Interesting find...

[justacruiser]

Originally Posted by Cbass

Honestly, if I saw myself seeing through the eyes of a fanatical right wing American, I'd be tempted to gouge them out for the good of mankind.

Seriously, the democrats are right of centre to the rest of the western world, and the republicans are a whole different story.

As in the Democrats are conservative compared to the rest of the world? Damn... maybe we should have caused a nuclear war and wiped the planet out, better death by war then to be roboticized into a walking talking rectum, (which spews out words and ideas that amount to the same thing a real rectum pushes out), by liberals. Liberal mindsets are going to be the downfall of society eventually. Pretty soon it's going to be 'a brave new world' and 'Fahrenheit 451' turned reality thanks to them.

[2strokebloke]

Err, um, who's talking about which party being walking rectums and restricting liberty? This might be a case of the pot calling the kettle black (or the oregano green)
While the democrats have made stupid laws (no smoking in New York, and other cities) they're not the only party doing their darndest to destroy America's liberties.
Conservatives, they don't want abortion, they don't want gay marriage - I'm never going to have an abortion, or marry a guy, but these are liberties. But I'm never going to smoke in new york either, and that it's illegal bothers me as well.
Conservatives disslike people with differing opinions, or values. They don't want people to be different than them, it makes them uncomfortable. as you wrote, you'd rather that everybody on earth be dead, than hold an opinion opposite of yours.
Don't criticize the other side for having the exact same problems as your own, and try to put them down for it.

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

Conservatives disslike people with differing opinions, or values. They don't want people to be different than them, it makes them uncomfortable.

Sounds like Democrats to me.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by justacruiser

As in the Democrats are conservative compared to the rest of the world? Damn... maybe we should have caused a nuclear war and wiped the planet out, better death by war then to be roboticized into a walking talking rectum, (which spews out words and ideas that amount to the same thing a real rectum pushes out), by liberals. Liberal mindsets are going to be the downfall of society eventually. Pretty soon it's going to be 'a brave new world' and 'Fahrenheit 451' turned reality thanks to them.

Actually, while the rest of the world seems to be making social progress, the US seems to be socially regressing, the power is returning to the wealthy and the politically minded, the gap between the rich and the poor is steadily widening again, education is going the way of the dodo, and all the American people can find to do are bicker endlessly about who's republican and who's a democrat, and why the other guy is wrong.

Maybe I just have a jaundiced eye, being a non American who is exposed to all forms of American culture, has been dating an American for quite some time, and have spent a consideral portion of the last twelve months in the US.

[TexasF355F1]

Originally Posted by Cbass

Actually, while the rest of the world seems to be making social progress, the US seems to be socially regressing, the power is returning to the wealthy and the politically minded, the gap between the rich and the poor is steadily widening again, education is going the way of the dodo, and all the American people can find to do are bicker endlessly about who's republican and who's a democrat, and why the other guy is wrong.

Maybe I just have a jaundiced eye, being a non American who is exposed to all forms of American culture, have been dating an American for quite some time, and have spent a consideral portion of the last twelve months in the US.

You kind of did hit the nail on the head. I went to public school my entire life, but faired fine. But I was also lucky enough to have teachers that affected me in a postive light along the way. I can tell you each teacher and why I view them as a good educator and/or person to admire. But I've been blessed with good parents/family/friends and two things I feel are very key in my life common sense/logical thinkning and honesty.

As far as the gap between the rich and poor the problem which I've said numerous times is laziness and welfare. The laziness is passed from parent to child. The parent(s) shows little if no interest in the childs life and therefore leads to criminal mischief. Laziness also runs into the marriage. Couples are too quick to hollar divorce, than seek counseling.

By the way CBass or any other's outside the U.S., does Europe and other continents/countries have a Welfare type system? Never really knew if they did or not. If so how does it compare/differ from our very very flawed system?

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

As far as the gap between the rich and poor the problem which I've said numerous times is laziness and welfare. The laziness is passed from parent to child. The parent(s) shows little if no interest in the childs life and therefore leads to criminal mischief. Laziness also runs into the marriage. Couples are too quick to hollar divorce, than seek counseling.

What are you? A social engineer? I understand that there is a lot of common sense behind your words, and I agree somewhat. Just pay attention where it starts to stereotype people.

Also, I was a Corrections Officer. You'd be surprised how many of the inmates I have dealt with came from respectable, 2-parent families.

Lastly, it's easy to call judgement from where you are sitting, but unless you can claim to have "been there" so to speak, I would say you have no right to claim that you know how anybody else thinks or reacts.

