yes... they are much cheaper).

So which logic is right? Mine that I am saying that all car industries reduce he quality in the passing of time or your's, that you insist that car industries improve their quality? And if you are right, how you explain that OPEL Kadett of 1978 present the same problem with mine Hyundai, but OPEL presented it at 25 years and not in 10 years like my Hyundai???
Because that's true, I chalenge the korean Hyundai "qualitative" auto makers to come here in Greece, to test and check this OPEL Kadett to understand what is real quality and not "quality" that they make. I invite them to come here in Greece, to copy the machine of OPEL of 1978. Shame on them that after 20 years (the difference between the year 1978 of OPEL - 1998 of my Hyundai), they make a car (mine) that presented a particular serious problem in 10 years, when OPEL presented the same in 25 years. Shame!!!

In the other hand, I think we agree for the after sales service of Hyundai that sucks. The Dealer here in Greece is titled "HYUNDAI HELLAS"... yes... Hyundai. The Dealer is representing Hyundai Motors. He doesn't do anything he wants. He complies with the rules and standards of Hyundai Motors.
So when I gone and told them that the last malfunction of my Accent (lots of oils to be burned inside its engine) is UNACCEPTABLE when I drive "gently" (is proven by the Car's service book), I have done little miles in a decade and always go my car to the EXPENSIVE authorised service and then I asked Hyundai Hellas to fix it for free (yes for free because it's unacceptable) they told me that the warranty is expired. So what? If the problem is UNACCEPTABLE, they have to fix it. It's like the Recalls.
What every reliable car industry do when they realize an unacceptable problem that owed to their defective production? They recall the problematic cars, no matter if the warranty has expired, and fix them for free.
What's the difference in my case? I inform them for a defective car of theirs. They must fix it. They didn't fix it. I communicated with Hyundai Motors and Hyundai Europe. Nothing. For all of them, this malfunction is something usual, something acceptable... Enough!

You also didn't answered to my equations but you tried to justified the low resale value issue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsonoma1999
Hyundai's resale value is low because they are still trying to break the image of their cars from the past. There is also quite a large amount of Hyundai rentals. This floods the used car market with 1 or 2 year old cars with 30k miles that are selling for cheap because the rental companies are willing the sell them cheap when they are done with them. You see very few Honda or Toyotal rentals out there. Avis, Budget, Enterprise, Hertz, they all buy parts from me for their cars that they wreck. Avis and Hertz are my two largest customer. Avis along, just at the Indianapols location just took deliver of 219 new Hyundais ready to be put into service. These 200 cars will all of a sudden hit the used car segmant in another year. This is also the reason GM has drastically reduced the number of cars they sell to rental companies. They are wanting to increase the value of their used cars.


So you are telling my that the low rease value of Hyundais is the outcome of the large number of cars, as Hyundai/KIA is no. 5 top sales globally.

I can not disagree on that.
The top 10 in 1997 globally was like this:

2007 Global Sales Rankings
1. Toyota 9,366,000
2. GM 8,902,252
3. Volkswagen 6,191,618
4. Ford 5,964,000
5. Hyundai-Kia 3,961,629
6. Honda 3,831,000
7. Nissan 3,675,574
8. PSA/Peugeot 3,428,400
9. Chrysler 2,676,268
10. Fiat 2,620,864

So can you explain how the brands that are in the first, second, third, forth position (above Hyundai/KIA) and the 6th and 7th position that is near Hyundai, so they sell more cars than the korean group or almost the same number, all of them have much bigger resale value from Hyundai???

With your words the equation for Hyundai in this:

+ Hyundais High Quality in the recent years - bad reputation from the past
+ happy users in recent times - large number of cars in the market
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
= (according to your thought) increased supply of hyundai cars = Low Resale Value

Then following your thought, for the top auto seller, above Hyundai, we must have (with your words):

For the top sellers globally, above Hyundai

+ Good past reputation - Quality worse than Hyundai
+ High initial cost of new cars - unhappy users in recent times
- larger number of cars in the market
(have bigger sales from Hyundai)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what must be the result? You accepted that all of these brands have bigger resale value than Hyundai.
but if we take the equations elements we resulting = (the elements by your thought are the blue colour words above) = increased supply of those cars = Low Resale Value (like Hyundais or smaller) because we have more minus than the Hyundais equation.

But it isn't. All of these cars (brands), have much better resale value from Hyundais. So I believe that you are wrong. You are wrong because you:
  • overestimate the size of Hyundai sales (the other I mentioned, have already bigger sales, but they have better resale value).
  • underestimate the comprehension, the apperception of Hyundai owners in recent times, because you are telling that even they have good cars with quality and they are happy with it, they accept a low resale value from the potential buyers.
The Hyundai owners in recent times are not morons to sell low, something that has a great value (their car). The only way to sell their car cheap, is that in total and in the long term, they are not satisfied with their cars. What means that? Hyundai have no quality.

