Need advice on modding exhaust on 2000 TA

[Netskimmer]

I am thinking about getting some short pipe headers for my 2000 Trans Am I had considered getting dual exhaust but the only setup I could find for my car was about $1,000 just for the pipe, A few people suggested getting the headers, a couple of Flowmasters and cat. converters and taking it to this custom exhaust place nearby and having them run the pipe and install everything. The whole car is pretty much stock at this point except for the muffler which I know nothing about other than it is too loud to be stock and the custom hood I put on it.

I have no intention of racing the car, its just an every day driver, except in the winter of course. But I would like to give it a really good sound and I intend to mod the engine to give it more hp. I don’t know much about cars mechanically speaking and I am learning as I go. Do you think this kind of exhaust system is overkill?

[gmack221]

The reason for shorty headers is ground clearance on the camaro/trans am, needless to say its definitly a good idea & will give you a small amount of torque, and better performance. Taking it to an exhaust place is a good idea, but you need to make sure they can make mandrel bends in the tubing (smooth bends), we've all seen the exhaust fittings at a parts store with all the wrinkles in the bend, thats bad for performance, so make sure you get mandrel bends! Also make sure they use good pipe, since I live in Ohio there is alot of salt on the roads (not that my T/A see's it, but still), I see so many people put cheap pipe on & in a year or two it rust off. I'd also price the flowmasters & converters thru the exhaust place, sometimes they can get them cheaper then you can, depends on markup. This route may be kinda pricey ... price a cat back system thru your exhaust place. Sure you will not get all of the performance, but it will sound better & give some of the performance at a cheaper price. Tell the place you have do it you might add headers & better cats at a later date, they might suggest doing something different to make that easier & cheaper when you do it.

Lastly there is no such thing as overkill in modding an engine! The exhaust is a good place to start, that way its not your bottle neck in performance when you start adding parts to the engine.

[Netskimmer]

Thanks for the response,


“The reason for shorty headers is ground clearance on the camaro/trans am, needless to say its definitely a good idea & will give you a small amount of torque, and better performance.”

It is my understanding that short headers favor low end (low rpm) torque while long headers favor high end (high rpm) horse power. Since I don’t race I don’t really hit high rpm’s much high end power would not be of much use to me. Low end torque on the other hand leads to more takeoff power which would come in handy while driving city streets. This is reason I opted for short pipes over long ones.

“make sure they use good pipe”

What would be good pipe and what wouldn’t be?

“price a cat back system thru your exhaust place”
I could give that a try but I have looked at several cat back systems from Flowmaster, Magnaflow and Borla for 98-02 Trans Am but they are all “Y” pipe configurations, not dual exhaust regardless of price.

[poormillionaire2]

Shorties are a waste of money. They barely give any gains over the stock manifolds. Mids are a good compromise if you don't want longtubes. The only companies I know of that make true-duals that are bolt-on are TSP or Bassani. But you have to have longtubes for the TSP system.

[Netskimmer]

It’s not that I don’t want long tubes it was simply my understanding that short tubes would provide the most gain in performance given my driving style. I took a look at TSP and Bassani. I didn’t see any Bassani duel exhaust systems for Camaro/Firebird but they did have one for the Corvette. All the systems for Camaro where Y pipe. I found a TSP system that looks promising but as you said it is designed for long tube so I’ll need to get this whole long tube vs. short tube thing straightened out, no pun intended, before I decide if I want to go that rout.

As far as long tube vs. short tube, I’ve been cruising the net and it seems that half the discussions about this end in stalemate and the others end with one winner but at about 50/50 on which side of the argument wins. Is there no way to get a definitive answer here?



I don’t really care who wins I just want to get the right part for the task at hand. My car is a DD with a lot of start-stop city street driving and I very rarely get above 3k on the tach, my main concern is takeoff power acceleration (0-60), not top speed. What headers would be best? Or should I just say piss on it and stick with the manifolds and use the money to get a 90mm throttle body and intake manifold or something?

[poormillionaire2]

Here's the Bassani tru-dual system I was talking about. Its 3" over-the-axle rear-exit system w/ x-pipe. Costs a pretty penny, but they match up with stock manifolds. I've heard they can also be made to match up with LT's or mids.

http://www.lmperformance.com/5795/1.html

Don't waste your money on shorties, if anything, get mids. You will regret getting shorties. I have heard it from many people. If you get shorties, you'll get in the car, drive it after the install and say, "Where the F- did my $700 go?" There is practically no difference. Mids are definately a good compromise. And with headers, its not a 'gain or loss' or low-end torque, they just move it up the RPM band.

[skibum1111]

To get true dual exhaust you will have to go custom. I looked for dual for a 2000 ss, couldn't find anything. Got a couple of quotes from the local shops for custom bent pipe, ended up not doing it and left it ~mostly~ stock for the time being.

[philly rs]

hell unless u droped your car over an inch long tubes wont be a problem at all..and they sound bad ass!!!! even on a ls1..cause we all know that sound of longs on a LT is good old muscle car music from back in the day!!!

[Netskimmer]

Originally Posted by skibum1111

To get true dual exhaust you will have to go custom. I looked for dual for a 2000 ss, couldn't find anything. Got a couple of quotes from the local shops for custom bent pipe, ended up not doing it and left it ~mostly~ stock for the time being.

Are you saying that the exsaust system poormillionaire2 linked to and this one from TSP http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/cate...MID=1&catid=56 are not true dual? I do have my concerns about the Bassani system as it is twice the price of the TSP system and both pipes share one muffler.


What you guys are saying regarding the headers is get longs if you have the ground clearance, otherwise get mids, correct?

Should I pay extra for tuned headers?

