I Know This Is Stupid

[93AcIntegra]

Ive heard alot of people say different stuff and i dont know what to believe so i am asking you guys.....whats the differene between short ram air and cold air intake

[scallywag]

Short ram is like it sounds. It is short. It's filter is just to the left of the head, and sucks air from the top of the motor bay. Cold air intake is longer, the pipe snakes arond and eventually ends up down right in front of your front passenger tire. Thus is sucks colder air than the short ram since the short ram sucks air from the hottest part of the bay. Cold air is denser so by the cold air intake taking in colder air (due to where it is located) it will make a bit more power! make sense?

[tsugsr]

only at idle will a cold air truely make that much difference, Ive seen a test on Team-integra.net that showed while moving the temperature at the filter element of a short ram was the same as the outside temperature....i found that info to be pretty interesting.

[scallywag]

I don't know if I would believe that. I am pretty sure that the intakes are dyno tested, and the cold air intake makes around 1-2 hp more throughout the power band. Not saying they are lying, but, how on earth is the temp going to be the same outside as where the cone is on a short ram, it is one of the hottest parts of the bay? Non the less it has been dyno proven that cai makes a bit more power due to air temp.

[tran_nsx]

don't waste ur money on a short ram, yes its louder because the induction is closer to you. however; louder doesn't neccesarily equal power, and all ur getting in is hot air. there has been test where short ram intakes actually made less hp than the stock intakes, defeats the purpose of a performance mods wouldn't u think?

[kicker1_solo]

here's my integra with a short ram

my accord with cold air

As you can tell the cold air intake has piping that leads all the way down under the front bumper and that's where the filter sits, that way all the outside cool air hits it. Whereas the short ram has the filter sitting in the hot engine bay, sucking in all that hot air. The reason why cold air is better than hot is is because it's more dense which means that you can suck more of it into your engine, and the more air the better. So you will generally produce more power with a cold air intake, but in studies it has been proven that the cold air stops producing after like 7k or 7.5k (don't remember) RPM, and the short ram is a little more prevailing up after those high RPMs. I don't remember where I read that at but it was an actual AEM study that they used dynos and everything to test on. But overall the cold air intake (CAI) is more effecient compared to the short ram.


edit-sorry, I didn't read any replies until after I posted this. Sorry if I stepped over what someone already said, especially you scally with the dense air part.

[kpsycho]

sorry must of had you confused for someone else..

as far as the CAI vs. SRI have you guys ever felt your CAI after you get done running it gets pretty hot which defeats your whole it runs colder theory. if you get a direct rush of air directly where the filter sits yes thats better but if its still hidden in a fender not gonna make that big of a difference maybe a .25 to .5 hp woooo. if i where you i would get a cheap ebay intake with a good filter say k&n. mine is and have had no problems with it. oh and just to add i found this from a reputable person in which i respect their opinion.


i found that the underhood temps in the stock location are the same when you are moving, otherwise when at a stop it can rise 30-40F, then lowers back to ambient once you're moving again. so focus should still remain on intake diameter and length.

also remember CAI are more subject to evil puddles! if you live in a dry location go for an ebay CAI. if in a wet location get an ebay SRI. then get a good filter for both. now if you live in a CARB area get name brand just to get rid of the hassle.

[kicker1_solo]

oh boy, you believe that wretched water sucking rumor too?

[kpsycho]

ive seen it happen myself now i know it has to be a pretty deep puddle but it can happen. of course the one time i did see it happen the guy deserved it it was a big ass puddle he hit going really fast and actually spun the car around becuase he just hit it with the right front. if you drive smart then you dont have to worry about it but sometimes when it rains rather hard its difficult to see the bastard ass big ones.

[kicker1_solo]

the thing is that you have to have the whole filter submerged for it to actually suck in the water. I've had a CAI on my accord for a couple years and I've played in water before, we have floods here every year and I splash through every puddle I find cause it's just fun, it's really hard to hydrolock a motor. Possible, I'm not saying it isn't, but hard.

[tsugsr]

All this is thanks to www.Team-Integra.net

"Cliff Notes: the most important factor is not cold air. Instead, it's the diameter and length that determines powerband location...the worse thing you can do as a newb is choose one that's too small for your eventual peak power goal. Not much more to say than that..." Quoted from Michael Delaney on www.Team-integra.net...Not just another newb, he has LOTS of experience including time around the Realtime Racing crew.."Here's another "first" you may not have seen on the other boards: the temperature under the hood in an Integra when it is moving at speed versus the outside cold air: NO DIFFERENCE" another quote from Delaney just incase yall missed it while reading this thread .heres the link to the thread proving a CAI really doesnt help as much as everyone thinks:

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...&TopicID=42533

You might have to become a member to read that, Please do and read the intire post, and then continue on reading every other artical and intense learning thread on that web site before post, its not a bunch of newbs its real information!!!