So the top 4 (and the 6th, 7th, 8 and 9) auto makers globally they have better resale value than Hyundai, despite their bigger sales, the larger no. of their cars in the market. How is this possible? They have more satisfied drivers in the long term. And that can happen only if the have better quality.

And finally I want to speak for another issue that Hyundai sucks. SAFETY.
Go to this link and read...

http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:m_NgdwH-qm8J:www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/01381/car-crash-airbag-failure.html+hyundai+worthless&hl=el&ct=clnk&cd=1& gl=gr
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:56 AM   #6
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Yes, we agree on that. Hyundai's quality in the past (let's say 10 to 15 years ago did suck. Our difference is that you say that in the years that followed, hyundai improved a lot its quality and you said that it became better than some japanese brands.

[color=black][font=Arial]I don't agree with that. I don't like to say the same things but every car industry by the pressure of low cost, year by year, reduces the quality. Isn't it obvious that cars of any brand, lasted more in the past 10 or 20 years than today's cars? All those guys that read our topic can confirm this. And it is logical.
It's perfectly logical that quality would IMPROVE. The automotive industry is VERY competitive. It's competitive on price, on content, and on quality. A car today has FAR higher quality than of cars 20 or 30 years ago and is constantly improving.

You see more of those older cars because there were more of those older cars. When Volkswagen had its best year in the US with the Type 1 (Beetle), it sold more of them than Volkswagen sells of all its models combined today. There were years where the best-selling Chevrolet or Ford models sold over a million units...today the best selling car line is lucky to sell 400,000 units.

Quality is measured in terms of reliability, fit and finish, and durability. Twenty or thirty years ago, you were proud to say that your car made it to 100,000 miles. Today, I'm always surprised when someone reports a major problem BEFORE 100,000 miles. I've got 160,000 mostly trouble free miles on a 17-year old car that was ranked among the LOWEST quality on the road in 1991.

Yes, car makers have cut costs to be competitive on price. But they've also improved vehicles in many other areas to be competitive on quality...and Hyundai is among the biggest of them. Today's Hyundai models are worlds better than the Accent of 1998 or the Excel of 1986 or the Pony of 1984. If you look at quality rankings, you'll see that the number of problems reported has gone down for almost all brands over the past 5, 10, 15, and 20 years. This is the measure of improved quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
You are wrong because you:
  • overestimate the size of Hyundai sales (the other I mentioned, have already bigger sales, but they have better resale value).
  • underestimate the comprehension, the apperception of Hyundai owners in recent times, because you are telling that even they have good cars with quality and they are happy with it, they accept a low resale value from the potential buyers.
[color=black][font=Arial]The Hyundai owners in recent times are not morons to sell low, something that has a great value (their car). [b]
Hyundai IS one of the largest selling brand in North America. It's a fact. In the US (I don't have the Canadian numbers in front of me), Hyundai ranks 9th.
Hyundai's resale value is not high because it take a long time for public perception (you being a good example of this) to catch up to the market's actual position. Hyundai does rank relatively high in all quality surveys of its current lineup.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:46 AM   #7
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
It's perfectly logical that quality would IMPROVE. The automotive industry is VERY competitive. It's competitive on price, on content, and on quality. A car today has FAR higher quality than of cars 20 or 30 years ago and is constantly improving. You see more of those older cars because there were more of those older cars...
My friend we have different opinions on this. So, can you tell me in what areas the auto makers cut the cost? Because you agree that they have to cut the cost. As I wrote before, quality is the easiest way to cut cost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
Quality is measured in terms of reliability, fit and finish, and durability.
I can not agree more on that. What of these have Hyundai? In my opinion, none. Or to be fair, the only good point from my experience is the finish, because the "body" of my Accent has no rusts in tde decade I have it.

You said durability (for the description of Quality). Do you find that my Accent has durability with all of these problems that appears?

But I disagree because my friend's OPEL Kadett of '78 is much more stronger, with better durability and general with better quality than my '98 Accent. The cars of the '70s and '80s were more durable, had better quality than the cars of the '90s (like mine) and the new millennium (above 2000). Even if the total number of the cars (af all brands) in '70s and '80s were less than the '90s and 2000+ (because every year sold new cars that increasing the total), we can found nowadays more old cars (25 years old) like the OPEL Kadett than new cars (of 10 years old) like mine. That shows us ONE THING: Old cars were more durable, with better quality than modern cars. Modern cars have advantage in the area of technical specifications (speed, accelaration, etc) and in Safety. Yes in the years that passed, car industries improved Safety (airbags, ABS, crash tests etc) but they reduce quality.