[G.A.S.]

I worked for an exhaust shop for years. Far from an expert but have a little knowledge.
As for the headers. go with the mids/shorties. this style of car doesent need that bump in the road, or a railroad track taking your new system off.
I am thinking on the lines you said it is stock.
True duels is a trade mark not true duel exhaust systems. Look at the system, there is one muffler.
A true duel exhaust consists of two of each. No x pipe, no cats, nothing.
One exhaust pipe, muffler and tailpipe per side. period.
The addition of the cats is purely emisions and you will get a check engine light, and more power with out them . Use um and loose power. Leave um and get that sticker for your window.
The cross over for the headers ruines an exhaust. The reason they made those was both pipes had to be bent to one side of the car and then back over when makeing a real duel exhaust on that style car. I've done many.
90% of the muffler shops grab a pipe off the hanger. its pre bent. same as buying from a supplyer. Its purely convieneance. YOU can install it yourself.
If your leaving your cats, (sugested for your emisions) Do the shorties, 2 1/4" pipe, flowmaster mufflers out the back. You will be more than pleased.
Do some snooping arround and find a garage that bends there own pipe to custom fit. I dont know where you live but my area has small garages where guys like myself only bent pipe. And, Go to a local steal supply and buy your own pipe. You will chit at the cost. Half the price. same thing, different supplyer. all you need is the specs of the pipe.
My expereance is that there is a 500% mark up in exhaust repairs in parts alone at an exhaust shop.
Keep in mind future things you may do too.
say lower tires/rims.
this will create an issue with ground clearance and effecting your decission now on whitch header to get.
shorties will keep the cat up higher in a tighter area.
so in a nut shell.
I would do shorties, cats, individual 2 1/4" exhaust pipes, no X pipe, (you have done nothing to the engine and they can be added any time) individual 2 1/4" flowmasters, over the axel taile pipes right straight out the back.
they snapp.

I was just re-reading post and fhillys input is deffinatlly good if you have the clearance. Mush deeper sound with longs
Those were the days when cars were cars and everyone was nervous

[Netskimmer]

I don’t see why X pipes would be bad, as long as the coupling didn’t bottleneck airflow it shouldn’t really matter and it would equalize the backpressure between the two pipes.

I’ve done some reading and the consensus seems to be that X pipes do help in equalizing the pressure and produce a little more HP through improved scavenging. H pipes do pretty much the same thing but trade a little of the extra HP for better sound and both X and H pipes would produce a nice sound but at a lower decibel rate than straight pipes. Given all of this it would seem that H pipes are the way to go. I don’t need to wring every little but of HP I can out of my car and good sound is important to me. What do you guys think?

I haven’t dropped the car at all but do live in a rural area and often find myself on gravel roads and blacktop in poor condition, do you thing longs would be too dangerous?

Why use 2 ¼” pipe? The air flow wouldn’t add up to much more than my 3” Y pipe.

[poormillionaire2]

For a street car, there is no difference tuned-length hearders and non tune-lengthed headers.

As far as X, H, or straight pipes, X-pipes are the way to go, exactly for the reasons you mentioned. And you may not like the straight-pipes because each side is only responsible for 4 cylinders. It won't balance the exhaust out like the X or H pipes will.

And if you go to an exhaust shop, make sure they have a mandrel bender. They will flow better than crimped bends.

And whatever you do, don't get SLP longtubes. They have the worst ground clearance out of any of the companies out there for the LS1.

And the TSP true-duals are real duals. They feature an X-pipe and that is it. You even get your choice of mufflers.

[Netskimmer]

"As far as X, H, or straight pipes, X-pipes are the way to go, exactly for the reasons you mentioned."

Because they give a little more HP but don't sound as good as H pipes?

[G.A.S.]

the 2 1/4" pipe is for sound. That was in your original post, You were looking for sound.
the system I discribed will give you not only a snap on take offs, Be going 20 and bump the gas, you'll turn heads. but say your on the highway doing 60 and kick it in the ass, You will have a grin on your face from ear to ear and you'll draw attention from everyone.
You can change this on a stock engine as well.
Go 2 1/4 exhaust pipes off the headers and go with 2" tail pipes.
Now there is a sound of its own. You are not defeeting anything because your engine is stock.
I went so far as to put 2 1/4" right out the back with no mufflers on a stock engine but it sounded like shit.
I just put duels on my sons 89 blazer as discribed above and I love to drive it. Bump the gas and yepp, uh ha, thats the sound.
It would be benificial if you knew some people that had different systems you could listen to. And remember, You cant listen to a built engines exhaust and get the same sound from yours.
As for the x or h pipe, Why. Your not built. You have no need to do anything with back pressure with 2 1/4" flow out each side individually.
Looks cool and is a good conversation piece but other than that it is not a need.
Just my two cents

[Netskimmer]

How does smaller pipes make better sound? More pressure in the exhaust system, or do the smaller pipes improve the acoustics? Please understand that I’m mot continuously questioning everyone’s input because I think you don’t know what your talking about, it’s because I don’t know what you talking about. As I said I’m fairly new to all of this and I’m just trying to get a firm grasp of what’s going on and what you are saying.

While sound is important to me, performance is as well. My engine may be stock at the moment but that will change. I’m not sure what exactly I’m going to do to it but I have a whole list of possibilities. New intake manifold, throttle body, MAF, cold air induction, Cylinder heads, cams, ect… and the list seems to grow daily. I plan to get started once I get the exhaust system figured out and installed. I’m sure when that times comes I’ll start another thread asking which parts to focus on and in what order given my goals but for now I’m just trying to figure out the exhaust which is proving quite a challenge in itself.