2000 Intrigue engine dies

[fhofstra]

Hello forum readers -
My Intrigue is a 2000 GLS, 3.5L, with 145,000 miles, bought 3 years ago with 70,000 miles on it. It has been a great car for the 75,000 miles that I have owned it.
I am living with an occaisional hard upshift (P0742 TCC circuit stuck "on" DTC), and don't think it is related to the present problem, but thought I should mention it as part of the background data.
A few weeks ago, the engine started dying occaisionally. Could be at idle, or at a steady 45 mph. Sometimes it is a very quiet shutdown; my first clue will be that the car is coasting with the tach at zero. Other times, I can feel the engine stumble a bit, the tach and speedometer needles jump wildly from zero to normal and back, the SES (MIL) lamp lights (but only temporarily - it never stays on so I can read the code). In one case, the SES lamp flashed 3 or 4 times at about once per second. After these episodes, the engine restarts OK, and will either run fine or immediately die again. If it dies, yet another restart (or two) will result in normal running once again. And everything is smooth and quiet until the next time - a day or two or three later. The problem does not seem related to a cold engine - most or all of these events have been on the road with the engine at least warm, and sometimes at full operating temperature. When not showing this problem, the engine runs great.
My new Innova 3110 scanner cannot see any DTC codes, since the SES / MIL lamp is not set. It indicates "no codes in the computer". I am now leaving it permanently connected in hopes of catching a DTC code, should it be able to do so, if the SES light does flash on.
I have learned a lot from this forum, and hope that some of you will have some ideas. I would be grateful for any suggestions.
Speaking of codes...I am surprised that something of this severity would not result in any DTCs being set. Would a shop with one of those $5000 scan tools be able to read codes that my 3110 cannot? In other words, does my 3110 read only a "subset" of the car's DTCs? I have the official two-volume set of manuals from Helm. They refer to "PCM history" DTC codes. Are these codes that would be unavailable to my 3110, but would be available to the more complex scan tools?
Again, thanks for any help with this.

[maxwedge]

Welcome to AF. This type of problem most likely won't set any code, could be a bad ground, bad ign switch or a bad connection that feeds the pcm and some ign powered accessories, very tough to find this problem try and see if any ign only accessories quit with the stalling. Look at the ign switch connector see if there are signs of overheating also. Good Luck.

[panzer dragoon]

your GM dealer with a Tech2 may be the best way to go on something like this. =That's what these diagnostic machines are for.

this sounds like a CKP sensor thing. Exactly when does the engine die out, right above 1/4 on the thermostat? If the CKP has a bad sensor, the engine rpm will drop ~500rpm causing a stall while it switches then goes back. Watch the engine temp when it gets close to 1/4, and watch for the blip in rpms = CKP sensor.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...ght=crankshaft

Remember: You can restart in neutral also (not just park).

[maxwedge]

Originally Posted by panzer dragoon

your GM dealer with a Tech2 may be the best way to go on something like this. =That's what these diagnostic machines are for.

this sounds like a CKP sensor thing. Exactly when does the engine die out, right above 1/4 on the thermostat? If the CKP has a bad sensor, the engine rpm will drop ~500rpm causing a stall while it switches then goes back. Watch the engine temp when it gets close to 1/4, and watch for the blip in rpms = CKP sensor.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...ght=crankshaft

CKP would be a good direction, it just doesn't explain the speedo.

[fhofstra]

Maxwedge and Panzer dragoon -
Thanks for your suggestions. I have something for you both. Maxwedge mentioned an overheating ignition switch. It made me recall that I could have sworn I smelled something hot after one of these episodes. Now just have to read my manuals to find out how to get at the switch. Not too tough, I hope.
For Panzer dragoon...I had said I was going to try to monitor the car with my Equus 3110 code reader, while on the road. It relinks itself every 15-20 seconds, at least most of the time. Yesterday I glanced at it (on the road), and it said P0018. That's one of the CKP sensor error codes. Car continued to run fine. I don't know why neither the PCM computer nor the 3110 saved the code (do you???) but I did see it on the LCD screen, briefly. I assume that is significant, even though not stored (???).
Regarding temperature, I've been paying attention as the car warms, but no problems so far at 1/4 temp or anywhere else. I'm pretty sure the car is usually up to normal temp on most of these episodes, although a few times, it was either just started (cold) or still warming. I will continue to monitor it.
If I find a burned ignition switch, I will replace it. Depending on what I find with the switch and whether I replace it, I assume it may be worth replacing the CKP sensor also. If it comes to flipping a coin on replacing the ignition switch (if not burned) or the CKP sensor, any thought on which to replace first? Any "best place" for parts? I see RockAuto is mentioned on the forum. Maybe the dealer is required for the switch?
I may also try a "Tech2" level diagnostic from dealer or shop. I infer from Panzer dragoon that there may be helpful data hidden in the PCM that my little 3110 code reader cannot access. Would the dealer necessarily be better than a good shop? I've heard that Precision Tune is OK, and try to avoid dealers, but will trek there if you think the genuine GM/Olds is likely to be better.
I will let you know what I find. And thanks much for your suggestions.

[crashnburn]

I would replace the CKP sensor & then take it to the dealer to scan. There is a relearning produre that you should do. If you are going to pay them the $80 to hook it up. You should just have the do the relearn it. The ckp sensor is a common thing on these. I think the part goes for around $70 too. Try gmpartsdirect.com too it might be cheaper then. The wife car kept dying & I could not wait any longer for the part. good luck.

John

[panzer dragoon]

I would take the car to GM and have it scanned by the Tech2. The faulty ignition switch (or other) should come up.

The CKP relearn procedure is not necessary (I didn't use it). A bad CKP sensor will get worse and worse = expect to eventually see codes. = I don't think it's a CKP problem you have.

[fhofstra]

For the last week, the car has run great; the problem hasn't shown up. But I've been keeping my Equus 3130 code reader connected, and it occaisionally shows codes, mostly P0001 and P0003 (fuel volume regulator control circuit open / low). Codes are never stored though - they are ALWAYS gone on the next automatic re-link of the code reader to the car, which happens every 30 seconds or so. Often, the auto re-link fails, and I have to manually press the re-link button.
What I find puzzling is that my official 2000 Intrigue manuals from Helm do not list these DTCs in their DTC list. I also can't find any info on these DTCs off the web, except for the definition. The 3130 defines them also. Does anybody have any information about these codes and the car systems and components associated with them? Maybe something to do with fuel pressure? Annoying when the manuals don't say anything.
Also, several of you suggested the dealer with his Tech2 gear. I'm willing, it will cost $96 for starters, but I'm just wondering whether there is any point in it if the car is not exhibiting the problem? Can they find potentially useful data in there if the problem is not showing itself? For certain, there are no codes in the car, unless they can see codes the 3110 cannot. Thanks.

[panzer dragoon]

the ODB2 codes:

http://service.gm.com/gmspo/mode6/

I would live with it until it gets worse. Get used to shifting into neutral for restarting the car (not so bad if it's only once a month). Getting the car scanned by the Tech2 would make sense also, but if nothing comes up I would just live with the problem for now.

Don't spend money on parts you may not need.