If I am wrong, why nobody till now, hasn't explain the "equations". You have read them. Can you explain WHY HYUNDAI -after more than 20 years in the game- HAS LOW RESALE VALUE ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
Hyundai's resale value is not high because it take a long time for public perception (you being a good example of this) to catch up to the market's actual position. Hyundai does rank relatively high in all quality surveys of its current lineup.
So the only explanation of Hyundais Low Resale Value is that the owners of Hyundais are morons? That they can understand that their cars are worthfull? In 20 years that HYUNDAI is in the game?
Sorry mate, but if HYUNDAI didn't succeed to persuade me that I own one of its cars (the Accent) and I have tested a decade, and if it hasn't persuade the whole market (cars owners) for the quality of its cars, then HYUNDAI has a serious problem.

So what do you suggest? That I should be happy for my choise (HYUNDAI) because my Accent in the first 5-6 years that I had it, it didn't appeared much problems? But I didn't bougt a vehicle for 5-6 years! If it Hyundai Accent has a quality to last only for 5-6 years, then it's not a car, it's a toy and a very expensive one!
Is it bad that I want my money (and yours) to have value?

And lets say for the goodfaith of the conversation that Hyundai finally improved the quality of its products. Because you and our friend lowsonome1999 agreed that in the older years Hyundai's quality was bad.
Can you tell me which is the "key"-year that Hyundai started to improve its bad quality?
So, all us the older Hyundai owners to know till what year Hyundai Motors fooled us, taking our money and selling us a toy that wants to call "car". I would appreciated if you tell me what is the key-year for Hyundais quality improvement.

And finally... see in this link the Warranty of Hyundai:
http://www.hellopeter.com/the_comment.asp?recid=138082
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:11 PM   #8
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Wow! You have an opinion which you like to express but have no wavering. That's conviction, no matter what other facts have been brought up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
My friend we have different opinions on this. So, can you tell me in what areas the auto makers cut the cost? Because you agree that they have to cut the cost. As I wrote before, quality is the easiest way to cut cost.
Where did we differ on our opinions here? I stated that it is possible to cut costs without cutting quality and you stated that the easiest way to cut cost was to cut quality. Why are these two thoughts mutually exclusive? You CAN cut costs by finding better priced suppliers or by removing details that the owner will never touch, and these things will not lower the quality of the vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
What of these have Hyundai? In my opinion, none. Or to be fair, the only good point from my experience is the finish, because the "body" of my Accent has no rusts in tde decade I have it.
As it has been pointed out earlier, your experience with Hyundai quality is ONE 1998 model year, entry-level vehicle. Since I have driven dozens of Hyundai models ranging from the 1993 Scoupe to the current lineup, I feel I have a bit wider range of experience than you. Modern Hyundais (ones built since, say 2000) have smooth engines, good fit and finish to interior and exterior panels, good gas mileage, reasonable power, and good reliability. And all that for a price lower than competitive vehicles. That sounds like a good quality car to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
You said durability (for the description of Quality). Do you find that my Accent has durability with all of these problems that appears?
Let's return to the point made by the other two posters (lowsonoma1999 and myself) on this thread: Hyundai has made vast improvements in quality since your car was built a decade ago. The description of how good or bad your vehicle is/was has very little to do with how good or bad the brand is today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
But I disagree because my friend's OPEL Kadett of '78 is much more stronger, with better durability and general with better quality than my '98 Accent.
And I'm sure that my 1991 Suzuki puts BOTH of these cars to shame. What's the point? These are three isolated vehicles. Your Accent should not be used as the base case for all of the Hyundais built over the past 35 years nor should your friend's Kadett be used to base Opel's quality over the past 110 years. Cars of today are FAR more durable than cars of the 1970s or 1980s because they live longer on average. Today's cars are EXPECTED to reach 10 years and 100,000 miles with little effort where 20 years ago, that was the exception and not the rule. Those 25-year old Kadetts are strong because those INDIVIDUAL vehicles have survived. How about the 98% of them that have not? Your measure of two generations of vehicles is based on the surviving few?

