5.0 Mustang vs 1g GSX Plus a tune-up Question

[Nitrous5.0]

I work for a company who does plumbing work on government buildings a lot (bangor WA) and a few of the guys there are really into fast cars and racing. One guys got a 11sec late 60's camaro, another has a 350z w/ a 150 shot+ some other stuff, there's a ls1 camaro one guy has (might be selling to me next month ), the 2 fastest cars there (excluding the old camaro since he only races at tracks) are a z32, and a 1g AWD talon w/ a 20g.
Ive never seen the 300zxtt but the guy with the talon uses his car as a daily driver and i see it every day, sounds real mean and looks like serious 1/4 mile car as far as numbers go. suppose to run mid-low 12s.

I dont remember all his mods and i dont know too much about DSMs but as far as mods go he had a 20g turbo, built 5speed trans, fuel system, exhaust, computer, FMIC, and some other things.
My car is a 90 GT with a build/3k stalled AOD, forged rods/pistons, e/h/i/h/c, 4.10s, BFG G-force t/a RDs (works fu**ing excellent might i add), detroit locker, NX 150 shot, walboro 255lph, 34mm injectors, weight reduced to under 3000lbs with me in it, and some other stuff.
It ran an crappy 13.5 @113 with no tune, stock 1600~rpm stall, 3250lb street weight, and bald traction-less street tires, without the NX kit, spinning like a crazy ass perv mofo.

The guy with the talon lives pretty close to where i use to go to school, so we decided to meet up there and go over to this long straight desolate road that has nothing but a huge farm field on one side and woods on the other where we could safely race.

Once we get there, i get into the oncoming lane and slow down to a stop (this road is Loooong and there were no other cars within sight and i easily slow down and change lanes if a car did come) and he gets beside my car and stops as well and says "READY"..i hold the breaks and spin the all the slack out of my converter, he raises his revs as well, "3..2..1..GO" and i ram the gas pedal to the floor as fast as i can without causing wheel spin.
I immediately gain at least 2-3 car lengths maby more, and i was pulling on him all the way until he hit 3rd, where i had a good 6-7-8 ~~ cars on him when he slowly stopped loosing ground, and by 125~ he cut my lead to a good solid 5-6 car lengths. where I shut it down and surprisingly got a fly-by from him lol. he was cool about it though.

The next few races were pretty much the same, until we raced from 45mph. It started off the same way as the others, the "321 go" and i pulled a car or 2 on him, and by 130~ i had a 2-3 car lead.

I had a lot of fun, we both put about the same amount of money into our cars. I was about to buy a pre-modified 16g powered 1g gsx before i got my mustang, glad i didnt though.




Oh and the tuning question i had, i still dont have a good tune yet, and i was wondering what exactly the tuning shops do that would make it worth $1000 to me (thats what Blood works Tuning or whatever its named wants), i thought they just put it on a dyno and fiddled with the timing and fuel.

[drftk1d]

that sounds hot, where does everyone get all those fast cars? lol

your man in the talon must learn to launch (well unless he was on street tires).

[sganc4life_4]

The talon should have pulled you easy if he had a 20g...hes a crap driver.

[clawhammer]

It was a AWD talon? He should've been able to keep up with your from the launch, even if you had drag radials. Good race though.

[TatII]

that mustang traps 113mph that is no joke. definitly has excellent top end for a 5.0

[Sleepr awd]

yes indeed a crap driver, trade cars and see what happens then!!!

good race, 5.0's are mean when modded

[nissanfanatic]

Tuning shops have a dyno for one thing...

Then they have a wideband sensor. Widebands detect how much oxygen is in your exhaust to determine Air/Fuel ratio. Hence 13:1, 15:1, ect. That means 13 units of air per one unit of fuel. Typically you tune to roughly 12.5-12.8:1 for maximum power, but it can differ depending on simple things such as ambient temperature.

The greatest tool IMO at a dyno is the ability to read the torque curve. If you make adjustments and the torque curve goes down, then you messed up. You should immediatly go the opposite direction. If it still goes down, then whatever you were at before was right.