[lazysmurff]

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

As far as the gap between the rich and poor the problem which I've said numerous times is laziness and welfare. The laziness is passed from parent to child. The parent(s) shows little if no interest in the childs life and therefore leads to criminal mischief. Laziness also runs into the marriage. Couples are too quick to hollar divorce, than seek counseling.

normally, i respect the insight of your posts a great deal, but im going to have to call you on this one.

[rant]
the gap between the rich and the poor is perpetuated by many things, and while laziness might be one of them, it is not "the one". the availability of a job for every willing and able american is one of the greatest myths of American culture. in fact, ill point to myself as an example. I am a hard working, white, middle class, male. arguebly the best demographic for getting a job, especially in central arkansas. I have given my resume to no less than 30 people and filled out over 100 application in the past two months (including Wal Mart, which is HUGE because i despise them in every way possible, but im depserate for work) and i remain unemployed. Where is this great american work force that i can step into?

actually the gap is being perpetuated by capitalism. welcome to america. it is built into the system that we will have the extremely poor and the extremely rich. its part of the price we pay for "business freedom". this, of course, isnt helped when the government gives huge tax breaks to the upper crust of society, and 60% of corporations continue to not have to pay any taxes at all.

i also suggest you do a search on "culture of poverty" and investigate how dibiliting poverty is to the personal pysche and how poverty perpetuates poverty, not because of laziness, but because of how utterly overwhelming it is.
[/rant]

also, it is not the government, or any particular parties, fault that our freedoms are eroding. each side has done its share of digging away at the foundations of this nation. but the blame lies in the populace for apathetically accepting what is happening. lets keep in mind that if do not give our support to those inpower, the system is built so that they will no longer be in power. but here we are blindly backing a corrupt system, arguing over what party did what.

[Cbass]

Lazysmurff, I don't think I could have said it better myself.

Jason, I can't think of a western nation that does not have a welfare system, or some form of social security net to protect those without work.

In my province, we have a fairly good welfare system, albeit underfunded. A single man or women gets a set amount, it's a tad over $500 a month I think, parents get more, couples living together get less, etc. Part of the system is a job initiative to get those people employed, which I applaud.

Unfortunately, there aren't enough jobs to go around, and welfare only gives you the bare minimum you need to scrape by. It does not afford enough to move to another region and seek employment...

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

You kind of did hit the nail on the head. I went to public school my entire life, but faired fine. But I was also lucky enough to have teachers that affected me in a postive light along the way. I can tell you each teacher and why I view them as a good educator and/or person to admire. But I've been blessed with good parents/family/friends and two things I feel are very key in my life common sense/logical thinkning and honesty.

As far as the gap between the rich and poor the problem which I've said numerous times is laziness and welfare. The laziness is passed from parent to child. The parent(s) shows little if no interest in the childs life and therefore leads to criminal mischief. Laziness also runs into the marriage. Couples are too quick to hollar divorce, than seek counseling.

Well said. As someone who dealt with Low Income and Section 8 residents (stop in www.hud.gov to learn more ) for more then a decade I can say that is the absolute truth! A large portion (over 80%)of those residents recieve welfare and other goverment handouts. SSI, SS, HAP, UAP, etc. The number of people who actually need help is fairly small. The number of lazy people just laying around waiting on their handout it to damn high.

Not only are their people on welfare who don't belong and are sucking up my tax money, there are many administrators skimming off the top as well. The amount of money wasted on fraud and laziness is phenomenal. If it wouldn't cost me my job (on the off chance certain people were to see this) I could name names and places of it right now.

[Cbass]

How about some numbers to back up those claims? Real dollar figures, to show exactly how much the system costs, and a definition of who really needs the support, and some demographics to support your claim of an 80/20% split.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

I didn't thoroughly read through that. But wasn't it her first husband that actually owned Heinz and she just inherited a part of it as part of the divorce?

Going back to the second post in this thread...

You're damn right you didn't read the article, if you consider death a divorce then that's one hell of a settlement she got!

[Raz_Kaz]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Well said. As someone who dealt with Low Income and Section 8 residents (stop in www.hud.gov to learn more ) for more then a decade I can say that is the absolute truth! A large portion (over 80%)of those residents recieve welfare and other goverment handouts. SSI, SS, HAP, UAP, etc. The number of people who actually need help is fairly small. The number of lazy people just laying around waiting on their handout it to damn high.