And even with all of the new technology, today's cars break down less, are less expensive to maintain on average, and last longer than cars of ANY OTHER ERA. It's a fact. Your two examples are the anomalies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
If I am wrong, why nobody till now, hasn't explain the "equations". You have read them. Can you explain WHY HYUNDAI -after more than 20 years in the game- HAS LOW RESALE VALUE ?...So the only explanation of Hyundais Low Resale Value is that the owners of Hyundais are morons?
No. My explanation is that people in general are short-sighted. You, for example, believe that ALL Hyundais are bad because you got one that has not lived up to your expectations. No matter that Hyundai has improved its quality in the last decade dramatically. No matter that Hyundai has introduced TWO generations of your car since, improving the designed-in quality each time. No matter that they feel confident enough that their accountants have allowed them to take the risk on a 10-year/100,000 mile warranty in the US.

If you look at Ford products, for example. Their quality ratings rank up with the best in their class and yet their resale values haven't climbed. On the other hand, Honda and Toyota's quality ratings have fallen a bit, and still you see their resale value high. Why is that? Because public opinion LAGS behind reality. Additionally, surveys lag behind reality since it simply takes time to gather the information...which takes additional time to inform the public and even more time for their opinions to change. Heck, YOU won't believe me and I have spent years working in the automotive industry, much closer to the products and the companies than you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Sorry mate, but if HYUNDAI didn't succeed to persuade me that I own one of its cars (the Accent) and I have tested a decade, and if it hasn't persuade the whole market (cars owners) for the quality of its cars, then HYUNDAI has a serious problem.
You just like to prove my point. You have owned ONE Hyundai. Hyundai has sold MILLIONS of cars and trucks since then. They've introduced dozens of models. And they have millions of satisfied customers. I don't think your one example is going to alter that fact that I can find you dozens who will tell the opposite story. I even know people who have had Hyundai Excels and they swear by (not at) them! I won't even defend that car...but they will. The point is not all that different than the one you're trying to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
So what do you suggest?
That you open your mind a little bit. You car is one out of ten million or so Hyundais built in recent years. Just because your car was bad, doesn't mean they haven't improved in a decade...half a generation!

If you don't want to buy another Hyundai, that's entirely up to you and it can be blamed on Hyundai's lagging quality oh so many years ago. I won't argue against you. But for you to say that your 10-year old car is the prime example of why Hyundai doesn't make good cars today, I'd have to say you're sadly misinformed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
And lets say for the goodfaith of the conversation that Hyundai finally improved the quality of its products. Because you and our friend lowsonome1999 agreed that in the older years Hyundai's quality was bad.
Interior quality, improved powertrains, higher quality materials, better suppliers...etc. You stating that your car hasn't rusted proves that they've found better quality metals since the 1980s. Why can't you believe that they have improved the rest of the car as well? The engine in your Accent was their first self-developed engine when it came out in 1992. Since then, they've improved their engines to the point that Hyundai's design was chosen over Mitsubishi's and Chrysler's when the three companies created the Global Engine joint-venture.

The world changes. Car companies improve or die. Hyundai has improved. You can choose to accept reality or deny it. It's your choice.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:00 PM   #9
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Thanks for the dialogue.
Let's say in goodfaith of our conversation that really Hyundai made some improvements in quality of its cars. Because really, I have an Accent from 1998.
Look at this link (it's not very big):

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/01381/car-crash-airbag-failure.html

So how do you explain the very bad behaviour on a crash of the Hyundai Tiburon that was bought at 2003, so is a new and suppose improved model?
Facts like this, make me think that finally Hyundai didn't improve its cars.
Makes me think that is still have bad cars. I want an answer.

Furthermore, even if Hyundai Motors improved in the last years, that doesn't excuse it for taking my money in 1998 when I bought my Accent (among a lot of other people that purchased Hyundais that time). I paid HYUNDAI and instead of a reliable car, it sell me an expensive vehicle-toy.
And when I mentioned the last problem to HYUNDAI HELLAS, nothing happened from them, and when then I refered to HYUNDAI MOTORS and HYUNDAI EUROPE it also nothing happened. No solution at all.
As I said before, I ask them to fix the problem for free. Why for free? Because the problem is inside the engine, so the engine is diseffective from the factory. In the decade that past, I didn't drove "angry", I didn't push hard the engine of Accent, I did all the services regulary only to expensive authorised points. And among all others, it appeard a problem inside the engine!!!
Sorry but it is unacceptable. It is a malfunction of a diseffective engine. They must fix it for free. But they don't.
Why the reliable firms do recall when they realize a problem?
They know my problem, I told them. Why they don't fix it?
The only answer from me: hyundai is still unreliable as a company. It has no after sales servive. They sell something to consumer and they forget him. Even if the consumer approach them, they ignore him.
So what is your opinion about that behaviour of Hyundai nowadays?
For me this behaviour from Hyundai is a furtive robbery of my money. As they did to many others that simply, don't speak. I will forgive them because that happened 10 years ago? Of course not. Or you think it's irrelative? Put yourself in my position. I am furius.
If I knew this behaviour of Hyundai in 1998, I wouldn't have bought the Accent.
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:26 PM   #10
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Let's say in goodfaith of our conversation that really Hyundai made some improvements in quality of its cars. Because really, I have an Accent from 1998.
Look at this link...
I know you're here just for argument's sake and that you want someone to defend your position, but that's not going to happen. Here's why.