[tran_nsx]

Originally Posted by tsugsr

All this is thanks to www.Team-Integra.net

"Cliff Notes: the most important factor is not cold air. Instead, it's the diameter and length that determines powerband location...the worse thing you can do as a newb is choose one that's too small for your eventual peak power goal. Not much more to say than that..." Quoted from Michael Delaney on www.Team-integra.net...Not just another newb, he has LOTS of experience including time around the Realtime Racing crew.."Here's another "first" you may not have seen on the other boards: the temperature under the hood in an Integra when it is moving at speed versus the outside cold air: NO DIFFERENCE" another quote from Delaney just incase yall missed it while reading this thread .heres the link to the thread proving a CAI really doesnt help as much as everyone thinks:

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...&TopicID=42533

You might have to become a member to read that, Please do and read the intire post, and then continue on reading every other artical and intense learning thread on that web site before post, its not a bunch of newbs its real information!!!

i beg to differ. i don't know who this micheal delaney is and i don't really care, but to believe in a theory that wasn't tested no matter how much experience that individual has is simply not credible. what im going to prove to you now is how this guy is wrong. i will be taking 3 important paragraphs from "honda/acura performance - sport compact car performance vol. 1" from the editors of sport compact car magazine who they also have a lot of experiences with cars. this will explain the intake theories, difference in ambient air throughout the test, and the difference in air temp during the test runs from the 3 intakes (stock, short ram, and cold air) in a 93 honda civic si.



"these two intakes represent two current theories on air intake systems that deal with filter placement. the r.s. akimoto intake system represents the shorter, underhood style of intakes. the system from aem positioned the air entry/filter assembly down in the fenderwell, where the air should be cooler. this placement also necessitated a much longer inlet tract length- something aem claims helps with torque prodution throughout the rpm powerband. we saw evidence of this in our previous test as well. both intakes had radiused inlets inside the filter and used k&n filter elements, though they were different shapes and configurations.---"



"while making the runs, we also took intake temperature measurements. the ambient temperature, according to our instrumentation, was 64 degrees during the series of tests. we were lucky enough that the ambient temperature never varied by more than two degrees between the first and last run, helping to eliminate heat as a possible variable for power.


our charge-air temperature probe was installed in each system prior to the back-to-back runs, and the results were pretty illuminating. since the r.s. akimoto system and stock air box both drew air from the engine compartment, it was not surprising the charge temps were within one degree of each other. the underhood mounted r.s. akimoto system did pretty well, as the inlet temperatures dropped down to just 24 degrees over ambient (or 88 degrees) once the car was up to speed. as far as air temp goes, the aem system was the clear winner, as the charge matched the ambient readings for the entire run. with a 64-degree ambient temperature, the aem system showed a 64-degree charge temperature."

a quick run down if anyone was some how lost, the aem had the same temp as the outside air of 64 degrees, whereas the short ram had a higher temp of 88 degress. the stock box was basically similar to the short ram.

also i just want to mention something, u don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that the temp in the engine bay will be hotter than the ambient air because what is the first obstacle outside air goes through before entering the engine bay? the radiator.....

[Crippy]

makes perfect sense to me tran_nsx ... how the hell is a SRI gonna pull in air the same temp as the CAI ?? even when the car is moving VERY fast , the engine bay still generates alot of heat right there where the SRI filter is sucking in at ... mean while the CAI is outside the car pretty much , so however the air is outside , thats how it will be sucked in from the CAI ... look at it like this , on a hot summer day just ride with your windows up and no ac going ... its gonna get hard to breathe pretty soon , now roll down your window and stick your head out and you will breath soooo much better , the same goes with the intakes ....

[tsugsr]

Obvisouly you didnt read any information on that link i gave you, or else you would have seen how knowlagble this Michael Delaney is, and you would have seen that these tests were done with multiple thermometors on the intake and hood of the vehicle while moving and stopped, they also have many dyno graphs to prove there point, so if you read what information that had been provided to you and not what a magazine said, which i bet they used a "butt dyno" and not a real dyno, you would see my point.

[tran_nsx]

Originally Posted by tsugsr

Obvisouly you didnt read any information on that link i gave you, or else you would have seen how knowlagble this Michael Delaney is, and you would have seen that these tests were done with multiple thermometors on the intake and hood of the vehicle while moving and stopped, they also have many dyno graphs to prove there point, so if you read what information that had been provided to you and not what a magazine said, which i bet they used a "butt dyno" and not a real dyno, you would see my point.

tell me something, why are they going to use a dyno to measure temp? u go ahead and believe that the air in the engine bay is the same as the outside air im just trying to point out some common sense into ur head. another thing, what is the difference between a bunch of guys writing info on a magazine and a bunch of guys writing info on a forum? nothing. for your information this wasn't a magazine either, its a book showing test after test after test of mods and explainations of how each works from suspension to lighting to turbocharging to wheels. so like i said believe what u want to believe but i bet most will agree with me.