Not only are their people on welfare who don't belong and are sucking up my tax money, there are many administrators skimming off the top as well. The amount of money wasted on fraud and laziness is phenomenal. If it wouldn't cost me my job (on the off chance certain people were to see this) I could name names and places of it right now.

If it werent for welfare fraud then there wouldn't be much government jobs trakcing down who is using the money wisely, and I am not sure of other areas, but with welfare checks comes manidtory classes that one must take to improve their job skills or aquire new ones. It was a good idea this welfare, but liek everything, there will be people who try and take advantage of the system

[YogsVR4]

The hard part of showing you the values for the number of people recieving welfare is that its from actual data. I am not comfortable reveiling which housing authorities I compiled it from. Lets suffice it to say you can figure it out by stopping by http://www.emphasysworld.com/sub/about.asp and paying close attention to the line that says "Our software is used to manage over 1.1 million of the 2.8 million HUD subsidized units across the nation." And, we have a copy of the data from all those authorities inhouse (called EIT sites) for various reasons. If 40% of the housing units isn't a good sampling - then I don't know what is.

If you'd like to know the data being tracked. Take a look at http://www.hudclips.org/sub_nonhud/h...orms/50058.pdf and see the information that is being tracked on those housing units. The families, income, assets etc.


Now remember, that 1.1 is only for the HUD sponsered subisdy. There are state programs and local programs (county and city leve) that have much more. We don't have a large portion of the state agencies - yet.

[TexasF355F1]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

What are you? A social engineer? I understand that there is a lot of common sense behind your words, and I agree somewhat. Just pay attention where it starts to stereotype people.

Also, I was a Corrections Officer. You'd be surprised how many of the inmates I have dealt with came from respectable, 2-parent families.

Lastly, it's easy to call judgement from where you are sitting, but unless you can claim to have "been there" so to speak, I would say you have no right to claim that you know how anybody else thinks or reacts.

You're right. I wasn't intentionally trying to stereotype. Because I know that people stray even given the best of everything. Which can also be a bad thing. I'm sure there are a number of rich kids or who are now adults out there that didn't go to college and think the money will be there forever.

Originally Posted by freakray

Going back to the second post in this thread...

You're damn right you didn't read the article, if you consider death a divorce then that's one hell of a settlement she got!

I was just posing a question. You could have just said he had died and that's how she inherited the corp.

And CBass thanks for answering my question on welfare of other countries.

[justacruiser]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

Err, um, who's talking about which party being walking rectums and restricting liberty? This might be a case of the pot calling the kettle black (or the oregano green)
While the democrats have made stupid laws (no smoking in New York, and other cities) they're not the only party doing their darndest to destroy America's liberties.
Conservatives, they don't want abortion, they don't want gay marriage - I'm never going to have an abortion, or marry a guy, but these are liberties. But I'm never going to smoke in new york either, and that it's illegal bothers me as well.
Conservatives disslike people with differing opinions, or values. They don't want people to be different than them, it makes them uncomfortable. as you wrote, you'd rather that everybody on earth be dead, than hold an opinion opposite of yours.
Don't criticize the other side for having the exact same problems as your own, and try to put them down for it.

Abortion is an issue which could be debated into the ground, I personally don't consider killing children a 'liberty', apparently the bra-burners do though, so since it became a 'struggle for freedom' it suddenly stopped being a moral issue and became a 'liberty' issue, which in today’s society closes minds, (and mouths), instantly.

As for the taking of our rights, It'll probably end up like a mix of Demolition man and brave new world actually, they'll take away the right to eat what you want and do what you want, simply because you might 'hurt yourself' or because it's 'unhealthy' and they think they're doing you a favor.

Then on the other hand, there's the liberals fighting for stem cell and genetic research, all in the name of 'helping people', abortion 'rights', all kinds of birth controls and you can pretty much name any type of sexual orientation or deviance that they'll accept or even push. Sex education at a very young age...demanding more socialistic government programs, demanding the legalization of drugs… etc. The so-called elimination of 'classes', but in fact, the creation of classes which are dependant on the government to support them...except the elite ones that is, (government workers, politicians).... Sound familiar? Brave new world... here we come. With liberals at the helm, it's only a matter of time, and I'm seeing more and more liberal bullshit being spoon-fed to people who accept it as gospel every year, month, week, day. It's disgusting. If you think that there's no way any liberal leaders would let it go to that extreme, just remember, liberals are supposedly the ones more open to change here, so why would they have any reason to protest it? They're the ones introducing it.