Airbags are designed to fire in a relatively small range of collisions. This prevents the airbag from going off when, say, someone kicks your door or you bump the wall in your garage. Just because this Tiburon (and it could have been ANY model from ANY brand really) didn't fire the airbag doesn't mean that Hyundai has bad airbags. I don't know the angle of the accident since I wasn't there. Can't tell you any more about this particular case except that the service manager was wrong to say what he did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Facts like this, make me think that finally Hyundai didn't improve its cars.
"Facts like this?" You don't have many facts other than this was a Hyundai, the driver had an accident, and the airbag didn't deploy. You don't know the details of the accident to see if the airbag SHOULD have deployed. Since the driver is still alive when someone hit him doing 65 mph, I'm going to say that he wasn't broadsided (where the airbad definitely should have deployed). Other than that, you have few facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Furthermore, even if Hyundai Motors improved in the last years, that doesn't excuse it for taking my money in 1998 when I bought my Accent (among a lot of other people that purchased Hyundais that time). I paid HYUNDAI and instead of a reliable car, it sell me an expensive vehicle-toy.
Sure...let's discuss your problems:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[size=3][font=Times New Roman]I own a HYUNDAI Accent from 1998 and have only 92.000 klms (that would be about 65.000 miles).
Car that's more than 10 years old...go on...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
HYUNDAI cars generally may be cheap to buy...
You get what you pay for. You didn't expect a Lexus, did you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
...it has poor construction quality
...again, you expected a Lexus for $10k?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
...it appears often mechanical and electrical malfunctions...
What kind? Does it leave you stranded? How often?
Quote:
...the fuel consumption usually is bigger than this described by its book...
Have you read "the book?" The part where it says "your mileage may vary." Fuel economy estimates are just that...ESTIMATES. You will be hard pressed to find anyone who can match the fuel economy numbers in "the book," which are to be used for comparison purposes only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
...it has expensive genuine parts so an EXPENSIVE SERVICE...
Cars aren't cheap. And no matter what brand of car you buy, the parts and service from the dealer are going to be more expensive than going to NAPA. That's where the dealer makes his money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
...it burns lots of oils inside its engine...
Did I miss the part where this car was 10 years old? When cars age, they tend to use more oil, even to the point of needing it on a regular basis. You've got an older car...again, doesn't matter what brand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
when I drive I hear sounds and “cracks” from the main body and the plastics of the car...
See the above reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
In the long term, I EXPERIENCED ALL THESE PROBLEMS. My opinion is absolutely NEGATIVE for HYUNDAI generally.
I'm betting that this is your FIRST new car. As you learn more about cars, you'll see that many of these problems are NOT unique to your experience here.

You purchased the entry-level model from an entry-level brand and you expected it to perform like a Toyota or Honda priced at 2-3 times as much? There's a reason why it's less expensive. And there's a reason why you didn't buy a Toyota or Honda. You get what you pay for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
...I ask them to fix the problem for free. Why for free? Because the problem is inside the engine, so the engine is diseffective from the factory.
You asked for the dealer to pay for a problem with a more than 10-year old car? Good luck to you no matter where you got the vehicle. NO COMPANY is going to stand by their 10-year old vehicle, no matter how gentle you are on the engine. They have NO RESPONSIBILITY for your car outside of the warranty range. If there's a defect in the engine, it will show up in the first few thousand miles. If it has lasted for 100k and 10 years without failing, there are no major defects. And recalls aren't on engine defects for 10-year old cars.

You can be as mad as you want. You should be realistic, which you're not. The car is old. If it doesn't meet with your expectations a decade after it was built, get rid of it and move to a vehicle built in this century. Anyone who has spent as little as you have and had personal transportation as long as you have shouldn't be complaining about the car's quality. Sounds like you got more than your money's worth out of it.
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:21 PM   #11
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Goodafternoon,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
The car is old. If it doesn't meet with your expectations a decade after it was built, get rid of it and move to a vehicle built in this century. Anyone who has spent as little as you have and had personal transportation as long as you have shouldn't be complaining about the car's quality.
But you in a previous comment answered to me that the cars of the new era and of any brand, are better than cars of older years. You said that the new cars will last more miles than the old. That is a theoritical statement.
The fact is that my friend's 30 years old OPEL Kadett (of the year 1978) is much more durable and quolitive than mine Hyundai Accent of 1998 (only 10 years old).
So what is more possible to be right? A theoritical statement or a fact?