Timing is the MAIN thing that shoudl be addressed when you are on the dyno. A lot of people usually obsess over Air/Fuel ratio, but the fact of the matter is, running lean will not kill your engine immediatly. Running too much timing will kill your engine within a matter of seconds. What you are exactly trying to do is ignite the charge at the right crank angle to where Peak Cylinder Pressure is created at roughly 15 degrees After Top Dead Center. This Peak Cylinder Pressure occuring at the right crank angle is what makes your oh so sweet torque. Which ties directly in with what I said before. Make small timing advances from a KNOWN safe point(something rediculously low) and slowly make your way up until the torque curve begins to drop back down or when you see "chunks" missing. Signs of detonation. Power and reliability go hand in hand. You can do the same thing with fuel, but running richer will usually require more timing advance. Prolly better off just tuning to 12.5:1 at WOT and fiddling with timing on that.

I don't know what you are using for fuel management or even WTF a 34mm injector is... But I woudl advise you install something to TUNE with. And for god sakes...don't be spraying without verifying timing and air fuel ratios are at least somewhat in check... No matter how "built" your engine is, Peak Cylinder Pressure seems to always get teh best of you no matter how low it is..

Oh, and you could prolly use a better circuit on your Walbro. Check this out for ideas: http://www.ka-t.org/tech Third article down.

[CassiesMan]

Originally Posted by Nitrous5.0

Oh and the tuning question i had, i still dont have a good tune yet, and i was wondering what exactly the tuning shops do that would make it worth $1000 to me

Keep your car from blowing up...

[crunchymilk55]

I don't think the DSM'er was launching, or else things may have been different. I don't know 5.0's and I won't pretend like I do, but fully supported 20g's along with AWD = fierce 1/4

[rice(er)]

nice race......

off topic: what happened to this forum, i cant click on anyone's profile

and TAT, i see you are a naruto fan, wo0t....wanna fight? i'll use my secret-never-before-seen ninjutsu hashinori style! hii-yah!

[TatII]

i'm a naruto fan but i don't really play the games online since i don't have a clue on what your talkin about lol. i just read the manga and sometimes watch the anime.

[209 SRT]

nice race......but if he did have a gsx he should have had you on the launch if he launched right and with his 20g should have kept with you but none the less good kill and dont blow your motor with all that spray......sounds like you have a pretty mean set up there wouldnt want it to go to waste......if you know what I mean...

[Nitrous5.0]

thanks for your comments, and nissanfanatic thanks for explaining that for me i really appreciate it.

I was going to have one of my dads friends whos a mechanic take a look at it and tune it as best as he could. All I know is he has some kind of expensive scanner and 1 or 2 other things like that but he doesnt have a dyno so i think i might just see if i can find more reasonably priced professional shop to do it if i can. something for around $600 if i can.

Also the eclipse might have some kind of clutch problem. Starting to slip i guess, and i was spraying off the line, which gave me my edge.

but that car of his is pretty impressive. im thinking of getting a cheap one (probably fwd since theyre cheaper/easier to find around here) and making it into a daily driver that i can throw a few mods into myself, make it a roll racer to race from a roll with heh. they're fun cars.

[Sleepr awd]

...AWD is worth it...just wait..................... or give one to me if you dont' want the AWD

[2000LS1Z28]

I don't understand most of these posts. This dude has a stall convertor, heads/cam/intake/headers, and a 150 shot of nitrous oxide. He also has drag radials. Just cause an AWD car usually has an advantage against a car on street tires doesn't mean that AWD is better then RWD, as it is a proven point that RWD is better once you start getting serious about drag racing. I know this is an LS1, but look at his 60' time:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/etdb_slip.php?id=661
You're not gonna have an AWD advantage on a car that is geared to launch with a stall converter and slicks/dr's. I personally was put up against a 90'ish heavily modified 5.0 in my former Evo. When he cut a 1.3 sec. 60', I got to feel the pucker factor, as he wheelied away. The author's car is easily a low 12 sec./ high 11 sec. car on drag radials/slicks. Dunno if he sprayed though, as obviously all motor the race would be close.