In all of your comments you insist that Hyundai in the last years did improved the quality of its cars. This is a statement.
When I bought my Accent in 1998, the seller had told me "Doesn't matter if Hyundai is not known yet, that is a car with quality".
I believe his statement and I bought the car. His statement was wrong by ignorence or by purpose to fool me.
With a small research to internet, I find serious problems to the new made Hyundai cars of the recent years (like 2006). See the link:

http://my.opera.com/skid94/blog/2007...onata-problems

Ouch!!! Where is the quality of new Hyundais? As you read this vehicle left their owners on the side of a busy highway. This is a serious problem that can happen only to cars with no quality.

Also, the link that I mentioned before with the crash, is a real accident, a real crash and the owner of this Hyundai doesn't share the same opinion with you. He is clearly speaking about low Hyundai's crashworthiness. In a real accident. Everyone that read us here, don't you think that your life worth much more than the "way" that Hyundai protects you? Safety and Hyundai are two totally different meanings.

So I mentioned two real fact, not theoritical statements, that Hyundai owners have the worst opinion for their cars. These are facts, not theoritical statements. And between theoritical statements and facts, I prefer facts.

What is the conclusion? HYUNDAI STILL HAS NO QUALITY, STILL HAS SERIOUS PROBLEMS. But Hyundai's defenders say to us "No, No, now Hyundai change, improved its cars, has quality". Why must I believe them?
Is it possible some funs of Hyundai or company's representatives or someone who has interests connected with Hyundai Motors, to say the truth? No!
Only the real owners like me and like the two other people in the occasions I mentioned in the links, can say the truth. And I bought my Hyundai in 1998 (has no quality) and they bought their Hyundais in recent years (still no quality). So who is telling the truth here?

Of course someone, maybe you or a Hyundai's representative, can say that these are only two exambles in thousands of sales. If you do this (you or anybody else) is a huge mistake because :

a) There are lots of others "exambles" of Hyundai worthless and someone can find plenty of them in the internet. Problems of old Hyundais but and with new Hyundais. Real problems from real owners.

b) If you accept that are sporadic cases, then you delete the customer-oriented philosophy that every company must have. So Hyundai show to us that is not customer - oriented. Hyundai cares only to sell cars to consumers and then forget them or/and ignore them, when there is a proven fault of the factory.

Even one car in thousand to have problem by some diseffective meterial, the Company must fix it, no matter how many years passed. That is what it does a trustwothy car company, a reliable one, that respect its customers, that Hyundai doesn't.

And finally for this comment I repeat: if HYUNDAI makes cars to last 5-6 years only, we must know it. That's the quality of Hyundai = 0 (zero, in the past and in the present).
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:28 PM   #12
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Ok, I'm going to jump back in this, because this is just plain ridiculous. Your logic and reasoning is so totally out of this world, I wonder what kind of education you have. You point out a couple instances where Hyundais have had trouble. Look at this one. http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...-air-bags.html Or maybe this one. http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...ettlement.html Both of those from the same site that you posted about the wrecked Tiburon. There are posts about airbags not deploying in a Lexus. Oh my god, the brand that is supposed to be prime example of quality, their air bags aren't deploying. This must mean that their quality is in the sh***er too. Oh, and the 2nd one is oil sludge. A very common problem in Toyotas. Back in 2000 and 2001, I worked at Pep Boys, a large service facility chain here in the states. We replaced I don't know how many engines in Toyotas. Mainly told customers that it was due to lack of maintenance. But it looks like it ended up a poor design by Toyota. Man, these are both huge. Toyotas must really suck. Might as well buy an Isuzu. You look on a website dedicated to lawsuits. Do you think you'd find anything good to say about a brand on that site? Yeah right. People post issues they have. Hardly ever does somebody make a thread about their car that had 75k miles on it, and they have no problems. How boring would that be? You b***h and whine about Hyundai not giving you everything you want for free on a 10 year old car. Go find another car company that will replace your engine for you when you are out of warranty by that much. Here in the states, Hyundai came out with a 10yr/100k mile powertrain warranty starting in 1999. We have replaced engines and transmission on cars that are 8 years old, with 90k miles on it before, providing the customer can prove they have maintained the car. I have actually had a customer come in at 50k miles with a blown engine that have never changed the oil. She claimed that they shouldn't have to change the oil, it has a 100k mile warranty on it. Somebody at whatever dealer they bought the car from just failed to inform them because it has a long warranty, it doesn't mean you don't have to maintain the vehicle. My '90 CRX I bought back in 1999. Ok, add this up, only 9 years old, with 80k miles. I put two distributers in the car within a year. The 2nd one, the igniter under the distributer cap actually caught fire, and melted everything under it. Do you think Honda would warranty this for me? I think not. I couldn't even get the distributer I bought from them a year earlier warrantied, because I had put over 12k miles on that car since then. Should I go after Honda corporate and tell them that this factory defect made me late for work, and cost me money towing to the shop, and I want reimbursed for everything? They would have laughed in my face. And even back in 1990, Honda had already been around for almost 20 years in the states, and had built their reputation up as being a quality car. So does this one defect mean that their cars are junk, NO. Every manufacturer has their downfalls. Honda is known for bad distributers, axles, and rear control arms on older Accords failing. GM trucks are known for bad front suspension and steering components. Chrysler, bad transmission and rear differentials. GM cars for water pump and intake leaking issues. Toyotas for sludge. Speaking of Toyota. The '98 Camry I own now was originally purchased for my wife when she got into doctoral school, by her parents. The day after she bought it, the battery went bad. A week after it was towed to the dealer, they called her to tell her it was done and she owed $500 for damage to the shifter. Not only did not they call to authorize any additional work to be done, but the damage was done by the tow company that TOYOTA dispatched to pick the car up. Another two weeks later, she finally got her car back. Couple years later, she bought an Olds Bravada and gave the car back to her parents. Her mother cannot drive anymore, so thats why it was given back to us. You are basing your opinion on Hyundai, on your own opinion and what few stories you find on ther internet. I said in an earlier post that I would have never bought the Camry if it wasn't given to me. Would I buy a Toyota? No. Is it because of my experience with all the issues I've had with this Camry? No. I wouldn't buy a Toyota because I don't like the design of their cars. This Camry is probably the most boring car I've ever owned, and I've owned a lot. All of their cars are boring in my opinion, and lack style. The only one I would halfway consider is the Corolla, but I like the Elantra better. So for less money, I'd buy an Elantra. I do like the design of the new Civic more than the Elantra though, so if I was to buy another small car, it would be between the Elantra and the Civic. Civic being more expensive, but I like the design more. Both with similar gas mileage, but a much better warranty with the Hyundai, and with as much as my wife drives, that is a big factor.

I could go on and on, but it's getting late, and I have to work in the morning. If you are so unhappy with your car, get rid of it and go buy something else. Same thing I did with my Accord. It had issues, I didn't feel like dumping a ton of money into it, so I got rid of it and went on with my life. I didn't spend hours on the internet finding examples of Hondas with issues so I could back my claim up. I just hope someone closes this thread, and we can all go on our happy way. Hudson and I enjoying our Hyundai, and you can go searching for a '78 Opel.
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:14 AM   #13
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

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Originally Posted by lowsonoma1999
Ok, I'm going to jump back in this, because this is just plain ridiculous. Your logic and reasoning is so totally out of this world, I wonder what kind of education you have. You point out a couple instances where Hyundais have had trouble. Look at this one. http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/lexus-air-bags.html Or maybe this one. http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/settlements/06920/toyota-oil-sludge-settlement.html Both of those from the same site that you posted about the wrecked Tiburon. There are posts about airbags not deploying in a Lexus. Oh my god, the brand that is supposed to be prime example of quality, their air bags aren't deploying.
That statement of yours is very good because proves the right of my opinion that I stated from my first comments: that new players in a market ca't have the quality that have the old players. I never said something good about L... brand. You said. The L.... brand is new player in the Luxury cars section. And guess what... you show to me that has no enough good quality! I agree. As also, Hyundai is a relative new player in the middle cars section (is about 20 year+ in the market) and still has NO QUALITY. And as the years passing, the quality getting worse. The L.... brand when appeared in the market had better quality -as many people said then- than the classical car makers of this market section because wanted to gain customers. Now that gained customers and fans, reduced its quality. That statement of yours only proving that I have right. As the years passing, all of the car industries reduce the quality of the products in an attempt to have lower cost = better profit.
I never said that only Hyundai has quality problems. But I care most for Hyundai that I own. The other guys that have prpoblems with their other brand cars, can speak for themselves. No one prevent them. I don't. Do you?
Hyundai that I own, had not quality and as I proved, it seems that still hasn't.
So I am happy that you finally agreed with me, telling that Hyundai hadn't quality in 1998 and hasn't even nowadays. You agree that when a new player in a market becomes old, have customers size and fans, reduces what? .... reduces quality... you said that with your examble with L..... brand. I never defended the L..... brand because I don't have my own opinion.
I have a Hyundai and I accusing this company that fooled me and sold me a worthless car and I have a claim. To fix at least, the last serious problem for free. Otherwise Hyundai is unreliable, with no quality, not customer-oriented.
We have the words (you and every other defender of Hyundai are telling words) and facts (diseffective car of mine... yes! 10 years old... it's a fossil!!!). What we must believe? The worthless words or the real acts? Hyundai just don't care fot its customers!

By telling that Hyundai (and other brands, but I don't care about others) has a "quality" that last only 5-6 years and I must be pleased with that, you only admitt that HYUNDAI HASN'T QUALITY and with your statement, showing that you don't care for each customer.

You musn't do comparisons by chosing the worse. The comparison must be made by looking the best in its field and trying to reach him. That's how a company with any product, becomes better. So don't tell me about others, tell me about Hyundai.
Of course if you want to speak about others, I can do that.

P/S: May be Hyundai in US has a big warranty, but this happens -I believe- because a lot of people don't trust it. Furthermore, how do I know that it has no tricks?

See the link for Hyundai warranty:
http://www.hellopeter.com/the_comment.asp?recid=138082

Sofianopoulos Panayiotis (sofpan)
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:01 AM   #14
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

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Originally Posted by sofpan
That statement of yours is very good because proves the right of my opinion that I stated from my first comments: that new players in a market ca't have the quality that have the old players.
You keep missing the point I'm trying to make: one vehicle is an anomaly. Whether it's ONE 30-year old Opel that's done well or ONE 10-year old Hyundai that hasn't, they're not the norm.

The experience of two people with two cars is not a survey of the entire production and definitely can't be used to compare the progress of automotive engineering in the past three decades. I can show you DOZENS of cars from 1977 that, in comparison, will make your Accent look like a Rolls-Royce!

Please understand, I've worked in and around the automotive industry for many years. I do know what I'm talking about. Your experience with your Accent and your friend's Kadett does not make for a good basis of knowledge. I've driven hundreds of cars and trucks in the time that you've owned that one and I can definitely tell you that technology, engineering, and quality have IMPROVED in that time...for Hyundai and for everyone else.

You can argue all you want about how your THEORY is right, but it's not. My statements are based solidly in fact where yours are based merely on your experience with ONE CAR.

The links you have supplied may be real accidents, but you, again, missed the point of how you don't have all of the facts. Airbags should NOT go off in all accidents and how do you know that they should have deployed in this one? You are simply guessing that it should have.

What is the conclusion? You're basing your theory on one car. Today's Hyundais are designed to last well over a decade because they warranty them in the US for 10 years. And it is IMPOSSIBLE to make every customer happy. Your car doesn't have any problems that I wouldn't expect from ANY 10 year old car, and yet you think it's simply because you bought a Hyundai. THIS lack of experience is why you can't make every customer happy.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:17 AM   #15
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

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You keep missing the point I'm trying to make: one vehicle is an anomaly. Whether it's ONE 30-year old Opel that's done well or ONE 10-year old Hyundai that hasn't, they're not the norm.
Don't you think that there are to many anomalies, all against me?

First anomaly: my 1998 Accent that wold be better than a middle 1978 car, is proven to be worse.

Second anomaly: my friend's Kadett of 1978, even if the rule -as you say- is that "the older, the worse", have last better than my Hyundai.

Isn't this strange? Is this logical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
I can show you DOZENS of cars from 1977 that, in comparison, will make your Accent look like a Rolls-Royce!
Yes I would appreciate if you show me because I am not an easy believer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
Please understand, I've worked in and around the automotive industry for many years. I do know what I'm talking about.
I respect your experience. But you ought to admitt that you have some special interests that connecting you with Hyundai Motors. Remember: the salesman when I bought my Accent back in 1998, told me that it was a quality car. The facts made him liar.

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Originally Posted by Hudson
My statements are based solidly in fact where yours are based merely on your experience with ONE CAR.
Yes. One car = One customer = me = unhappy customer from Hyundai diseffectice engine and bad quality car.
Do you want to say that my car happened to be one diseffective car? Let's say it. Don't Hyundai showing the respect that ought to have to a customer, have to fix it, accepting its fault? If not, then it doesn't respect me. And as It doesn't respect me, tomorrow Hyundai will not respect you, when a Hyundai car that you drive, will appear a problem.
So If Hyundai doesn't respect my right claim, even if it is for ONE car in thousands, it will do it again, with someone else, when again a car of theirs appear a problem of their fault.

No respect to one Customer = No respect to any Customer = Not Customer-oriented.

And I, in basc economics, I learned that "Customer has always right".

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Originally Posted by Hudson
The links you have supplied may be real accidents...
.
They are real accidents. It is obvious by the details.
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